Susan's Place Logo

News:

Based on internal web log processing I show 3,417,511 Users made 5,324,115 Visits Accounting for 199,729,420 pageviews and 8.954.49 TB of data transfer for 2017, all on a little over $2,000 per month.

Help support this website by Donating or Subscribing! (Updated)

Main Menu

Culturally Gender-biased Associations

Started by Just Kate, April 21, 2009, 01:58:37 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Just Kate

Recently I've been further analyzing my motivations, and the stimulus that provokes my GID (ok I always tend to do this) with my wife.  I decided this time to focus on the incredible feelings of longing associated with GID.  I looked specifically at that which I was longing for.  As I did so, I had to admit things that were hard for me to hear - judgments I made within, and prejudices I held somewhere deep inside.

I would ask that you do not judge me too harshly for the things which I discovered about myself - aspects of them are shameful to me enough as it is.  I share my discoveries with you all in hopes you can relate and perhaps this too will help you in understanding your feelings.

I was to be an incredibly sensitive child.  I had a bleeding heart for nearly everything and everyone.  I didn't meet a person who didn't get the benefit of the doubt, who wasn't worthy of total forgiveness, who wasn't someone I poured my heart out to, and who I wouldn't offer comfort and caring whether they asked for it or not.  When met with those who didn't like me, or were angry with me, I was often confused because I didn't want anything but the best for them.  I told people often that I loved them and did my best to show it.  I would get overwhelmed at times, and even in my prayers as a child in the fact that I couldn't help everyone at the same time, that ultimately helping one person meant leaving another person on the wayside for a time.  My prayers themselves were long because I felt the need to fit everyone in - as if their very welfare depended on my adding their names to my young prayers (I didn't grow up Mormon BTW).

I often watched television as a child, movies and kid's shows that often displayed good morals and positive human attributes.  Often the attributes showed that most represented me, and those I most modeled were those portrayed by female characters.  Specifically self- sacrificial female characters that seemed to find their greatest joy and purpose in giving of themselves wholly to the service of others. I felt these characters were the ultimate role model and most akin to my own heart.  I wonder if this isn't where my female associations began - from a very early age.  Associations referring to the fact that I took a trait that was my own, something essential to my character and then associated it to a feminine stereotype, rather than accepting it as gender neutral.

As I grew older, telling my male friends, or new males I met that I loved them, offering things like hugs, and reaffirming physical gestures were often met with terrible disdain.  I lost so many male friends back then - people whom I cared so much about and wanted to see happy, but who I drove away by my outward gestures of caring.  I was called names, told I was gay, and ultimately treated with contempt.  The girls though were not nearly as offended by my actions, though some still thought I didn't act enough like a 'boy'.  These consistent rejections coupled with my associations that such actions were appropriate for females, but not for males, I think is where my GID began - truly began.   I felt that in order to interact appropriately with others according to my sex, I needed to act different than I was - so I became a chameleon and I lost myself in pretending to be like others.

I cannot erase the effects of the chameleon - it has become so ingrained upon my psyche - with exception of one condition.  When I transitioned I dropped all pretense of my chameleon self, all traits of the "Actor" as I called him, and became the same person I was as a child, only this time was far more accepted for my outwardly caring behavior.  In fact, when I transitioned, I was often told by friends that I cared so much about others that it seemed like it might be a farse - until they really got to know me and realized how real it was.  I was asked in all seriousness by a co worker of mine who I comforted after he had a tough time at work one day, if I were really an angel - like a real angel.  I laughed and told him no, but he told me that he would have believed me if I told him I was.  I don't tell you these things to extol my virtues but to demonstrate as accurately as I can how I tend to behave when uninhibited.

I think I transitioned mostly so that I could become this person again outwardly, someone who I had long buried due to the pains and rejections felt being that person.  Transition represented a chance to be an uninhibited me who wouldn't be met with comments that I wasn't acting appropriate to my sex.  I realize how sexist this all sounds.  Girls are not inherently the way I'm describing myself no more than boys are - it is just in our culture, it is far more acceptable to have a girl act this way than a boy.

When I transitioned back, I went back into hiding.  I mean, I let a little bit of myself show through now and then, in times when those closest to me were in deep distress - so I developed close friendships as people came to know that I had their best interests at heart. However, I still felt like the vast majority of the time, and I still feel like this today, that the part of me I keep so sacred, the part of me that represents my true nature, I must kept hid from the world so long as I remain in my male form on this earth.

