'Warning! it's dangerous to transition' your thoughts on this article

[Nero]

http://www.geocities.com/girlinside123/warning.html

Your thoughts on this article?

[Miniar]

I do not believe anyone going into surgery or hormones is unawares of the potential death that follows Any of these things.
I do believe that there are good reasons to choose not to take hormones or have surgery.
That article however, seems over the top. At best.

[myles]

I am trying to decide which over the top conservative group put this page up. Interesting that none of the numbers of people who commit suicide because they don't transition or marriages lost because people are not willing to come to terms with their GID. Ok I'll stop now, Other than that since I have nothing nice to say I will say nothing at all.
Myles

[tekla]

I once got a friend of mine on a job because he kept on claiming that 'it would be one of his life's goals to work on a show' with the band in question.  When he got there he kept on saying how much he was going to like it.  My sidekick turned to him and said "So, you really like these guys?"  "Oh yeah" was the excited reply, to which my friend deadpanned, "We'll see about changing that for you then." 

True enough, by the end of the day, he was a lot less enamored with the concept.

More to the point, I think Winnie the Pooh correctly stated: When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

It should be of little surprise that a lot of people work very hard to get someplace that once they arrive is not at all where they thought they were going.

It should also be of little surprise that many will arrive very ill-prepared for what they are about to encounter.  Take the SF job deal.  It's hard for people - even normal ones - to find a good job.  People tend to hold on to them, competition is Fierce, and lots of people wind up way over their heads when they find out that having a HS degree back home ain't worth the paper its printed on here, or that having that BA/BS ain't quite enough when the people you are going up against have Masters or beyond.

So that much of it rings true.

Hell one of the places I work is about the easiest jobs in rock.  It also is the single lowest paying job in the entire international union.  But we work there because we like it.  And with five of us on a show, you tend to have about 150 years of experience on the deck.  And you might look at it and say (and it would be true to some degree) "hey, let the beginners work that gig, it's easy, and the pay is dirt" (less than half of what I make in other venues) but its not going to happen, so some person hoping to break in, ain't going to be doing it there.  As we say (there and in a bunch of other places I work) You don't get trained here, you get here trained.  So someone starting out ain't got a prayer.

I remember a person who was trying to get on and said, "Oh I know those lights (lighting system) real well."  And I'm looking across the stage at the guy who invented those lights.  Huge difference.

So lots of people move to the Bay Area for the liberal environment, but find that getting a job is all but impossible.  So they wind up on the streets - rent for a studio apartment in a ->-bleeped-<-ty part of town is $1,000 a month - and it goes downhill from there.

So a lot of it rings true.  Its not the right solution for a lot of people who take it up.  And, particularly with younger people, they may 'know' the risks, but in their thinking, 'it ain't gonna happen to them.'

[ilikepotatoes]

Poking around her site, you'll see that she keeps mentioning that she feels she wouldn't be able to pass as a woman, even though she's only 24. I hope she is able to live a happy life in a male body, but that article looks like she's pumping up her own fears about transition.

[Janet_Girl]

Poking around her site, you'll see that she keeps mentioning that she feels she wouldn't be able to pass as a woman, even though she's only 24. I hope she is able to live a happy life in a male body, but that article looks like she's pumping up her own fears about transition.

Sound as though the author has some issues that she still needs to work out.  No one goes into this blind, we all know the risks and the benefits.  And to most of us feel that the benefits are worth the risks.

And secondly her site will soon be moved to a new server, because Geocities will be no more.  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59083.0.html  Which really doesn't have anything to do with her issues, just a point of fact.

Janet

[Ms.Behavin]

I've ran across this site before.  Lots of fear factor but little in the way of reality.  There are dangers with any surgery, yet when was the last time someone died from SRS. The facts are serious surgery complications are under 2%-3% which makes it actually pretty safe

My guess is it's actually produced by some nice right winged conservitive christian group as it's way over the top from any other TS site.  Just my two cents

Beni

[NicholeW.]

I think that the point about not transitioning unless you have to is prolly a good one that needs to be heeded more. And I think it especially needs to be heeded by those of us who have transitioned or are transitioning most of all.

