Where are you at in your Androgyne/Genderqueer/Intergender/Bigender Experience

[Kendall]

Life experience is always progressing. One follows their desires, wishes, wants, dreams, and urges while dealing with fears, obsticles, blocks, burdens (financial, social, employment, school, friendships, addictions, etc).

I just was wondering where others were at:

What stage are you at in discovery, experimentation, transitioning, fully evolved expression.
What directions are you headed.


For Example: (I realize no 2 androgynes are the same, and not headed in the same direction, but were are you in your own experience compared to what you want)

As a child, I didnt think in terms of Male and female. I just knew I acted and liked certain things and was more oblivious of society.

I finished my discovery stage about 8 years ago, with the help of a therapist. She really helped me discover and fully accept that those parts of me that I had kept denying, hiding, and only expressing in private was probably hurting me greatly. And that I would fully recognize them in order overcome the painfull experiences and depressive feelings I was going through at that time.

Yes experimentation happened before discovery, but after my therapy sessions, the experimentation had better direction. Living was more about finding out more about what was the 'real me'. Real experimentation has happened the last 2 years. Actually attempting different things such as real life experience in being my self at home, then integrating things in public life (work and daily interactions). Real life experiences including appearance things: wearing makeup in public androgynously, getting earrings and wearing, wearing some feminine clothing and colors, shaping thinned feminine eyebrows, growing long nails. Even during this though I keep my masculinity still present. I am androgyne not trying to pass as female. My voice and main features still male. At work I still go with my thinning hair, not with the collection of wigs I have accumulated. Though I have worn them a few times just going out. I also set out to learn some things I had always wanted to learn like more about makeup, try sewing and making clothing, and making jewelry.

The transitions (not in a TS sense of the word) have been the changes or things experimented on that I like and repeat frequently.

Physically I am now dealing my anatomy now, and how my physical form will match my gender mix. This is where I am at right now.

The direction I am headed is further physical changes and working on my voice to add more femininity into it. Something a little more androgynous.

Relationship wise, I feel content at the moment. Though I know my work relationships might be affected slightly by any transitioning.

[Casey]

I've started to reply to this a few times and it would never come out right. So this time I'm just going to plow through. Hopefully it will make sense.

I feel I'm close to being finished with the discovery stage. Most of the big picture is there. In one sense it's only been six months, but in another sense it's been a good 20 or 25 years. I knew as late as high school that I was different. Not knowing what I was other than not really a man and not really a woman I went back and forth between simply calling myself a freak and trying to figure out what was going on with me. Six months ago I finally accepted that I was a crossdresser. I thought all crossdressers felt like I do. A week or two later I knew that I was transgendered. A month ago today I started calling myself genderqueer. And three weeks ago I started considering that I might be androgynous. But these last six months have largely been about learning the vocabulary and putting labels on how I feel. That and accepting that I'm OK the way I am.

I'm still fairly new when it comes to experimenting. Six months ago I was an unacceptable freak so I wasn't doing any real experimenting. I've been playing with my wardrobe and think I know how I'm comfortable. I'm growing my nails and and hair, and I shave my arms and legs. I've been more aware of things like my mannerisms and vocabulary lately and have started to play with those. I still very much have "regular" identity problems, never mind gender identity problems, so experimenting has been a bit of a problem. It's hard to know what I might like when I'm not really sure who I am day-to-day. I know that sounds like I'm contradicting myself. It's the whole big picture vs. little picture thing.

Transitioning has mostly been a mental thing. Lately I've adopted the motto of what's the point of being transgendered if I'm going to limit the experiences I'll allow myself to have. I'm slowly converting my wardrobe to how I'd like to dress. Physically I have "man boobs" (thank you Mother Nature) and that's getting me through for now.

I don't really know what direction I'm headed. My identity problems make me a sort of tabula rasa so I'm just enjoying discovering what I like and don't like.