So, when my GID strikes, it strikes in such a way that: perhaps it is not so much I need to be seen as a girl (though that is how it feels), though that is a strong association I have with it, but it is that I want to be myself, the real ME, the one who is so buried.  But I have so strongly associated this notion of myself and my true nature with female that the two feel inseparable now, and it is almost impossible for me to act on my nature while others perceive me as a male - some sort of mental block.

When I feel those terrible feelings of longing to be female that often accompany GID, it is always coupled with times when I wanted to be myself, but felt restrained.  As such, I've discovered another one of my triggers.

So what does all this mean?  Am I not REALLY a transsexual, but someone who is having a terrible identity crisis?  Or does this cultural component play a part in everyone's GID?

Regardless of the what it means, it is real, and I deal with it today.  Coming to this realization has been tremendous, and I feel a bit of relief, like... my inner self might soon be able to have full expression even while in my male body.  Perhaps I can break those associations, and become an example of a male who epitomizes what are traditionally considered "female" qualities.

My friends have a nickname for me.  Everyone here has heard of the Alpha Male?  They call me the Omega Male. ;)  Perhaps I can define what it means to be an Omega male and pave a path of acceptance for others like me. ;)
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

Kaelin

If the inclinations you have for being female are rooted in gaining acceptance for your personality, then you are most certainly not a woman.  There's a possibility you may be androgyne (neither male nor female), but the simplest answer is that you are a man who happens to possess some so-called "feminine" characteristics.

I'm going to hone in on this "Unrelenting Feminist" label, and I'll adapt a dictionary definition of "feminist" for the sake of others reading this to minimize confusion/stigma: a feminist is a person  who wants political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.  I personally take it to be a person who believes that people should be able to act and live without regard to gender.  It's a very reasonable ideal.  It can apply to women, even those who (incidentally) still tend to do "feminine" things.  It can apply to men, even those who (incidentally) still tend to do "masculine" things.  Ultimately, it applies to people who t believe that people should not adhere to gender-specific standards but instead according to merit and their own abilities and interests.

I think you have a pretty good idea what is going on here.  Your feminist beliefs have you believe you can be a man and be all of these "feminine" things.  Even if it freaks out most of the people around you, you are correct.  The culture is to blame, and the LDS church hasn't exactly helped.  A trap that you must watch out for with regard to your self-sacrificial nature is to make sure that when you sacrifice yourself that you do not sacrifice others.  If you deny your own "feminine male" nature, you aren't just making matters harder for yourself, but for other feminine (or even androgynous) males as well -- they need to have the benefit of knowing it's natural to be that way, and traditional people need to be aware of how pervasive such people are and how beneficial they can be.

Of course, being your true self isn't easy.  In a strange way, this is another way you find yourself "self-sacrifing" -- alienating those around you can make matters hard on you, both socially, emotionally, and financially, and that can have implications for people you care about, although the degree this problem emerges is going to depend on other factors (other aspects of yourself, and the nature of the people around you).  What you can be sure of, though, is that you will be honest about who you are.  Honesty about your gender is unrelenting feminism.

Does that help?
  •  

Cairus

I enjoyed your post, Kaelin, but in the beginning of it you mention, 'if ____, then you are most certainly not a woman'- which seems to be in contrast with some of the things you say thereafter. If the sexes are equal, and males and females should be able to have any trait without compromising their gender identity, then Interalia's behavior and feelings don't dictate whether or not ze is a woman, and nothing else does, either, except maybe what ze chooses for zerself.

I don't believe anyone can digest a short essay and tell the writer whether they're a 'woman', or a 'man', or whether they're 'truly trans' or not. What makes someone trans is identifying as trans. What makes someone a man, a woman, both, neither- unto themselves, is their own decision. Interalia can choose to live life as a woman, and accept the pains and freedoms and come with that, or live as a 'feminine man' and accept the pains and freedoms that come with *that*. In the end, it's the same person at a crossroads- just taking a different route.

Me, for example, I'm 'transitioning' from female-to-male. I'm not necessarily a masculine female, I'm not really a woman or a man- I'm myself, but I'm seen as 'trans'-ing from 'one side' to 'the other' medically. This will make a certain handful of perceptions easier to come by, which in turn will give me another handful of expectations to live up to- it shifts the way the world around me will look at me, but I'm still myself, and my 'gender' hasn't changed. I'm still neither a man nor a woman at the core of my being(I don't believe anyone is, truthfully), but favoring the difficulties of one path over the other. Does this make me 'not a transsexual' anymore? Who or what dictates whether we're trans? 'Woman', and 'man' are just labels we can put on our cans in hopes to advertise content, if/when we decide that the label is satisfactory.

