'Warning! it's dangerous to transition' your thoughts on this article

[Mari]

I don't know if anybody noticed it but the ending/bottom line

"There's always the next life."

sounds so sad... It's really depressing to hear that a person, regardless
of sex/gender/trans or not is so "happy" with their life that their comfort is
in fact that maybe someday after all this sh**, new, better life will come...
Well at least it sounded so to me 

[Chrissty]

OK..it was a little OTT in places, but it does serve a useful purpose with good content, if a little tedious to read at times.

I tend to agree with the need for a "Transition or Die" type mindset quoted by so many here (or something close to it), in which case the article can only serve to deter the "uncertain transitioner", which I see as totally positive.

Chrissty

[ilikepotatoes]

i think it's very well written and important web content and feel anybody that doesn't take it seriously to heart is somehow kidding themselves.

It's hard to take it seriously because a good chunk of the piece is full of outdated or inaccurate information or her personal opinions. I do admire her for opening by referencing Zelda.

[cindybc]

Katia, Sandy, and Chrissty. I'm afraid I also come from the same old school.

Transitioning: If you are afraid of getting burned then don't play with the matches.

P.S.
I transitioned because I could not handle playing along with the lie anymore, It certainly wasn't because I was the bravest person in the world either. That is why at times I sign off as The House Mouse.

[Dorothy]

I'm the transition-or-die type too. Excuses, excuses, excuses & more excuses only mean I don't have the NEED to transition.

[MeghanAndrews]

I think this page is a great tool for one reason...It gives people thing to consider and think about. When someone is coming to terms with things whether they are 13 or 33 or 63, these are realities that need to be dealt with. Without getting into semantics, if someone transitions they will hopefully have come to terms with all of these things. It doesn't matter whether you see it as a choice or not, what matters is that you know what could or will come your way. These don't really look like anything surprising to me, but if they surprise someone before they transition or during, then I think that's a great thing. Meghan

[cindybc]

At this point in this thread I believe that a bit of "rehash" might be in order.

For me, and for many others, there was a compelling need from deep within for a person to make their body congruent with their inner-self.  The inner-self can be pretty obstinate about accepting the misalignment between the body its occupant.

If all one has is a "desire" to transition it is better that they don't start.  There is a chasm between a "desire," a thing that has a much larger take-it-or-leave-it component than a "need."  A need must be filled before one can progress to another level of existence.  A desire can go unmet without catastrophic damage to the one who has the desire.

The real life experience (RLE) is an indespensible part of the transition.  IMHO it separates the desire from the need, the actual from the vicarious experience.  If one sincerely believes that their gender misalignment is an accident of birth, that person will start, endure, and grow within their target gender while living each minute of the RLE.

The RLE is not an option.  It is a difficult course filled with obstacles and discomfort. 

Imagine going home on a Friday afternoon on the same subway and bus you have been riding for years, filled with nodding acquaintances and casual friends that you have made, then go to work on Monday morning on the same bus and train that took you to your job for years, in your target gender.  How does one deal with the strange looks and the stupid questions that might be waiting?

Now take that scenario and apply it to the dry cleaner's, the pharmacy, and the supermarket.  One might hear males of the species grunting like a pig or making sucking noises.  Other females might laugh when the person who is transitioning is in the area. 

Can you take it?  if you can't, maybe you'd be better off to stay in the gender to which you were born. 

A simple, physical necessity like relieving nature usually becomes a big issue in the workplace.  It is an issue of sufficient import to cause one to quit a good job or be sacked from it because they chose to use the wrong washroom.

Need Vs. desire.  There's a big difference.  Transition changes everything.  Marriages die from it.  Careers are ended by it.  Families become alienated.  It's possible that even the dog becomes confused.

No one should have surgery without successfully completing a medically or psychologically supervised RLE.  It must be done and the results discussed during its progress.  Hormone Replacement Therapy makes physical, mental, and emotional changes that cannot be entirely undone but I believe that it is far better to turn back during the RLE than it is to have Gender Reasssignment Surgery with even the slightest hint of a doubt as to its need in one's life.  Need, not a desire.