[TheBattler]

Well I am in the process of coming out and experimenting.

I have had my ears pieced and have brought some nice earing to wear when I go out in girl-mode.

I few people have suggested that I buy some slacks and a blouse which I will need to look at soon. I guess I have a lot of experimenting to do and trying and find happiness.

Alice

[Underground Panther]

Would I dunno count?

Because I know I seek to appear more male but I am both and neither  at the same time in a shifting way depending on my state of being at the time..,Also Feline I think is something not included in most questionares like this.I find the main constant for me is feline...What gender is feline? ....well feline. Nuff said!

[Kendall]

Sure you do. I said each one would be different, feline included.

[beatrix]

I'm exploring.

I hope that will never stop, but I know that I will be done with this looking soon and have an answer.  I then hope to move to an area where I am at least tolerated, if not accepted.  Again, work is not good, but it may be better some day.

I know I am differant, but I don't know how much. 

Every day is an adventure.

[Vanessa V.]

Constant discovery here....

Like you alls, I largely had a gender neutral childhood. Don't really remember much of it revolving around gender. In puberty though, the walls all came tumbling down. As I grew in intelligence and life experience, I did realize that I was different.

The "I am a freak" phase was pretty short here. I have strong faith that things happen for a reason, and strangely high self esteem, so I didn't really sink too deep into sorrow. From, oh, about 15 or so, I've identified as a cross-dresser, and thats where I sort of am even now...

Susans has really shown me alot as to how there are a great many different tg experiences, and within the past year or so, I've safely excluded the possibility of transexual from my list. Just don't have the sense of dysphoria many TSes do. I'm relatively at peace with who I am and where I am going...

And now, with this new Androgyne category, I'm investigating to see if this might be a better fit than CD...

Perhaps in a few months, I'll know...

-Nessa

[Tristan]

Well, for starters, I've been poking around the forums here for a few days, and only just now found what might be a good spot for my first post.

I'm thinking I like Androgyne. My biggest problem, as an anatomical female in modern society, has always been about fitting into a genderpolarized world. I have always felt... funny... in dresses, and only been able to wear them when I'm in a specific mood. I remember dressing in a purposely boyish way in high-school, even though the clothes I wore then would probably have gotten an anatomical male laughed at, or called gay. I sang alto in choir, though whenever we were short on tenors, I filled in, having a low voice for a young female. I play role-playing games (tabletop, not computer... another vastly male-dominated hobby!), and about half of the characters I created were male, and about half female. To avoid getting into territory better mentioned in the sexuality forum, I'll briefly add that I have even had certain fantasies wherein I wasn't my own anatomical sex... and not just a few. It wasn't until I recently attended a series of classes about advocacy that I learned more about the transgendered community. I found myself asking the question (about all I dared to ask, the idea was so new!), "I know that men desiring to wear dresses is normally thought of as cross-dressing... but if a woman had the tendency to be a ->-bleeped-<-... how would she know?" Women wear the kind of thing I'd been wearing all along... but most of them didn't get angry when a formal occasion required them to wear a dress. I had recently begun to actually identify as bisexual, I had always preferred a more androgynous look to both men and women, and I knew I was somehow different, but had never really thought about being transgendered or genderqueer before now. I just figured I was tired of stereotypes.

I decided to learn more... from television programs about intersex and transsexual people, articles online, and even the "what gender is your brain?" test on this site (I scored a flat 50, by the way!), I began to understand a bit more. Finally, after reading the full description of Androgyne at the top of this section, I now feel comfortable that I have finally found, not so much a label, but an accurate descriptor of myself. I have learned some new vocabulary, and I identify as a bi-sexual (actually pansexual, but I'm still working out that word in my head) anatomically female androgyne who is comfy with feminine pronouns and not seeking surgery.