I sometimes get really antsy when I read, on this site and others, transitioners encouraging newbies, particularly, to "come on in the water's fine." I'm sure it is for those of us who are making lives post-transition or in the midst of transitioning. But, how many of us have seen more than a few would-be transitioners either stop transitioning and de-transition or how many suicides arise from transitioners who decided they did make a mistake and thought for whatever reason they couldn't go back, or found themselves more alone and isolated than they had ever thought possible? (I discovered last week that someone I knew irl three years ago and was always upbeat and extremely positive about transitioning and her life committed suicide within the past few weeks.)

It does take a lot to transition, just as it takes a lot to remain effectively hidden within your life after you transition. Just as it takes a lot to be relatively "out" after you transition. None of it's a lark or the path to uninterrupted and unceasing bliss.

The prices are personal and much about a transition is irrevocable or very close to it. It's not for everyone for any number of reasons.

I personally find articles like these good because they are discouraging to those who may be less than sure that they are willing to pay whatever the price to transition.

I wish there were more stories like this one with a fairly wide circulation and that more people would pay close attention to them.

Transitioning is one of those very personal and very needful events in the lives of many of us. But the fact is it's personal and when it really comes down to it, if someone's hesitating for whatever reason they are prolly best served by me not encouraging them to go ahead anyhow. Better they stop and live with the dissonance than prematurely jump into something they are not totally convinced they must do.

Nichole

[Ms.Behavin]

Oh some of the statistics are rather dated too (IE 20+ years old).

I like where they say 90 percent of TS marrages fail.  Gee so does about 55-60% of non TS marrages. 

There is also most awareness abut TS people now. Yes we still have a ways to go to be mainstream.  But compared to even 10 years ago things have changed alot.

One think I do agree with Nichole on, is if someone is hesitant or questions if they really are TS, then they need to fall back and think about it, before doing anything that can't be undone  for it is forever.  Me I never had any questions as to who I was.  It's not an easy path but for some it's the only path. 

[tekla]

No one goes into this blind, we all know the risks and the benefits.
I don't believe that for a second.  Far too many people see what they want, and ignore the rest.  Most of the time in life its no big deal, but it can be.

There is also most awareness abut TS people now
I think there was a point in there about that.  As more and more people are aware, it's a lot harder to hide, or go 'stealth' - its a lot harder to hide when people know what they are looking for, or at.

[sd]

Some of what is said there miss-construes a few things. A perfect example is 20% suicide rate post S.R.S., how many of those people had other problems. Maybe they expected S.R.S. to fix them, maybe not, but odds are there was some underlying issues. Combine that with post surgery depression...

I'm not saying the whole page is B.S., my first thought was this was some religious group who wrote it as well. This page reads like a scare tactic. which is why I thought that.


However, I do think people do need to be aware of the consequences of what can happen and should not rush into things. We all should be made aware of these things. We should be discussing them and making new people aware of it. We also should be discussing these things with our therapists and figure out ways to deal with it.

Does everyone do this, NO. There are several (relatively) high profile cases of people who went through with it only to find it was wrong for them. They of course launch campaigns to stop everyone from making the same "mistake" they did.

[cindybc]

Well, I agree with Beni, I knew what I wanted probably all the way back since I was a kid but the problem was the information on what Trans and GID was not that readily available back then and I didn't discover it until years later.

Even then I didn't jump in blind. I did some research on the statistics of transitioning and all of the possible hardships that one may encounter from society as well as my physical and mental health. I took the good and the bad and just moved ahead with what needed to be done.

Yes I quite agree with Nichole as well.

Transitioning is one of those very personal and very needful events in the lives of many of us. But the fact is it's personal and when it really comes down to it, if someone's hesitating for whatever reason they are prolly best served by me not encouraging them to go ahead anyhow. Better they stop and live with the dissonance than prematurely jump into something they are not totally convinced they must do.

Furthermore, yes I quite agree with Tekla. Unfortunately very few of us will successfully be able to remain stealth after transition for any number of reasons, not passing might be only just 1 reason out of a kazilion other reasons, yet you can be as obvious as all get out and pass. Most times one may even out themselves by their own choice for whatever reason.

I think there was a point in there about that.  As more and more people are aware, it's a lot harder to hide, or go 'stealth' - its a lot harder to hide when people know what they are looking for, or at.

Cindy

[Dennis]

Well, for a start:

But assuming that physically the woman is completely female externally and reasonably feminine in overall appearance, then passing is often about the small things - things that are second nature for some one brought up as girl but entirely strange for a man - things that Hollywood often has a field day over when a man impersonates a woman in a comedy. If you look awkward in heels, struggle to touch-up your makeup, don't recognise Channel No. 5, ... well cumulatively over weeks it might become strange to people...

