I choose.........what do you choose?

[Barbara/Brandon]

I feel often that people hide behind the saying "I was born this way, I had no choice", as a way of not taking responsibilty for where they are in life.
You see, as soon as you make a choice, you take ownership of what is happening in your life, and you empower yourself, by claiming you had no choice disempowers you and you can just wallow in the place that you are at, basically be apathetic and going no where.

Ok, before I am shot down in flames, this is what I feel, you might feel differently, so lets discuss this..........

[Nicky]

That is assuming you have a choice in it. The only choice I see is do you live what you feel inside or do you hide it away. Certainly you can take responsibility for how you live your life.

It is real easy to think everyone else is like you inside and has the ability to break free of their assigned gender. But really I don't think they can. I think the only reason you could is because you wern't your asigned gender in the first place, all you had to do was realise it.  Why didn't you choose to just be a man or a woman. It would have been far easier woudn't it?

I'm in no way wallowing. I'm living it. Yet I don't feel I had a choice in my gender identity. I don't feel  I had a choice about the dysphoria I feel. That does not disempower me at all. Knowing it and living with it and dealing with it is very empowering.  It is only when you use "I had not choice" as an excuse to do nothing that you are not taking responsibility.

I agree with your sentiment, that you should take responsibility for your life, but I don't agree you can take responsibility over something you may not have had any choice in.

[Barbara/Brandon]

Ok, this is my stance. I was born with a hormone imbalance, as a female bodied person I grow hair on my face and have over developed musculature (not from working out). I had no choice in this. I tried to do something about it, went on cortisone for over a year (cortisone in high doses does bad things to you) I stopped because of side effects. Originally I thought I had adrenal Hyperplasia but blood tests showed that it was raised Dehydroepiandrosterones (DHEA).
I went through ambivilance with regard to gender identity and considered transitioning. Through this all I generally felt more male than female.
I continued through life often being called "Mr".
I now do not want to transition, because within myself I am at peace with my "otherness". To me I have chosen to embrace my duality.
Hence, to my logic, and not to discount the journey that people are on, does it not make it easier if you are in a state of dysphoria, to say This is how I feel, this is what will make me happy and at peace with myself, therefore I choose to do what is right for me. I know dysphoria is complicated by religious issues, family issues, society issues.
None of us choose to be born, who our parents are or the life experiences we have. It is ultimately what we choose to do with what life has served us that makes the differences.
I have been sexually abused as a child, I suffer from major Depressive Disorder. I can choose to let those things keep me in the gutter or I can choose to do something about it.

[Nicky]

You sound like you have had quite a journey so far BB.

I think I see where you're coming from. It is a massive step to be at peace with your own otherness and to realise that you were other in the first place.

Body dysphoria to me is another complicating factor that seems to be only loose linked to gender identity (along with prefered presentation, behaviour, social role etc..). You see some people with a non-binary identity yet seem to have no real body issues, while others like myself have quite significant dysphoria as well as a non-binary identity. I think a lot of us androgynes suffer from dysphoria to some extent and the real problem is that it often seems really undefined and the cost does not outweight the effort to find out what the end point would be. The question raised is what do I transition too, it seems there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I see a lot of sadness among androgynes that don't know where to go to get rid of their discomfort.

It would be far easier not to have any dysphoria at all, or that when you become firm in your identity that the dysphoria was more managable.  You sound like you already have the body that makes sense to your inside view.

[Eva Marie]

I have to agree that being at peace with the body you have is a great thing.

I also know (although i've not experienced it to the same degree) that having a mind-body mismatch can lead to many bad things, including substance abuse, and perhaps suicide. This is serious stuff.

While i'm basically "happy" with the body I have, I don't presume to speak for those that are having a much harder time than I am. They can "take responsibility" all they want, but the issue still remains for them. And it can be a very hard road.

You know, the old adage to walk a mile in someone else's shoes applies here. While it's admirable to take responsibility for your own life, in some cases that just doesn't work. Sometimes its advantageous to have a little understanding and sympathy.

my .02

[Barbara/Brandon]

Yup, I know what I say sounds harsh and unforgiving.......sometimes people need a poke to get out of that place of angst

So what gives me the right to be the "poker" ??.........I love living on the edge!

Ultimately I do understand, that people have different journeys.