Honestly, I don't believe there is any such thing as F->M, or M->F, but instead, F->X, and M->X, or more accurately, X->X! (Gasp! What do you mean we're not M->F/F->M? Of course we are! Are you saying we're not 'real men' or 'real women'??!)  We're ourselves, and we're still ourselves! It's all a matter of needing to be validated by a group and the need to seek 'likeminded individuals'. It's the same reason we have 'dykes', 'femmes', 'butches', 'androgynes', 'fags', 'MtF', 'FtM'; we're trying desperately to advertise ourselves, when in truth no one label is even remotely inclusive enough to encompass the whole of who/what we are.  Most of us add these indicators with the hopes of finding 'others like us', and distinguishing ourselves from those who are 'not like us'; but in the end, we are ourselves and we are each other! There is no 'one way' to be trans.
  •  

Nero

Interalia,

I know this is an old post, but I was wondering - do you have physical dysphoria as well as social? I seem to remember you have taken medical steps in your transition. Is that correct? If you had body dysphoria, it would seem that this isn't just a personality thing. What I mean to say is - how could recognizing your personality as what society deems feminine cause the physical component of GID?
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: Nero on December 22, 2009, 10:48:41 AM
Interalia,

I know this is an old post, but I was wondering - do you have physical dysphoria as well as social? I seem to remember you have taken medical steps in your transition. Is that correct? If you had body dysphoria, it would seem that this isn't just a personality thing. What I mean to say is - how could recognizing your personality as what society deems feminine cause the physical component of GID?

This is a question I've been asking myself too.  I obviously feel some sort of body dysmorphia - I know the feeling of avoiding the mirror some days so as not to be reminded of the horrid figure that stares back at you.  I even went so far as to have an orchiectomy to diminish the effects of testosterone on my body. 

You say however that body dysmorphia, if it exists, must not be a social product.  Let me challenge that idea with a hypothesis.  Let's say my GID is socially oriented and is tied up in social biases toward feminine males.  So what would cause me to have body dysmorphia?  Well what if looking at my male body only served to remind me of the fact that others only see me as male and so I am resigned to that social role.  Would it not be conceivable that I could begin to blame and even hate my body for consigning me to a social role not consistent with my natural tendencies?

I'm not saying that is what happened with me, but I'm not denying the possibility.  I merely bring it up to show that even elements as seemingly innate as body dysmorphia could still be socially created/motivated.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

gqueering

What I hear is that you're having an issue with 'gender appropriate boundaries'. So you have a lot of love in your heart for people and want to help others - that's great. The issue, from what I can tell, is how you go about expressing it. Your natural inclination is to express it physically (through hugs, kisses) which in our society is seen as 'feminine' behaviour. But you're absolutely right, that's sexist. Everyone regardless of sex can hug & kiss, it's our culture that says 'boys shouldn't'. So yeah, sounds to me like you are oppressed by gender stereotypes... I would say that most males are, that most males want to be more expressive but hold back out of fear of being judged 'not masculine enough'. And I would say that most male men channel this energy into sex, which is seen as socially acceptable. So "women love and men f*ck". Yeah, right.

I don't know what this means for your GID, that's for you to decide. However, what you have described sounds like cultural oppression to me. It's a reflection of the feminine vs masculine dichotomy which leads to the woman vs man gender binary which I believe oppresses everyone to a greater or lesser degree. What can you do about it? If you figure that out let me know because I'm struggling with the same thing! The brave thing to do would be to "be yourself no matter what"... but that's easier to say than do when the price could be your life.
  •  

disdwarf

Hey, interalia, I wonder about whether you think you live a "normal" and happy life in your situation now... if I remember from some posts of yours you seem to have made steps towards transition and then stopped/de-transitioned? Are you happy with your life as you live it right now?

Was your decision to stop transition related to unsatisfactory results, or to social disapproval, or for some other reason?
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: disdwarf on January 23, 2010, 11:20:32 AM
Hey, interalia, I wonder about whether you think you live a "normal" and happy life in your situation now... if I remember from some posts of yours you seem to have made steps towards transition and then stopped/de-transitioned? Are you happy with your life as you live it right now?

Was your decision to stop transition related to unsatisfactory results, or to social disapproval, or for some other reason?

I'd say I'm happy as any other "normal" person. ;)

My decision was for many reasons, but one of the biggest involved authenticity with those around me.  I require a high degree of it from myself in my close friendships, and having a secret past life wasn't making me feel all that authentic.  My blog has far more info on this under the "My Transition" entry..
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •