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Trying to be supportive--please help me understand

Started by momoftrans, January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM

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Jessie_Heart

 Dear Momoftrans

I know in my case the idea about being close to my mom had nothing to do with me being trans my mother wasn't a part of my life till i was about 8 years old and she wasn't much involved after that. my mother isn't a bad person she just had children at a very young age and she had many problems of her own. I can say that I wish that my mom would have been there for me to talk to and I wish she could show the kind of support you are showing for your daughter.

I really have no direct suggestions on how to deal with this within your family but first and foremost I would say talking to your daughter is the best way to start and you could decied together what the next steps should be. As far as your self blame goes all I can say is that you have raised a child who is evidentally a very self aware individual who knows who she really is and the idea of "blaming yourself" in some ways can cast an idea that there is thought that there is something wrong with her that needs blamed on someone. Instead of looking for blame in my humble opinion it may make her feel so much better if you tried to help her celerbrate her individuality and be proud that you have raised such a self aware child.

As a parent myself I know that we fear for our childrens future at all times and we want to protect them from all the pain and strife they may face in the world unfortunately we can not always protect them from the world but we can let them know that we will always do whatever we can to help them cope with the pain they will face and we hope that can be enough!
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Kimberly

First, and foremost. I respect you greatly for trying to learn about this condition.

Second, well...
Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
The lastest theory I read...
I certainly hope that theory was by someone NOT identifying as transsexual because frankly ... it's not even close to what I understand of this condition.

So, to explain as I understand it, simply I believe this to be akin to an intesex condition, specifically that the M2F's (or F2M for that matter) brain (structure?) Differs from that of a "normal" boy or girl. Specifically in my case I was born with a seemingly normal male body. I lived a seemingly normal male life. (simplified granted) but, in reality, I was doing my best to "do what boys do", not because it was natural but because it was expected. (an some of it I never could get right, sadly); Normal behavior was not "natural" to me because I was a girl, pretending to be a boy and indeed believing herself to BE a boy. This ended up causing me a great deal of emotional pain in my life to put it simply. Note, no on is at fault for this, not a single soul.. CERTAINLY NOT my mother nor father (with out their love I would have suicided age 17 or so because I could not deal with this (to my view) misshapen body.)

oh, to answer your inquiry, I've always been closer to my father, and I still am.

I would like to comment that I am saddened by your child's behavior but to explain myself and my behavior in an attempt to perhaps explain a bit. I had an anger problem previously. Specifically basically over stressed induced I suppose. But I was always fairly close to .. harsh action. This said, never was this directed at my parents (as again they are why I am alive still and I love and respect them more than words can convey.) but this anger did find unfortunate outlets. (Not quite a tantrum so much but very much single-minded accomplishing of some goal, and if that meant ripping the house apart then so be it. ... A leave of one's senses as it were. Certainly not things I am proud of by any means.) Mostly it manifested in me throwing things in anger.


So, anyway I can assure you that me being a girl born in a boy suit is not, to the best of my understanding, the fault of my mother nor father (nor anyone else.)

I hope this is of some value. Best of luck...
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Buffy

Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
My son recently told me he is a transgender.  I am trying so hard to do and say the right things but (although I'm sure he doesn't realize it) I'm so depressed and scared for him and his future that I can barely function.  He is 18 years old and he is very rude and disrespectful to me although I have always been a loving mother to him.


Thats all that matters, remain that loving Mom no matter what happens.

Please dont try to understand why or how transsexualism happens, not even the medical profession can do that, just accept that this is something that exists and has to be treated.

My own Mother and Father disowned me as my Father really thought it was partly his fault. There is no blame, just an overwhelming need for continued love, support and acceptance of your Son.

Rebecca
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Sandy

Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
My son recently told me he is a transgender.  I am trying so hard to do and say the right things but (although I'm sure he doesn't realize it) I'm so depressed and scared for him and his future that I can barely function.  He is 18 years old and he is very rude and disrespectful to me although I have always been a loving mother to him.

I've been reading all I can about ->-bleeped-<-, etc. but the more I learn, the more confused I get.  The lastest theory I read was that MtF transgenders identify too closely to their mother and have a distant relationship with their father and that contributes to their wanting to be like their mother.  (something like that) This strikes me a bit too simplistic but I have to admit that it fits our family dynamic.

Please don't take offense to this but I have an overwhelming guilt that somehow I contributed by being too close to my son.  (and he will have to struggle with this because of his parents)  Would some of you (MtF) mind telling if you were close to your mother but not your dad?

Thank you!  Just trying to understand.
The whole strong mother/weak father issue has been clinically shown time and again to be false.

No one really knows the cause of transsexuality.  All believe that it is in the brain while in the fetus is developing.

We are born this way, we do not contract transsexuality like the common cold.  Think about it, when did you decide that you were straight?  Obviously you never did.  It is something you always knew.  It is the same with transsexuals.  Most of us "know" it from our youngest days.  You'll see that here in many of our discussions online.

Your love and support will help you and your child go through the rocky road to help them come to terms with the issues and to get proper help.  Take your child to a doctor and a therapist to help identify all the issues.

The rudeness and disrespect may be a function of feeling lonely or cut off.  It is quite normal to feel isolated and that you are the only one.  As they go through therapy the relationship may become less strained as they learn that they aren't the only one and they you are really trying to help them and are there for them.

Please, get help for yourself and for your child.  This isn't an easy issue.  But it can be dealt with.

Also have them come to this forum.  Have them learn that they aren't the only one and that there are others who not only survive, but thrive with this "blessing inside a curse".

And do not be afraid to ask questions.  That is the only way to learn.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
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Jay

Quote from: Nero on January 26, 2009, 10:43:17 AM
I think this is a 'chicken or egg' situation. Are mtfs transsexual because they were closer to their moms?
Or were mtfs closer to their moms because they were transsexual (girls)?

Very True.

He is probably agressive and angry as he is a teenager.

I dont believe we are who we are because of our parents relationships with us. 


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mickie88

all i can add to this wonderful advice is, i was NEVER close to my maternal parent, because of the way i was treated by her growing up i tell people i don't have a mother because tbh, she was NEVER very motherly to me. until i got married and moved out of town she has always had her nose in our business trying to control our lives. she doesn't see her grandkids because of it. we have a newborn son and as far as i know, she knows nothing about him, and i could really care less if she does. my kids seriously do NOT miss her and NEITHER does my wife.
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Annwyn

I haven't even heard back from momoftrans but perhaps she's still on here reading some of these messages.

20 year old, MtF, pre-op.
I went from this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/PIC_0011.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/toniatlanta004.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/stuff/3-16-071.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/stuff/PIC_0005.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/stuff/PIC_0010.jpg

To this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/Annwyn/DSC00068.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/Annwyn/DSC00086.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/7/l_f74800c2cf844ed3bed2f1ddcfbe06c8.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/23/l_62cbf777dbb74d08964abdce7a670d18.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/59/l_cc57557b876d4590a94e3d5ce1062b57.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/47/l_3f5eeac6d3c34c59b1b0ffd43e73392f.jpg


The changes happen.  Just like that.  You won't even recognise your kid a few years after she's started unless you're watching it happen.  Dramatic, intense, years from now breath taking, you'll be watching her break out of a shell she's lived in her entire life to start EXPRESSING herself, moving her own course in life.  It won't be just in looks, but in attitude.  Up until. now, whatever she does, what's it for?  After she feels she's becoming herself, every single thing she does will be filled with the motivation that she's investing into herself to affirm her identity and make way to a brighter future.  work, college, relationships, etc, all the things a parent worries about, she'll get figured out in a heart beat.

My parents kicked me out at 15 years old for trying.
It's been 5 years and I still wonder what I'd be like if they'd supported me.  Being out on my own so early taught me a lot of things, and I've finally settled down with a stable job and a good class schedule for college: WITHOUT THEM.
I'll never speak to my parents again, and I'll despise them for the rest of my life.
You can't tell your son you love him for his entire life, only to withdraw that love as he becomes she, as she changes to someone you're not comfortable with.  Your love shouldn't be subjective to the simplistic choices she makes for herself.

She wants that love, badly.  She wants that support.

It will happen regardless.  It will happen, a tidal wave coming over her life.  Even if you don't support it, don't stop it.  Get her out into college, teach her about work and jobs and money, and then let her loose and see what she decides to do.

And yes, it is your fault.

Regardless if you contributed to the genes required, or the circumstances as she grew up, somewhere along the way she picked it up and it was either from those who raised her or gave birth to her, or most likely BOTH.

That established, it's not a bad thing.  It's just not normal.  Sure you'd like to have your SON doing HIS thing, getting a trophy wife and seeing his success making you happy.

Well, if my parents could see me now and get over that I was a chick, they'd see a 20 year old with her own house and an undergrad degree, shopping around for a grad school so 3 years from now she'd be a doctor.  They'd see someone well in control of her morality, emotions, and someone who's cast iron in that she's got the maturity to weather just about anything life throws at her: all at 20 years old.
What would they have liked to seen?  A 20 year old Marine ready to die for his country, politically blind to republican issues only and getting some poor woman pregnant every 10 months for a decade.