Transitioning from one's birth gender to a target gender isn't like getting one's hair cut or colored or getting one's nails colored.  These are temporary changes.  HRT and GRS are forever.

It doesn't take guts to transition.  I believe that it takes desperation, a pressing need and not even a strong desire.

So this is my thorough and complete thoughts and feelings on this subject article of this thread.

Cindy

[Zelane]

Poking around her site, you'll see that she keeps mentioning that she feels she wouldn't be able to pass as a woman, even though she's only 24. I hope she is able to live a happy life in a male body, but that article looks like she's pumping up her own fears about transition.

Yup, pretty much. I have seen that persons just made up a LOT of excuses to why not to transition. Or to why its not the right thing (even if it is) or why they are a failure.

A lot of the time its just self loathing and auto sabotage.


I wonder what this means:

There are people for whom the need to transition is a medical, physical condition.

Its this person talking about those that are intersex and want to transition? I would include in those words, those that are TS (without having any IS issues) that NEED to do transition or they will commit suicide.


Plus those warnings are being used for fear not in the right sense. I mean and sorry if I offend someone. But if you start transition with your eyes shut out. Then you are kinda stupid because you didnt do you job in collecting info.

Transition its NOT for the weak of heart. It takes a lot, you need to be ready to lose everything. To know what are the medical risk.

And finally, SRS its not because you want to have super orgasm. But to being in the correct body, to be comfortable with your body finally. The sex thing its an added bonus.

[GinaDouglas]

I think the article is useful.  If someone reads it, and still wants to transition, then they really want to transition.  That's valuable.  Nobody should be going into transition under any delusions.

[Zelane]

I think the article is useful.  If someone reads it, and still wants to transition, then they really want to transition.  That's valuable.  Nobody should be going into transition under any delusions.

I fully agree. I just dont like the way that article its being worded. I prefer the writing style of the Lynn Conway "warning" section.

[cindybc]

I think the article is useful.  If someone reads it, and still wants to transition, then they really want to transition.  That's valuable.  Nobody should be going into transition under any delusions.

I do quite agree with your post Zelane

I also agree with the part of transitioning is not for the week of heart although guts has nothing to do with it either. It is simply an irresistible need where you are willing to do it to be yourself at any cost.

Just for once to be at peace in mind body and soul.

Cindy

[Just Kate]

I read through this site some time ago after she advertised on an androgyne LJ I was on.  I wrote the author an email asking for more information and speaking to my own experience.  I can tell you this isn't some right wing construct based on the email response I received.  She is struggling much like the rest of us and recognizes she doesn't have all the answers.  That being said, I feel many of the comments made already related to the content of the site is correct in that it better represents her own fears than reality.  Just another one of us looking for validation of the choices we have made.

as you know, i'm one of those radical women that thinks that if a person is in fact transsexual, s/he will transition fully.  a transgender person may have more "options' but a ts doesn't.  the article? baloney!

Damn, I guess I need to stop identifying as TS.

[cindybc]

Damn, I guess I need to stop identifying as TS.

Hi Interalia hun, you know me by now I try to treat everyone with love and respect, even if I don't see the same thing eye to eye with them, and I do my best to keep an open mind.

I never chucked out your theory of detransitioning yet, hey if you can do that my friend, you will have discovered an inroad to something that was never achieved successfully by any truly transsexual person that I am aware of yet.

If you can show me you can do this and live your life content and happy, heck it won't be hats off to you, I don't wear hats, so maybe I'll take up wearing a hat "eh." All I am trying to say is don't chuck out the TS name plate yet, just put it up on a shelf where you know where to find it, if you should ever need it again. 

Cindy   

[imaz]

as you know, i'm one of those radical women that thinks that if a person is in fact transsexual, s/he will transition fully.  a transgender person may have more "options' but a ts doesn't.  the article? baloney!