If a person is in the "pit" with gremlins biting at thier heals, do you hand them a stick and say "ok, well look at it if you need to, go ahead, touch it, feel it, if you realy want to, grab hold of it and I can help you out" or do you say "here is the bloody stick, grab hold of it and I can pull you out (then analyse the situation later)" 

Ultimately I do understand, that people have different journeys.

have I mentioned....Ultimately I do understand, that people have different journeys. 

[Jessie_Heart]

the only thing I disagree with in this post is I think terms are confussed! when people say they had no choice most that I have seen say it in a way to mean they had no choice about being born with this birth defect (or how ever you choose to describe it) we share. We all make the choice on how to deal with it within our own lives. going through transisition to any degree or decieding not to transisition for whatever resons is dealing with it. the people I have seen on this site have taken control of thier lives noone is hiding behind anything they are just stating how they feel about where they are in thier lives. 

To use your analogy of the person in the pit if they were born in that pit they had no choice about being there to begin with they can only choose how to deal with it some may choose to grab the stick and others may choose to stay in the pit but they kick the gremlins in the a** and tame them so they no longer bite as often anyway. the thing you have to remember is if this pit is the only thing you have ever known then the idea of leaving it would be scary as hell. I would hope that if someone knew that this was the situation they would be patient with them and try to coax them out gently rather than screamin at them and scaring them so much that they will never come out of the pit even if they would have chose to do so otherwise.

[Janet_Girl]

Sorry to disagree, but I was born this way and had no choice in the matter.  That said I did make the choice to do something about it.  Transition.  And I am now happier than I even have been.

I spent 53 years as a miserable male and the last 4, going 5 months as a happy woman.  My body can use some more improvements, but then again many women are not happy with their bodies.

Janet

[Bombi]

 Choice? I knew I was different and always wondered why. I repressed and tried to be "normal" but I never felt normal.
So the choice I made was to live as I feel. It took me a long time to accept my choice but now all my self doubt and confusion has greatly diminished.
I'm not totally accepted by everyone but myself. Now that the choice has been made I feel more real ( and honest to myself). It's been liberating over the past few years to stop caring what other think and how they regard me and just be me. one love

[Barbara/Brandon]

I am sooooo happy, I truly am. I am happy because people are standing up for themselves and acknowledging that even though life might have given them a crap deal, they have chosen what to do with it!

I truly love you all, even if you disagree with my method and examples. I so wish people to have peace and happiness with who they are.

Lets just take life by the "balls" and say "I am who I am". Ultimately if people have a problem with who you are and how you present......it is thier problem!

[Jessie_Heart]

I am sooooo happy, I truly am. I am happy because people are standing up for themselves and acknowledging that even though life might have given them a crap deal, they have chosen what to do with it!

I truly love you all, even if you disagree with my method and examples. I so wish people to have peace and happiness with who they are.

Lets just take life by the "balls" and say "I am who I am". Ultimately if people have a problem with who you are and how you present......it is thier problem!

you presented a very thought provoking debate I personally have no problem with your methods anything that provokes thought can be a good thing!

[Nicky]

I don't love you back. You don't seem to have any understanding of how much pain dysphoria can cause someone. If you did you would not be going and poking it. That is cruel. It is all well and good for people that have gone a long way in resolving their ->-bleeped-<-, you can sit there giving yourselves a cheer. It don't make it easier for those that still have a long journey ahead of them. I doubt you have helped them in your pokings, only made them feel even more rotten about themselves. Not only are they burdened with their gender issues, but now aparantly it is their fault as well for not getting out of their pit.

To me your saying "I have acheived something you havn't because you have not tried hard enough, but I love you for trying to reach my level as I look down upon you all as my poor wayward chilldren".

[Jessie_Heart]

I don't love you back. You don't seem to have any understanding of how much pain dysphoria can cause someone. If you did you would not be going and poking it. That is cruel. It is all well and good for people that have gone a long way in resolving their ->-bleeped-<-, you can sit there giving yourselves a cheer. It don't make it easier for those that still have a long journey ahead of them. I doubt you have helped them in your pokings, only made them feel even more rotten about themselves. Not only are they burdened with their gender issues, but now aparantly it is their fault as well for not getting out of their pit.

To me your saying "I have acheived something you havn't because you have not tried hard enough, but I love you for trying to reach my level as I look down upon you all as my poor wayward chilldren".

