Dating

[kisschittybangbang]

How do people FIND ftm's or androgens to date?

I mean it's like... I found lex while lex was a lesbian... now that the field is all open for me and what not, when I'm ready, I want to know where I'll be able to find people I'm attracted to. (Doing research let me see lot of ftm's and they're very attractive to me. ^^ and I've always had a thing for andro's)

[Sarah Louise]

You probably won't find one here.  Were not a dating site.

Sarah L.

[alexkidd]

Hey kisschittybangbang,

I sent you a PM with a link in it - wasnt sure if I could post it here. Hope it helps

Alex

[Venus]

The same places you find anyone or you can try clubs that specialize in certain areas for example I went to my first gay bar over the weekend.  I learned a while ago that the only way to meet is to advertise that you are looking, you bravely admitted what you hope to get and that is a good first step.  So even if you don't find someone here because it's not a dating site doesn't mean you won't find someone.  Someone on here might no of someone.   

[Mister]

How do people FIND ftm's or androgens to date?

I mean it's like... I found lex while lex was a lesbian... now that the field is all open for me and what not, when I'm ready, I want to know where I'll be able to find people I'm attracted to. (Doing research let me see lot of ftm's and they're very attractive to me. ^^ and I've always had a thing for andro's)

This is probably one of the least respectful posts I've seen on this forum.  Fetishizing transpeople is not ok.  Ever.  FTMs are not some special breed of human, they are men.  Treat them otherwise and they will very justifiably lash out at you.  Please, please learn some basic respect.

[Venus]

Sorry if my earlier post was disrespectful by encouraging people to look for and date ftm people.  I understand that everyone likes to be treated with respect and as an individual.  I guess there is a difference between dating someone JUST because they are ftm and falling in love with someone who just happens to be ftm.

My one friend would ONLY date BLACK men, and I was open to people of every type so when I read that this person would like to date ftm I just took it the same way as when my friend told me she really wanted to date a black man.   I didn't even think of it as a fetish thing until it was mentioned as so.  Now I am curious, do some people fetish me? Do I fetish others?  My ex was only attracted to straight girls and when he found out I wasn't straight he dumped me so did he have a fetish for straight girls?  I am going to google fetish.  Thanks for the idea and another view on things. (P.S. I am not here to pick anyone up I have a girlfriend/fiance)

[Starr]

I don't believe she meant any disrespect by it. Her FTM boyfriend broke up with her even though she changed from lesbian to be with him. I think she's just realizing that she's attracted to FTMs now.* It might just be the exposure she's had recently that makes her feel more attracted to a certain type of person. Like I've always had a thing for Italians, and I think it's because the area I grew up in had a large Italian population.

Before Hypatia and I began dating, when I was in love with her but wasn't sure we would ever get together, we went to an LGBT conference. I was just beginning to realize I really was lesbian, so I looked around to see what types of women I was attracted to, if any. The only woman I found attractive there (besides Hypatia, of course) turned out to be a trans woman. It doesn't mean that I would make it a point to look for an MTF to date, but perhaps I was drawn to this woman because of my feelings for Hypatia.

*This is just my take on things. I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth. 

[Hypatia]

There's a very important distinction between feeling attracted to trans people and fetishizing/objectifying trans people. Many of us have become extremely sensitized and sore about trans fetishization, which explains the pained reactions you're likely to encounter. If you haven't experienced life as a trans person, you can't possibly fully understand how that feels.

But to get a good idea of the issues, see this discussion about it:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/10/about-your-issues/
where trans people and other feminists are reacting to an essay by someone named Annalee Newitz who makes a big deal of how her attraction to a trans person makes her somebody special-- in other words, seriously objectifying trans people and using them to boost her own ego. That clearly crosses a line. Anyone who fancies trans people needs to read that discussion, it gives many examples of why this is a big problem. They analyze in great depth exactly where the line is to be drawn between attraction and objectification. It can be a subtle distinction sometimes and hard to grasp until you really get into trans people's heads and learn to see from their point of view. Read the reactions to the FTM-fetishizing cartoon by Erika Moen to see how much visceral revulsion they feel at it. As a prime example of what not to do.