With respect that premiss is flawed and incredibly Western centric. How can a poor person in the wilds of Afghanistan for example transition fully? Many people in the West also can't transition for a variety of socio-economic  and medical reasons.

[Seshatneferw]

I'm the transition-or-die type too. Excuses, excuses, excuses & more excuses only mean I don't have the NEED to transition.

Thank you for posting this, as it made me finally realise just why I disagree so strongly with the transition-or-die party line.

I'm entirely willing to accept that some use the term transsexual to refer to those who absolutely need to transition -- in fact, that's what the medical establishment over here does. It's not quite how the term is supposed to be used in these forums, but that's not a big deal as long as we all understand each other. Unfortunately, the difference seems to go deeper than that.

In the past I have experienced pretty serious dysphoria. Not enough to make me consider suicide, but nevertheless I have already spent a couple of years trying to figure out just how long I can live with the body I have, and I may never know it for certain. Now, dismissing this as 'excuses, excuses, excuses & more excuses' that 'only mean I don't have the NEED to transition' is another way of saying that I'm just lying to myself, either about being dysphoric or about being able to look at both the positive and negative aspects of transition. A true transsexual knows my situation better than I do.

To put it simply, the transition-or-die position claims transsexual privilege and denies that privilege from the likes of me.

  Nfr

[Genevieve Swann]

Any surgery is dangerous. Even something as simple as a circumcision. All of the bad side effects listed which can be caused by HRT are also caused by eating junk food. Eating fast food daily causes many health problems.

[Natasha]

transsexualism isn't an "identity"; it's a diagnosable & treatable medical condition characterized by intense gender dysphoria & body dysmorphia.  like with any medical condition you either fit the medical criteria or you don't.  it isn't rocket science.   

"non-op" is a term that's becoming increasingly difficult to justify.  in the past it referred only to those people who were transsexual but were unable to have surgery for clinical reasons. yet improvements in surgical and anaesthetic techniques and procedures now mean that there are very, very few people who are genuinely unable to have surgery for those reasons.  harry benjamin used the term "transgenderist" for non-ops but it's important to mention that he also noted "wavering between TV and TS"

Type Four: Non-op Transsexual
Gender Feeling: Undecided. Wavering between TV and TS.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses as often as possible with insufficient relief of his gender discomfort. May live as a man or woman; sometimes alternating.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido often low. Asexual or auto-erotic. Could be bisexual. Could also be married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 1-4
Conversion Operation: Attractive but not requested or attraction not admitted.
Estrogen Medication: Needed for comfort and emotional balance.
Psychotherapy: Only as guidance; otherwise refused or unsuccessful.
Remarks: Social life dependent upon circumstances.

harry benjamin's scale: http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Benjamin_Scale

Group Three: Transvestitic Transsexual Gender Identity: Ambivalent gender identity. Value male sex organs but feel feminine. "She-Male"
Gender Role: Dresses as much as possible depending on life circumstances. Dressing not necessarily sexual. Impulses often intensify with age and may crystalize into a transsexual picture.
Eroticism: Genital and breast.
Biological Feminization: Spironolactone for demasculinization + gynecomastia. Some may need hormones for emotional balance.
Conflicts: Confusion and personality disorganization, dual personality with male and female names and disassociated personality components.
Desire for Re-assignment: May consider late if very inadequate as males, dependent on commitments.
Treatment: Integrative psychotherapy to stabilize androgeny. Support for re-assignment if appropriate.

dr. watson's: http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/watson.html 


Benjamin also said:   