Now, I have to figure out my next step. I'm not always treading the line gender-wise. Some days, I don't mind wearing a dress... I even enjoy it, in certain circumstances. However, I'm increasingly aware that there are some days I feel definitively masculine, and I would like to try "passing" as male. I don't want to have people curb their language and tell me they "forgot there was a lady present" (RRRRrrr! I hate that!), I don't want to be referred to as Ma'am by strangers, and I don't even want to have to use the ladies' room when I'm out and about (I love those co-ed "family" bathrooms, and have no qualms about using them). I have never actually tried to pass, though... and the idea is kind of scary. I honestly don't know what I would say to those who questioned me if I didn't look male enough to pass. I know I want to try it, but exactly how is something I feel very mixed about. So that's where I currently stand.

By the way, nice to meet everybody. Out and about on the net, I'm usually Trystan Laryssa, a name that in and of itself speaks of dichotomies. I may see about changing my profile here... and I think I like this board.

[cindianna_jones]

I sometimes wonder of late if I am regressing... the rubber band effect

I aks myself why I am strangely drawn to the forum.  I don't know why but I have enjoyed it very much.  I've discovered many new facets of my personality here. And for that, I am grateful.

Cindi

[Melissa]

I'm kind of odd myself.  This is the first time I'll admit it.  I want to transition completely to female with SRS, but I feel like it would still be fun to try and pass as male every now and then.  It mostly depends on whether I "forget" the male voice or not, which I haven't yet.

Melissa

[seldom]

I am going to reflect more on my experiences.
I never really saw a transition to being androgynous.  I pretty much had a self realization since sometime in high school.  The thing is I acted and was androgynous throughout my life, which is part of the reason I was constantly picked on in grammer and middle school.  I just became aware of who I was when I was a teenager.  Even to this day it has a weird effect on relationships, because most people do not really have a good grasp on gender issues and have set things in thier mind.  I often tell people about this outright going into relationships, but they often do not understand until later and the relationship quickly falls apart.   

The other thing is it is not hard to be androgynous when you are pretty androgynous in the way you look.  I think the only thing I will do is remove my facial hair permanently.  But that is less of a transition and more something I feel I need to do.  I am not neutrois, though I have thought about seriously going this path in some ways (unich).   I am definately not in the same field as those who are transitioning to male or female.  I would not like to have breasts just as much as I would not like to be built like a barbarian.  I do want to get rid of some more masculine features (the beard mainly), but it is not that I want to replace them with strictly feminine features.  I do not feel like a female stuck in a males body, and I never felt masculine.  I am not seeking hormones or a sex change, because I do not think either sexual construct reflects my personal gender identity. 

I have worn makeup in public to come off as more androgynous, I have mixed male and female clothing, sometimes out of necessity.  I have behavioral habits which are more feminine that I had throughout my life. 

My family figured out long ago I was androgynous.  I never really even needed to tell them, they just figured it out. 

I never thought about growing my nails, ever.  I am a musician, and musicians genderally cannot have long finger nails on both hands.  I have painted my nails though in the past.  But having nails is both painful and destructive if you play guitar. 

The weird thing with me is the fact sometimes I am more feminine and other times I am more masculine, and other times I feel completely outside of both gender classifications. 

The best way I like to put it is being androgynous is very weird in the eyes of most people, but it gives you insight as well.  You begin to hate the gender constructs that society imposes.  Alot of it is because my own identity, but part of it comes from my belief that gender constructs hold society back.  I would say being androgynous is not a choice, it is just who I am, but who I am shapes my philosophical view point as well. 

[Dennis]

Hey Seldom, welcome. And you can have long nails if you play classical guitar, like I do. You pretty well have to have them on your right hand.

Post an intro when you have a moment.

Dennis

[Kendall]

Yes nails is a personal preferrence and optional. I have longer nails then most GGs.

But I only have them because I want them. My environment is pretty rough handling 60 totes of magazines each week, sometimes smashing them or damaging them somewhat. They are a curse and a blessing to me, more of the later of course to me.

Me I am not naturally feminine I think. If you see me unfeminized you would probably agree, (maybe even femininized  not so much since I have had no surgeries and such).

Anyway thanks for the posts

Ken/Kendra

[nathan]

Hmm... Let's see here. I'm currently in my infancy in the "Experience", but honestly I've been acting "femmy" for most of my life. Thinking back to my childhood made me realize why I behaved a certain way when all the other boys didnt, and has caused a lot of epihanies so far. Now that I'm feeling more comfortable in my own skin, I can start living like I want and not feel held back by gender roles (ask me about my 'orrible mascara application! ).

This should be a fun time. I can't wait to see where it takes me.

[Shana A]

What stage are you at in discovery, experimentation, transitioning, fully evolved expression.
What directions are you headed.

From my earliest childhood memories, I never felt that I belonged to the gender that everyone identified me as being. I also intuitively knew that saying so probably wasn't a good idea.  I never related to doing traditional male activities, and in school was often taunted by male persons as being a sissy or queer. I didn't at all mind being considered a sissy or queer except that I didn't like getting beat up. Even then I was proud of my "sissyness". Like many other folks here, I secretly dressed up in any clothes I could find at home, I don't remember how old I was the first time I dressed up though, maybe 7 or 8 yrs old.

Fast forward to early 1990s, I was already out as gay/bi and occasionally wore skirts when I became aware of myself as M2F TG and transitioned. I did the RLT for a year (I was very happy living as a woman), and then retransitioned to a non or neither gender space where I've been living for the last dozen years. It's a constant journey, I'm still discovering and figuring out ways to fully be and express myself.

zythyra

[madison]

Kendra asked:

I just was wondering where others were at:

What stage are you at in discovery, experimentation, transitioning, fully evolved expression.
What directions are you headed.

Confused. Frustrated. Lonely. Unsure.

Mentally I am at a stage where I feel as though it is time to finally come to grips with this fabulously dressed pink elephant I've been sweeping under the rugs for so long. I've been through so many stages of denial, desperate self-labeling, and utter confusion I am sure that my androgyne identification is at the core of so much ongoing dysfunctionality in my life: the depression, the frustrated anger, discontent, extreme and poor decision making, distancing myself from the people around me, guarding my words to not reveal something that will ostracize me and subject me to obloquy*. Yet I'm still dealing with even understanding who or what I am enough to even talk about it out loud.

Because I spent so many years hiding so much of myself, I have gone to lengths in the past to make sure no one would ever suspect there was anything different about me in "that" way, even though I'm not sure what "that" is. In the past few years I have spent much time considering and trying to determine what "that" is. And I am definitely at the stage where I still don't know, so I'm going to have to use that as the starting point for "coming out". I'm at the stage where I need to start coming out with the fact that I don't know, and hope that the people around me might help me find those answers.

Mentally, in my efforts at gender/sexual identity obfuscation, I have allowed some of the beautiful giving passionate person I started out as to die. I am at the stage where I must undo that damage, reaquire my belief in magic, accept the unfairness of the world and do my best to make it a better place. I am at the stage of learning to share my thoughts and feelings openly without fear of the consequences. I am at a stage where I must learn how to be strong without having to always be right or in control.

I must learn to laugh again, to be silly again, to be giddy again. To love life for what it is and give of myself to others, because I have taken too much, and confined myself too much.

Sexually I am far from understanding. After having left a very good relationship, for many reasons, least of which involved gender or sexual confusion. Though once single again, having been in relationships with women (boy/girl) one after another practically back to grade school, yet having dealt with suspicious homosexual urges off and on, I reached a stage where I needed to find out if I was gay (androgyne/cross dressing aside). I've been single and timidly trying to meet guys, almost entirely online for several years. But I've been too scared. Too scared what my family and friends would think if I were gay. Worse if they found out I was the stereotypical "woman" in the gay relationship. Then exposing myself to gay culture revealed that transgender wasn't on the radar of most gay men, often a blatant turn-off, solicting as much disdainful comments as I feared from the world at large.

So I am at the stage where I need to "come out" as a confused questioning androgyne who might want to be with a man. I am at the stage where I need to meet other people openly and honestly and maybe discover that there are other androgyne people like me, whose sexual and gender issues mesh perfectly with mine, somewhere in the middle of the gender continuum. It is only through being honest with myself and in turn the people around me that I will ever be capable of even meeting anyone that might exist in the narrow demographic of potential lovers I might find.

I am at the stage where I must recognize that while I don't mind being single, that I want a companion, a best friend, a lover. I want someone who I can hold, and who will hold me. Someone who can trust that I'll be there for them, and that they will be there for me. I am at the stage where I don't want to be a recluse anymore (except where it suits my obsessive-compulsive artistic creative needs ).

Presenting in appearance and fashion, I am at the stage where I am trying to accept that somedays I like men's clothing and styles (sometimes harder than accepting the desire to cross dress, but easier the more I realize that the modern world includes some real mens fashion). That sometimes I like wearing pretty dresses, shoes, and jewelry; that pretty panties and lingerie are both luxurious and sensual, and that I don't have to want to be a woman to want to be feminized in appearance and behavior. And that more often than not I want to just dress and decorate myself to any degree masculine or feminine, without borders, as I feel might be fun, might express myself, or really, just be darn cute of neat looking. I am at the stage where I think I seriously need to start figuring out how to make my own clothes, a truly androgynous clothing line .

I am at the stage where I feel as though I need to really start doing all of these things seriously. I am 34 years old and I feel still quite youthful in experience, though I can finally see a hint of the years creaping in. If I am going to have a truly androgynous, perhaps leaning slightly feminine appearance, I am at the stage where I feel like I need to do something fast. I am at the stage where I feel so much regret for not coming to grips with this sooner, younger, when I had a better body to pull off more extreme genderbending fashion. I am at a stage where I think about the articles that talk about what is okay for genetic women (and men to a certain degree) to wear at what age, about how short a skirt or wild of an outfit a 40 year old, 50 year old genetic women should wear. So what about an androgyne slightly feminine, but fairly muscular masculine guy? What style of dress will be okay for him to wear at 40? 50? I am at the stage where I worry about how I'll deal with feminine fashion desires when I am old?

I am at the stage where I know I need to calm down and try, as hard as it might be, to just live, just see what happens, find the support, and not worry what the neighbors, what society is going to think. I am at the stage where I definitely need the support and advice of all of you here at Susan's. I am at the stage where I should seek therapy to help with recurring bouts of depression that I am somewhat convinced are in part because of my androgyne issues.

I am at the stage where I am comfortable enough to share with all of you thoughts. feelings, and experiences I have never shared with anyone. I am at the stage where I share this here even knowing that this is a public space and I might be "discovered" before I am ready. I am at the stage where I realize I may never be ready, and I just might discover that I never actually tried. And I want to live.




Thank you all again so much for sharing. It helps so much to hear of other peoples unique experiences, trials, and victories. To know that you are not alone. The honesty on these forums has brought me to tears from time to time, welling up with emotions and a sense of contentment and wholeness I was beginning to wonder would ever come back. Thank you.



* Just learned this word after reading Brianna's quote, and you've got to use new words to make them part of your vocabulary.

[Kendall]

Now that I'm feeling more comfortable in my own skin, I can start living like I want and not feel held back by gender roles

Nathan:
Yes the feeling of being held back by gender roles is a big one. I havent tried everything, and still feel a few things holding me back sometimes, but the big things that I have tried, have felt extremely good, and given me my first real tastes of choicing my own gender expression to match my gender mix, in the public. This realization and first feelings I have done so far I would never trade for anything else. I have never faced the terror like it before, yet felt the freedom from overcoming it so greatly.