I hope that nothing I have said has added to the pain of anyone else if it has please accept my sincere apology! it is not my intention to further burden anyone. the only reason I continued to use the pit analogy was to continue the discussion in terms that had already been used. if I have spoken in an insensitive manner that has made you or others feel more rotten or worse in any way I know it is unforgivable I can only hope it is understood that that was not the spirit in which I meant anything I said.

[Nicky]

I don't think you have said anything insensitive Jessie. I think it says a lot about your character that you are very quick to apologise for any potential hurt, even if your not sure you have caused any.

My comments were directed at Barbara/Brandon. Pica would say I have my panties in a twist. Maybe I have, it happens, but there is something about those posts which just rankles. Obviously they knew they were doing it as they said in the first post "before I am shot down in flames". If you knew that why did you go ahead? You're just purposfully stiring to get a rise.

[Barbara/Brandon]

Yes Nicky, I hear you, maybe you should ask yourself why the things I say bother you so much.

I have nursed MTF's during thier surgery, I have worked with MTF's in homeless shelters struggling because they have nowhere to go and cannot afford HRT. I myself have been through my own gender journey. Sometimes in life some questions do have to be asked, no matter how painful they may be, because there is no growth in a person until they are prepared to face the challenges and uncomfortable questions that life throws at them.

There are many people on this site who have a lifetime of wisdom and insite, and I want to learn from them.

[Nicky]

I thought I said why it bothered me.

You wern't asking a question. You were telling people that it is their own fault things are not good, that it is their own failing that things are not good. You suggested that something they had no control over is their fault too. I don't think this helps anyone except make you feel better about yourself. There are better ways to going about things, more tactful and more sympathetic ways.

[Nero]

Ok. I'm confused Barbara/Brandon. I don't get how claiming one was born with a gender condition is disempowering.
Further down, you say you have a hormone imbalance which causes you to have male traits.
I don't get how you 'chose' that. 
Post Merge: January 29, 2009, 03:05:10 PM
I don't believe we choose to be transgender either.

[Barbara/Brandon]

If you read the post properly, I was not telling any body that things were thier own fault. I posted an observation that I had made, and then gave my own feelings on choice and responsibility, and how I percieved what that statement means to me.
I then went on to open a discussion about it.

My self worth is not based on how "->-bleeped-<-" I can make others feel. My self worth is not reliant on you liking or disliking me. The chances are I will most probably say more things that knot your knickers, so, that is life. I ask questions, make observations, am I supposed to shut up? Where will I get the answers from?

"More tactful and more sympathetic ways" your quote.......
Sympathy - feel sorry for.........
Tact - sugar coating the truth............

[Jessie_Heart]

 I am sorry I have to disagree again. in my humble opinion Tact is not the same as sugar coating the truth it is presenting your version of truth with regard to others feelings. I believe that the word sympathy may have not been what was meant I think empathy would be more fitting. Your post did not personally offend me but when you made it you expected to offend people hence the phrase   

before I am shot down in flames

when you orignally expect offence to be taken by it you can not be suprised that people respond in an offended manner. you say that your intention is to get answers but you get answers by asking questions not by stating your opinions and observations as fact. I am not trying to tell how to form your post all I am saying is if you post things you know will get a negitive reaction don't be suprised when you get those reactions!

[Barbara/Brandon]

Hi Nero
If a person allows a condition to rule thier life, so much so that it is all consuming to the point the persons life comes to a standstill, that person is giving the "condition" power over them, therefore "disempowering" the person. The person who recognises thier "condition" and makes choices about how to deal with it, empowers themselves, they take control over thier lives.
I stated earlier on that we do not have control over what life has dealt us, what we do have control over, is the choices we make with regards to these things.
With regards to my hormone imbalance, I could have wrestled with choosing which of the binaries I wanted to identify as. I came to a point where it was not either/or, I felt I could not choose to be totally female or totally male identified, I felt better choosing neither or both.
Post Merge: January 29, 2009, 04:16:21 PM
Jessie
I am not offended and yes I do realise that what I say might cause offence. I would love to live on an island where nobody offended me but I don't. It is what I do with what people say that makes the difference.
I once felt it was my "right" to be offended, then a wise woman said to me "It does more damage to take offence", well I wanted to argue this point and then I thought about it, and realised that I am only making myself unhappy and angry and bitter and twisted by taking offence.

I love chocolate.....