The transsexual (TS) male or female is deeply unhappy as a member of the sex (or gender) to which he or she was assigned by the anatomical structure of the body, particularly the genitals. To avoid misunderstanding: this has nothing to do with hermaphroditism. The transsexual is physically normal (although occasionally underdeveloped) [2]. These persons can somewhat appease their unhappiness by dressing in the clothes of the opposite sex, that is to say, by cross-dressing, and they are, therefore, ->-bleeped-<-s too. But while "dressing" would satisfy the true ->-bleeped-<- (who is content with his morphological sex), it is only incidental and not more than a partial or temporary help to the transsexual. True transsexuals feel that they belong to the other sex, they want to be and function as members of the opposite sex, not only to appear as such. For them, their sex organs, the primary (testes) as well as the secondary (penis and others) are disgusting deformities that must be changed by the surgeon's knife. This attitude appears to be the chief differential diagnostic point between the two syndromes (sets of symptoms) - that is, those of transvestism and transsexualism.

more here: http://www.symposion.com/ijt/benjamin/chap_02.htm#Transvestism%20versus%20transsexualism

also, the term "non-op transsexual" is an oxymoron. the term "transsexual" was coined by a reporter in the late 50's after christine jorgensen had her surgery. at that point in time, there were only 2 terms. ts for those who obtained/wanted surgery, and tv for those who didn't.  the term tg was coined in the late 60's around the time of the stonewall riots and was first used for those who lived as the other sex without grs. so it was for someone who was more serious than a crossdresser, but without the desire for a complete transition. that is what a non-op is, not a preop who must stay there. non-op is in one's head, not in their circumstances.

if a person cannot have grs, they are pre-op, rather than a non-op. if they could get surgery, they would.  a non-op is one who would never get surgery even if you wrote them a check for a million dollars.

furthermore, for me, "can't-op" or "perpetual preop" is not the same as non-op. a non-op has nothing against their original parts below.  non-op is a mindset rather than a condition. what i call a "can't-op" is someone who is too disadvantaged, sick, or elderly to get surgery.  so there is a big difference between having the non-op mindset and simply being unable to have grs.

btw i don't attach ts onto the end of non-op. i consider non-op people a variety of tg but not ts, not better or worse, just different & ya i know about the site terms & definitions, i also know there's a child board for non-ops on here.  that doesn't change what harry benjamin said nor does it change what i believe.

[Chrissty]

The great thing about real people is that they rarely ever fit into convenient categories.

[Sandy]

To put it simply, the transition-or-die position claims transsexual privilege and denies that privilege from the likes of me.
  Nfr

Unlike other diseases like diabetes or other physically visible malady, ours is a very personal singular condition.  Each of us must make our own diagnosis of what we are.  Each of us must choose how we wish to self identify.

Lord knows that there are a myriad of labels to choose from, TV, TG, TS, Drag, queer, queen, king. ad nausium.  But in the end it is an INTERNAL term.  It is a singular FEELING inside each and every one of us that tells us what we are.  And of what we are comfortable with in being identified by our selves.

I claim that I am woman with a transsexual condition.  That is my internal self identification.  I came to that understanding when I finally figured out that just being a fellow that like to wear ladies underwear didn't answer all the questions in my life.  It was an epiphany of near religious proportions.  Light dawned and angels sang when I finally had the answer.

I knew what I was and the name, or label that I would call myself, internally.

My path is unique, and so is everyone else's.  There isn't a test, we do not "show", there is no observable condition that a trained physician or observant parent could detect, other than in our most extreme siblings that we portray a severe identification for the cross gender.

There are some of us that say that we all need a global term or terms that put us into identifiable categories.  So be it.  Call me what you like.  I already know what I am.

So too, MY internal identification does not require ANYONE else to identify the same way.  Call yourself what you like, what ever you are comfortable with.  Actually I encourage it.

Very few ever have to go through the same level of self identification that people in our community do.  We have to diagnose ourselves before we can seek help.  This is unique.

So in that regard I would NEVER claim that my condition precludes yours.  I am not more privileged than you.

We have much more in common than anything that would separate us.  And in that respect we walk this path together.

-Sandy

[Suzy]

I think the article serves one useful purpose.  If it can talk you out of transitioning, you probably don't need to transition.

Kristi