Why I feel 100% comfortable with Starr is she has never objectified me for being a trans person. Starr is a prime example of how to get it right. She has always loved me for being the unique whole person I am. This is why we are able to have such a close relationship founded on total trust. In fact, that anecdote about finding another trans woman attractive is Starr checking herself to make sure she isn't starting to fetishize us. I appreciate her level of conscientiousness about getting this right.

It's OK to be attracted to trans people as long as you see them as whole people in their own right. It becomes objectification or fetishization when you separate out the transness as a feature in itself to go after.

In fact, come to think of it, my family's refusal to accept me as I am is because they have totally fetishized the cisgender identity they want me to have. They treat me as an object instead of a person. They care only about the male social role they demand I fulfill, and care nothing about whether the real person who I am is destroyed by it. That is extreme, destructive fetishization. So if anything, cisgender fetishization is an even worse problem for us when we need to transition. It isn't even real at all.

[Starr]

Why I feel 100% comfortable with Starr is she has never objectified me for being a trans person. Starr is a prime example of how to get it right. She has always loved me for being the unique whole person I am. This is why we are able to have such a close relationship founded on total trust. In fact, that anecdote about finding another trans woman attractive is Starr checking herself to make sure she isn't starting to fetishize us. I appreciate her level of conscientiousness about getting this right.

I'm glad you understand about me looking at other women that day. There really weren't any who truly caught my attention because you're the only woman for me. 

[kisschittybangbang]

Okay thanks starr. I haven't been on in a while. It's NOT me having a fetish. At all. It's me going, their personalities are great and I find that the ftms I've encountered are just genuine gentlemen. You know? Biological males... are just... I've no interest because most I've encountered have no sense of chivalry.

As for me using this as an add, No. I didn't mean for this to be taken as such a disrespectful thing. I was just wondering. I'm only 18 for bubbah sake and I was only "out" as a lesbian for a little while before lex decided to tell me. The GLBT community was and is still very foreign to me. I was just asking a question. Again, no disrespect.

And my original post states "when I'm ready." I'm far from healed. I don't think I'll be dating for a good long while, but when the chance is there and the time is right I don't know what could happen...

Sorry for the misunderstandings.

[Hypatia]

their personalities are great and I find that the ftms I've encountered are just genuine gentlemen. You know? Biological males... are just... I've no interest because most I've encountered have no sense of chivalry.

I feel exactly the same way. I keep wishing there were more men of such character. Trans or cis, no matter, it's the good character that matters. I'm sick to death of the churlish attitudes too often prevailing in the male world. It isn't the transness of trans men I care about, it's that, like you said, most of the ones I've ever met have been such gentlemen.

That they can be so decent even when pumped full of T testifies all the more so to their good character. Or maybe it means that the reputation of T for causing churlishness is exaggerated and the cause is to be found elsewhere.

Wishing you healing, dear...

[NicholeW.]

This is probably one of the least respectful posts I've seen on this forum.  Fetishizing transpeople is not ok.  Ever.  FTMs are not some special breed of human, they are men.  Treat them otherwise and they will very justifiably lash out at you.  Please, please learn some basic respect.

I can understand the instant reaction portions of this. As Hypatia said lots of us would rather be "loved for who I am, not for what I was or where I came from."

But, the fact is human attraction can be a wild and wooly beast, but usually isn't. We find people who do tend to fit certain "types" tall, short, attitudinally this or that sort, hairy, hairless, broad, narrow, blonde, brunette, large-breasted, tiny-breasted, wide-hipped, narrow-hipped, etc etc etc. Does that make for a fetish? Or does it mean that someone finds certain aspects are likelier to catch their eyes and interests than others?

Almost none of us are ever appreciated for "who we are" to begin with in a relationship. Initial attractions seldom are for those aspects of us we find unique to ourselves. Instead they are attractions to "types." The association of positive aspects of behavior or looks to an FTM isn't fetishizing the person, I think. It's associating a particular attractive aspect with a group of people.