I think I've done better for myself than what they were expecting.  They'll never be around to see it though.  Do not let yourself make that same mistake.

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Sasha2

Hi,
I am a mom of a FTM trans who found out 9 months ago and I'm still bewildered. I am depressed, sad, confused! When I first found out I cried for days and looked everywhere for explanations and for support. My child treats us (my husband and I) rudely as well. We do everything for thbis child. She/He wants me to use the He pronoun, but I just CANT!!!! It is killing me to see her turn into a male. She is now on testosterone shots (which I administer, I'm a nurse) she goes to an Endocrinologist and a psychiatrist on a regular basis. I don't know what more to do except get up everyday and remember to breathe! I hope that you find more help than I have because there are days when I feel like I'm all alone out here.

Sasha

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Holly-chan

#28
Momoftrans, I can only hope that when I tell my mother she's as supportive and curious as you are!
I was always introverted as a child and preferred to be by myself playing with my legos, building little cities with people and basically playing analouge "Sims" with them. But I was indeed closer to my mother as a child. That was mainly because my father was in the military and died when I was 13, leaving my mother and I alone with my two brothers. Having to take the "father" role in the house was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, especially when I preferred to think of myself as more of a second mother than a "father".

Like everyone else has said, there isn't anything You did to make your daughter the way she is, she's just her and there's not much else that can be said about her. I am much the same way.

Best of luck with your daughter and I hope everything works out well for the two of you!
~holly
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Jessie_Heart

Quote from: Sasha2 on January 27, 2009, 01:14:35 PM
Hi,
I am a mom of a FTM trans who found out 9 months ago and I'm still bewildered. I am depressed, sad, confused! When I first found out I cried for days and looked everywhere for explanations and for support. My child treats us (my husband and I) rudely as well. We do everything for thbis child. She/He wants me to use the He pronoun, but I just CANT!!!! It is killing me to see her turn into a male. She is now on testosterone shots (which I administer, I'm a nurse) she goes to an Endocrinologist and a psychiatrist on a regular basis. I don't know what more to do except get up everyday and remember to breathe! I hope that you find more help than I have because there are days when I feel like I'm all alone out here.

Sasha

Dear Sasha

You comment that your SON is rude to you and your husband. I am sorry if this comes off as rude but refering to your son as she/he doesn't strike me as exactly respectful to him. You state that you do everything for this child but then you say that you cannot bring yourself to use the he pronoun. if you read through some threads on here you will notice that some of the people are even ok with being treated rudely as long as they are treated as thier true gender. there is one thread that talks about being called valgur names and the people actually at least appreciated the fact that the names that were used were for thier true gender (when I say true gender I mean what most people call target gender). you say you do everything for your child but the things you refuse to do and refuse to accept may be the only things that truely matter to him.

One thing you might want to try to accept is that your child is not becomming a man he is already a man with a type of birth defect ( no different than someone born with an extra toe or an abnormal growth). the only differance is that this particular defect happens to be how most people choose to identify someones gender. if he had a growth that caused people to look at him in ways that made him uncomfortable and he felt it was ruining his life would you not want hm to get the treatment to improve the quility of his life?

I am not trying to be mean or rude I understand that this must be very hard for you but can you even imagine how your son feels to be known as she and her when He knows that is wrong for him? try an experiment if you are willing try going out in the world pretending to be the oppisite sex (in your case pretending to be a man) interact with people as the oppisite sex would and try to be completely accepted as the oppisite sex for a complete week. if you do this experiment it will give you an idea of what your son has had to deal with for his entire life up to this point. I know pretending to be the oppisite sex makes most people uncomfortable and that is the whole point pretending to be the oppisite sex makes your son uncomfortable as well.

I can understand you feeling alone and I do feel bad for you but just remember that your son feels completely alone too!
  •  

deviousxen

Quote from: Sasha2 on January 27, 2009, 01:14:35 PM
Hi,
I am a mom of a FTM trans who found out 9 months ago and I'm still bewildered. I am depressed, sad, confused! When I first found out I cried for days and looked everywhere for explanations and for support. My child treats us (my husband and I) rudely as well. We do everything for thbis child. She/He wants me to use the He pronoun, but I just CANT!!!! It is killing me to see her turn into a male. She is now on testosterone shots (which I administer, I'm a nurse) she goes to an Endocrinologist and a psychiatrist on a regular basis. I don't know what more to do except get up everyday and remember to breathe! I hope that you find more help than I have because there are days when I feel like I'm all alone out here.

Sasha

Whats more important? Having a little princess, or a kid who loves you for you accepting the trust they placed in you for that painful moment of coming out?

As long as the love is still there, what does it honestly matter? Most FtMs end up passing no problem. They're still a human being, and it may be hard to see him change, but he's only changing PHYSICALLY. Its important to them, their physical perception of themself... But it doesn't have to matter to you, because to be affected by something so trivial as a body when you love the PERSON INSIDE for who they are, and not what they look like... Thats slightly shallow.

Stop mourning someone who's been there standing in front of you the whole time, he's still alive and will not be as disrespectful when the right pronouns are used. Respect goes both ways, even with kids, and its understandable that they would act that way when being called a girl, which totally ruins and demoralizes him. By default you're being just as disrespectful. I know its hard to see this happening, and you're scared, but kids don't just do this for no reason. Most people are too terrified to transition and it shows massive courage on their part doing this.
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NicholeW.

Etiology, where things derive, is always an interesting puzzle. The puzzle more and more appears to be one of biological causation that prolly, at least researchers haven't yet found a link, is NOT hereditary. It could well be environmental in regard to the increased amounts of estrogenous compounds the chemical industry has placed into the environment over the past ninety years.

Although, with increased population one would still expect to see the presumed proportion of TS people rise. There's no evidence that we have in that time period. There's a lot of evidence that more and more of us are discovering who we are for the past fifty years due to first print media and TV and now to the vast increase in computer-generated information available to more and more people.

Momoftrans, the etiology you mentioned in your initial post is one put forth and defended vehemently by one Dr. Paul McHugh who retired as the chairman of the psychiatric department at Johns Hopkins University. As a devout Catholic he has advised the current and previous Popes on matters of transsexuality. He appears to find the entire notion of a biologically mixed-sex child abhorrent and impossible, although various degrees of body intersex have been historically verified for millenia: children born with anomalous and mixed genitalia. One doesn't need too much of a stretch to think that the basic dimorphism of the brain can be subject to the exact same syndromes as those of the body.

Dr. McHugh is easily discovered on the internet by a simple googling of his name. Various scientists and people who disagree with Dr. McHugh are also findable there as well.

For information be sure to check out the Wiki feature at Susans. You may also find transsexual/transgender information at tsroadmap.com and at the reconstruction of an old informational site GID.com.

I would tend to agree with Arch, as he said above, that a gender therapist separate from one your daughter uses is a good idea. As a therapist I can tell you that any ethical therapist in the USA will not work you both simultaneously as the conflict-of-interests there is too large to overcome. She/he will not be able to work in such a way as to benefit the both of you without some severe issues about who her patient is and to whom she should be "loyal." Instead she/he may well have a few family-sessions to get a feel for how you interact, etc. But the patient will only be one of you.

As Kassandra said the schizophrenogenic mother has basically been relegated to the psychiatric dust-heap of history. Modern Attachment Theorists have made good cases for certain ways in which people find attachment from infancy onward. But the notion that parental distance or closeness having anything at all to do with homosexuality, heterosexuality or transsexuality are debunked and will hopefuly be dead forever once Dr. McHugh and his acolytes have passed from the scene.

Neither they, nor most of their followers, seem to toss these terms around to deal with fathers, families or groups and how children attach to those other than the mother. The main line these days sees that child-rearing is not simply the responsibility of the mother alone, regardless how that may play-out in some families.

In other words: try to forgive yourself. You haven't "caused" your child to be transsexual. The chances are infinitely greater that a biological quirk that is a random anomaly within the human gene-pool (think of a computer glitch that shows up occasionally but that no one can manage to "de-bug" and never propagates itself) and/or a result of high environmental concentrations of estrogenic and other steroidal compunds due to intensive uses of fertlizers, medicines, and other chemical agents our cultures use constantly to produce goods and services have caused your child's condition.

All that said, working on your relationship with your daughter is a very good idea. Of course that would be a good idea regardless of your child's sex. Best to you both.

Nichole
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Annwyn

ALL kids are disrespectful to their parents.

It's the struggle of a teenager to want to be independent but still be legally and financially bound to the parental unit, so of course without a fully mature brain the blame goes directly to the parents>.>

Can't help it, it's just part of raising a teenager.

Thank god I'll never have to.

If I COULD be your kid for an afternoon, I definitely would give you a big thanks and tell you what an awesome parent you are.  In fact, I think they would too if they could take a step back and get away from their struggle for identity and autonomy and crap.

