Continued quest for further understanding

[Nero]

I know I should understand this by now as long as I've been here but here goes.

Since your both male and female, does that mean I can expect from you what I would from a typical male?
I mean if you take a typical male with all his posturing and machismo and a typical female with all her femininity and put them together, you get an androgyne?

Cause that's basically how I am though my identity is male - I exhibit a lot of stereotypical male traits but some pretty femme ones as well.
I definitely think like a male but sometimes express it in femme ways.

So, is that how you experience it?

PS, Not asking if I'm androgyne. I'm 100% man. Just wondering if I'm understanding where you're coming from.

I'm just really trying to understand how this works.

I have a horrible confession to make. With some of you with whom I talk a lot, I often find myself asking the question 'is sie coming at this from a man's perspective or a woman's'?
Hence, this question.

[Shana A]

Since your both male and female, does that mean I can expect from you what I would from a typical male?
I mean if you take a typical male with all his posturing and machismo and a typical female with all her femininity and put them together, you get an androgyne?

Cause that's basically how I am though my identity is male - I exhibit a lot of stereotypical male traits but some pretty femme ones as well.
I definitely think like a male but sometimes express it in femme ways.

So, is that how you experience it?

I consider myself neither male or female, as opposed to being a mix of the two, so I don't experience it this way. Throughout my life, I've often been considered "one of the girls", even without disclosing my status. Likewise, I often have no clue as to how to relate to men. I especially don't relate well to people who are stereotypical of either binary gender.

I have a horrible confession to make. With some of you with whom I talk a lot, I often find myself asking the question 'is sie coming at this from a man's perspective or a woman's'?
Hence, this question.

My perspective is not gendered, it's simply Z's queer take on things. If one sees woman or man in there, I suppose I'm susceptible to societal mores as much as anyone.

Z

[Jaimey]

I'm with Z on this one.  I'm not male or female.  I'm just me.  I don't relate to women or men very well, although, like Z (but opposite), I've always been one of the guys, without ever saying anything about my identity (even before I knew my identity).

*hugs for Nero*  I feel like it's been a while! 

[VeryGnawty]

I mean if you take a typical male with all his posturing and machismo and a typical female with all her femininity and put them together, you get an androgyne?

That's me in a nutshell.  I like to exercise all macho, but in a way that is very gracefull and dextrous.  I like to sit cross-legged like a girl, but with a devil may care attitude like a guy.

Most of my behaviors are equally masculine and feminine simultaneously.  For this reason, people rarely notice anything unusual about me (except for kids, kids always ask questions).  Most people only see what they want to see.  The people who want to see me as a guy see how strong I am.  The people who want to see as sensitive, call me sweet.  The people who want to see all sides, comment on how balanced I am.  And the people who don't give a damn, they merely don't give a damn.

It's interesting sometimes how some people treat me like a guy, and other people do not.

[Constance]

Hail, Nero.

Like my sig file says, I feel I'm not one or the other, but something in between. That said, there are days when I feel like I might be more one than the other. But, that's just me.

[tekla]

I see far too many examples in everyday life of people who don't follow those stereotypes to think along those lines.  Other than some obvious clothing deals, I think the molds are being broken far more than they are being supported anymore.

[Nicky]

I guess my answer would be kind of like Z's.

I guess I am capable of 'male posturing' and probably do on occasion, but I don't really feel manly when I do it (more likely I just feel stupid and awkward). Kind of like Z said, I have Nicky traits which I express in a Nick kind of way. I kind of see it just as me expressing part of my androgyne self which I feel is distinctly feminine inside contrasting to my male sex. I think it is easy to perceive most things not male as kind of feminine and vis versa. Really I think you have to remove male and female from the picture.

It has never been about traits for me, more about not feeling any barriers to what I am and am not allowed to do as a 'man' or a 'woman'. Those rules don't apply, though unfortunately I have internalised some of them. I come from that perspective. I come at things from the perspective of someone outside male and female gender. I think that is the key. Sometimes my perspective could be seen as being very masculine or feminine but I don't start in those places.

Not sure if this all makes sense. Still trying to sort through it in my own head. I'm trying decide whether I actually have a man's or woman's perspective. I think I can sometimes look at things from those angles, but they are not my own.

[Constance]

Not sure if this all makes sense. Still trying to sort through it in my own head. I'm trying decide whether I actually have a man's or woman's perspective. I think I can sometimes look at things from those angles, but they are not my own.

This rings true for me, too.

I've got Dave's perspective, because that's my name. Is Dave's perspective male, female, or both? I don't know if I can really answer that yet.

[Pica Pica]

I'm like Z and the rest, it doesn't really feel like both, that's just a shorthand way of explaining, it is more blancmangey than that.

PS, Not asking if I'm androgyne. I'm 100% man.

I could not make that claim from either perspective.

'is sie coming at this from a man's perspective or a woman's'?

an androgyne's.

Tekla is right, most people bend gender rules anyway, it's just they still have that core knowledge of being male or female. Just don't have that core knowledge is all.

[Nero]

I'm like Z and the rest, it doesn't really feel like both, that's just a shorthand way of explaining, it is more blancmangey than that.

PS, Not asking if I'm androgyne. I'm 100% man.

I could not make that claim from either perspective.

'is sie coming at this from a man's perspective or a woman's'?

an androgyne's.

Tekla is right, most people bend gender rules anyway, it's just they still have that core knowledge of being male or female. Just don't have that core knowledge is all.

so you're not a man at all? you're not half man?

[Nicky]

I don't consider myself a man at all, not even a little bit.

[Pica Pica]

but not a woman either...

I mean, what is man?

[Nero]

but not a woman either...

I mean, what is man?

well... this is going to come off sexist and i really don't mean it too, but to me whether one is a man or not is the real measure.

[Pica Pica]

well... this is going to come off sexist and i really don't mean it too, but to me whether one is a man or not is the real measure.

you would, you're a man

[Nicky]

but not a woman either...

I mean, what is man?

well... this is going to come off sexist and i really don't mean it too, but to me whether one is a man or not is the real measure.

Maybe this is true if you are a man?

[Nero]

well... this is going to come off sexist and i really don't mean it too, but to me whether one is a man or not is the real measure.

you would, you're a man

you betcha.

[tekla]

but to me whether one is a man or not is the real measure.

defined how, merely physical stuff, or like that whole 'being a man' deal, protecting, earning, providing and all that?  Or just what do you mean?

[Nero]

but to me whether one is a man or not is the real measure.

defined how, merely physical stuff, or like that whole 'being a man' deal, protecting, earning, providing and all that?  Or just what do you mean?

the latter. i don't have the physical stuff.

[Pica Pica]

now i have the physical stuff, and i protect those i love and care for, i provide enough for myself but I still don't see myself as a man. I spose it's because I don't set much importance in those things as much as I do in connections and creations and imagining stuff, as long as i provide enough to survive.

[Nero]

guess the point i'm trying to very clumsily get to is does an androgyne alternate between the male and female perspective?