Yep, it definitely loses that individual quality at that point, but it doesn't make a fetish either. It generalizes, in this case a positive, to an entire group. Obviously such generalizations seldom come anywhere close to being true 75% of the time.

My guess is that after the inital attraction then, if the relationship can be nurtured further, the interests and attractions become specific to a particular individual.

I really didn't see anything offensive in the opening post, just something quite rudimentary: associating one's wants with what she found attractive before. That is a rather usual human behavior.

Nichole

[Mister]

I can understand the instant reaction portions of this. As Hypatia said lots of us would rather be "loved for who I am, not for what I was or where I came from."

But, the fact is human attraction can be a wild and wooly beast, but usually isn't. We find people who do tend to fit certain "types" tall, short, attitudinally this or that sort, hairy, hairless, broad, narrow, blonde, brunette, large breasted, tiny-breasted, wide-hipped, narrow-hipped, etc etc etc. Does that make for a fetish? Or does it mean that someone finds certain aspects are likelier to catch their eyes and interests than others?

Almost none of us are ever appreciated for "who we are" to begin with in a relationship. Initial attractions seldom are for those aspects of us we find unique to ourselves. Instead they are attractions to "types." The association of positive aspects of behavior or looks to an FTM isn't fetishizing the person, I think. It's associating a particular attractive aspect with a group of people.

Yep, it definitely loses that individual quality at that point, but it doesn't make a fetish either. It generalizes, in this case a positive, to an entire group. Obviously such generalizations seldom come anywhere close to being true 75% of the time.

My guess is that after the inital attraction then, if the relationship can be nurtured further the interests and attractions become specific to a particular individual.

I really didn't see anything offensive in the opening post, just sonething quite rudimentary: associating one's wants with what she found attractive before. That is a rather usual human behavior.

Nichole

Nichole, I disagree with you.  Had this post been made by someone actively seeking MTFs to date rather than cisgendered women, this forum would have erupted.

[NicholeW.]

Nichole, I disagree with you.  Had this post been made by someone actively seeking MTFs to date rather than cisgendered women, this forum would have erupted.

Well, I kinda got that we were disagreeing, Mister. But, I'm afraid we have had similar posts to that about MTFs and the "entire forum" didn't erupt.

Sometimes we take ourselves all too seriously. I do and I've seen you do at times as well. Not everything is meant as a slight or disrespect. Different people have this tendency to better state or more rudimentarily state what they feel. 10 minutes of actually reading things and weighing them is often conducive to telling the difference.

N~

[imaz]

Nichole, I disagree with you.  Had this post been made by someone actively seeking MTFs to date rather than cisgendered women, this forum would have erupted.

Ok! I think MTFs are pretty hot

*awaits forum eruption*

[Flan]

Ok! I think MTFs are pretty hot

*awaits forum eruption*

[Venus]

I don't know about mtf or ftm in general
but my girlfriend is HOT (and she just happens to be mtf)
or at least that is just my opinion.
and not to sound jealous or anything but I have met quite a few mtf that are much hotter than I am!!!  We also have a few friends who are ftm who are really hot!

[phantom_heart]

I think everyone is beautiful and that love real love reaches past someones gender into the heart of who the person is.

Also i have to agree my Adrianna is very VERY hot and she's mtf

[Nero]

Hi Phantom.

Sorry, couldn't help noticing this. How beautiful.

Adrianna I claim you as my lifemate I belong to you. I offer my life for you. I give you my protection. I give you my allegiance. I give you my heart. I give you my soul. I give you my body. I take into my keeping the same that is yours. Your life will be placed above my own for all time.

*sigh* I really need a woman.

[phantom_heart]

Thank you!! I can't take credit for it. There wasn't enough room to post that its from my favorite book series. Everyone should check it out. Christine Feehan's Dark series. Its about Vampires and Carpathians its romance but its got a great twist. There are like 25 books in the dark searise so far. I've read them all. But this is in the book. All Carpathian males lose the ability to see colors, and feel emotion. Only their true lifemates will restore colors and emotions to them. These are the ritual words that bind a woman to her Carpathian lifemate. *sigh* i love this series.