I didn't at all mind being considered a sissy or queer except that I didn't like getting beat up.

Zythra:
I have been beat up 3 times also. And harassed a few times to the point of physically fleeing. Who gave them the right to commit violent acts on a person minding their own business, and doing something that didnt harm anyone else?


Madison

Yet I'm still dealing with even understanding who or what I am enough to even talk about it out loud.
...
In the past few years I have spent much time considering and trying to determine what "that" is. And I am definitely at the stage where I still don't know, so I'm going to have to use that as the starting point for "coming out". I'm at the stage where I need to start coming out with the fact that I don't know, and hope that the people around me might help me find those answers.

Sounds to me the time to do some really frightening things. Some really big things (or small) that you just do, then worry about the results later. Frightening as in "some things you have always desired, but where afraid to try". And try not to prejudge how you think it will end up, nor how it will feel. But just allow you the chance to experiment more. And this time I mean in a public way. If worried about doing something big, do something smaller, less noticable.

I've been single and timidly trying to meet guys, almost entirely online for several years. But I've been too scared. Too scared what my family and friends would think if I were gay. Worse if they found out I was the stereotypical "woman" in the gay relationship. Then exposing myself to gay culture revealed that transgender wasn't on the radar of most gay men, often a blatant turn-off, solicting as much disdainful comments as I feared from the world at large.

One good thing is your single. Many are locked in battle with partners just finding out a hidden truth after X amounts of years. Then having to explore it first before attempting further relationships.

I am at the stage where I share this here even knowing that this is a public space and I might be "discovered" before I am ready. I am at the stage where I realize I may never be ready, and I just might discover that I never actually tried. And I want to live.

Its all to apparent to me, you know you have to do something more now. Its just a matter of deciding "what" that is. Make it very easy maybe. Pick like 3 absolutely easy things you can do this next week, that wouldnt be too hard, or 1 sorta hard thing.

If you cant think of anything, try something common.

I am at the stage where I feel as though I need to really start doing all of these things seriously. I am 34 years old and I feel still quite youthful in experience, though I can finally see a hint of the years creaping in.

This weekend is good enough as any to start trying something new, or scary.

Ken/Kendra

[Laurry]

Excellent words of advice Kenda. 

Madison, you've made a couple of very open posts today...take that openness and run with it.  Explore new ideas.  Try something you've always wanted to try.  Be adventurous...mix plaids and polka dots...wear pink and green together...run with scissors...go swimming right after eating!!  Be aware of your surroundings (we don't want you to get hurt),  but otherwise, HAVE FUN!

Most of us have lived a life of repression (internally or externally forced) and/or confusion.  When a chance comes along to break free of some of those chains, serious consideration should be given towards taking it.  My hope for you is that you embrace life, have a blast, and live.

....Laurie

[Shana A]

I have been beat up 3 times also. And harassed a few times to the point of physically fleeing. Who gave them the right to commit violent acts on a person minding their own business, and doing something that didnt harm anyone else?

I try to be compassionate and understand where people's fear comes from, and do what I can to educate, but I just don't understand violence. I never have.

I'm not much for religion or prayer, but I do wish for safety for all of us as we venture out into the world as who we are.

zythyra

[madison]

I love you people!

LaurieO and Kendra you are my shordurpersavs (Short Duration Personal Saviors: a concept from the Church of the SubGenius)

Such true words Zythyra. And by the way, I absolutely adore your name! Is there a history there?



Somebody get Kendra a television show or something! If being a little more open can get this kind of dialogue going then it has got to be a good thing. It's always been obvious that coming out of the shadows is the only real answer (to a lot of things). And all we can do is keep doing. The best things in my life have always come from open honest relationships, but it is exactly the sort of violence (physical and mental) referenced in this post, that has held me back for so long. But no good can come from ignorance and denial. The path of truth may not always be easy or pleasant, but at least there, you know where you stand.