Every year on mother's I go out with my godfather's wife and spend about $300 getting her dinner and wine and cake and coffee, cuz even though she only filled the role of being a mother for 3 years for me, I'll always be grateful.
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momoftrans

WOW!!!  You guys really are a supportive group.  Thanks soooo much for all the feedback.  It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with.  I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all.   :icon_hug:

For now, I still call him my son.  He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will.  He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out.  Thanks for all your kind words!

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deviousxen

Quote from: momoftrans on January 27, 2009, 04:12:07 PM
WOW!!!  You guys really are a supportive group.  Thanks soooo much for all the feedback.  It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with.  I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all.   :icon_hug:

For now, I still call him my son.  He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will.  He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out.  Thanks for all your kind words!

no problem. My last word would be to just ASK THEM what they are more comfortable being called. Sometimes they need a little more confidence... Especially with dressing up. My first time walking around the mall with my friend in make up as a girl was absolutely terrifying, and I wouldn't have been able to do it if it weren't for my friend being there with me.

The sizes, the shapes, the clothes, the makeup, and mannerisms and subtleties are a whole new language and custom to get used to. When I was first coming to terms with all of this... I secretly wished my mom would just help me and tell me all of the secrets of femininity, and I hardly really got it. Your kid is going to really want advice on girl-stuff in general, especially since they're so many years behind with the madness of growing up as a girl. Tell them that you will answer whatever questions they have about being a girl. Things will get better. Later!
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Jessie_Heart

Quote from: momoftrans on January 27, 2009, 04:12:07 PM
WOW!!!  You guys really are a supportive group.  Thanks soooo much for all the feedback.  It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with.  I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all.   :icon_hug:

For now, I still call him my son.  He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will.  He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out.  Thanks for all your kind words!

I am sure you will both do great and find a way for things to work for you both good luck!
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cindybc

Interesting thread, but I have to leave for now so I will say "Hi mommy!"  :icon_wave:

"Sheeeesh I might even be old enough to be your mom, "hee, hee, hee."

63 going on 16. Be back later to read the rest of the posts.

Cindy
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NicholeW.

Quote from: momoftrans on January 27, 2009, 04:12:07 PM
WOW!!!  You guys really are a supportive group.  Thanks soooo much for all the feedback.  It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with.  I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all.   :icon_hug:

For now, I still call him my son.  He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will.  He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out.  Thanks for all your kind words!



Thank you for trusting us enough to post your own feelings and thoughts, momoftrans. :) That isn't an easy thing to do either.

You come here hoping that we'll be able to give you some answers about something that's come as a huge shock and is prolly a bit devastating to you as well. And on top of that you have what you've heard and have imagined which, all too often, can be even more frightening than hearing your child say they are irretrievably "different" than whomever you had dreamt and hoped them to someday be.

That's a lot of shock, wonder and confusion to hit pretty suddenly! As a parent myself I can imagine it's been horrific for you.

I'll be honest, I thank Mother every day that my own children have never shown any sign of any kind that they are transsexual/transgender or even homosexual. It's not that I'd be horrified of any of that. And at least I'd have some experience in dealing with my own life that they might find helpful and positive.

No, what would kill me, I think, is the knowledge of how difficult and lonely and terrifying this condition can be, especially when I was younger. As a mother you're fortunate that your child lives in a time when she isn't automatically rejected as insane or ridiculous by everyone.

As is, it can still be a hard life to experience. Hopefully when our grandchildren have this possibility many more changes will have come for the good in how society views and interacts with transsexual and transgender people. :)

Bless you for coming here. You've given us all the chance to maybe make a positive difference for both another trans-person, but also for her mother. That's a great and good gift itself. :icon_hug:

Nichole
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Tina2

Hi momoftrans,
I think most things have been covered by all the others.
I love both my Mom and Dad and have a good relationship with them, they do not know that I am trans but I did tell my wife about a year ago, we have been married for 22 years and have a daughter and a grand daughter, my wife has been supportive and that is great.
I must say though that get your son/ new daughter help from a therapist and diagnosed, then proceed with what is right for her while she is still young, it wll be best that way, do not wait, now is the time, I wish I had taken my advise when I was younger.  Take care and encourage her to take the steps needed now to make the conflict inside become peace, I know a lot of my anger was from the conflict I feel inside.  Aloha.

Tina
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mina.magpie

Quote from: momoftrans on January 27, 2009, 04:12:07 PM
WOW!!!  You guys really are a supportive group.  Thanks soooo much for all the feedback.  It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with.  I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all.   :icon_hug:

For now, I still call him my son.  He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will.  He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out.  Thanks for all your kind words!

Thank you for asking us. I hope you and your child come through this with as little grief as is possible.

Hugses,

Mina.
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