Is a wee tad stereotypical. I grew up female and I couldn't walk in heels if you paid me (at least couldn't look natural doing it, and trust me I tried). I bought my mother Chanel no. 5 every birthday, but damned if I could recognize the smell. And don't get me started on makeup. I tried it a few times and it didn't work. Nuff said.

However, I agree enthusiastically and wholeheartedly with what Tekla and Nichole have said. This is a serious decision. The grass is not always greener on the other side. If you can live where you are, and the risks, seriously considered risks, aren't worth it, then don't. This is an irreversible decision. If I decided to go back, I have a beard, a deep voice, and no tits. Living as female would be unthinkable for me. It was bad enough when I had a low voice and an unfeminine body. I hated it (and I don't mean any disrespect to androgynes here, but I hated being in between). If you are uncomfortable with being a feminine man or a masculine woman and you go partway, you will be worse off.

Many of us on this board are enthusiastic about our lives, and that may sometimes come off as "come on in, the water's fine". That's really only the case for those of us who've had a huge load lifted of us from transitioning. And props to Tekla for quoting Winnie the Pooh. The bear of very little brain has much wisdom:

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it

Dennis
Post Merge: April 25, 2009, 12:55:19 AM
Oh, and stealth? If you care about that, best get acquainted with the internet, Patriot Act, and other ways people can find your past. Best strategy, I find, is not to be ashamed of who you are.

[placeholdername]

I think it's mostly a good article up until the part where she quotes something from the infamous Archives of Sexual Behavior.  It is a big huge serious decision and to think otherwise IS dangerous.  Still, I think overall it is pretty fair, except for a few parts in the hormones warning section where it basically says: 'warning: if you take hormones you will have to deal with some things that normal men/women deal with anyway!'

[tekla]

Funny, in a post immediately preceding this one is this quote.

I feel I messed up on the HRT bit, even though it was short time, and there is minor distribution to my chest. I don't know how I'm going to handle life exactly, I'm kind of a screwed up case anyway. Anyway, at least I was smart enough to stop in tracks before things were a real problem.

I think Cindy is right in that often there are multiple problems, and a single solution is not going to be a catch-all cure.  Only when its the one and only course, made - as a will - of sound mind and body, should it be considered.

[placeholdername]

Sound mind sure -- I'm sure how you can qualify sound body for a possible transsexual .  But yes, transition is not really a decision well made in times of desperation.

[cindybc]

To my observation what the article is saying, as well as Nichole's thoughts on it, is *be convinced without doubt* as to what transitioning means to you.

When you begin transforming you are basically beginning a process to make the inside congruent with the outside. And, "NOT" to discover to late you have made a wrong choice or error. To be certain that you "SHOULD" have had no doubt that you have made the right decision before proceeding. Also, do you understand all the medical requirements and the potential complications that could arise?

Nichol.

But, how many of us have seen more than a few would-be transitioners either stop transitioning and de-transition or how many suicides arise from transitioners who decided they did make a mistake and thought for whatever reason they couldn't go back, or found themselves more alone and isolated than they had ever thought possible?

Cindy

[sneakersjay]

For me, I couldn't live as a woman any more, not when I knew I could finally be myself.  The risks were worth it.

My mother thought I was moving too fast, and wanted to know what if -- what if I were making a huge mistake?

My response was that I'd already lived half my life in the wrong body/gender; if this is a mistake, then what's the difference spending the second half of my life in the wrong body/gender?  Only I know it's not a mistake.  I may end up forever single as a result; but there was no guarantee I'd find love before, either.

It was a no brainer for me, but I did my research and did what I had to do FOR ME.  Not for anyone else.


Jay

[Sandy]

For me and for many it was "Transition or die".  I could go on playing a guy on the stage of life and sooner or later my suicide games would work, or I could gamble EVERYTHING on becoming female.  I would not have done it if ANYTHING else would have worked!  I have said as much in my posts and blog here and elsewhere.  But now that I am here I am in love with life.

I have said that this is a "blessing inside a curse" and, to those who are also transsexual, if/when they transitioned, they too would find life a remarkable treasure.

I never downplayed the effort required to walk this path and have been quite upfront about the issues that face people like us.

This is a terrible burden to carry and it can kill if not treated.  Faced with those options, if it sounds like I am saying "Come on it the water's fine!" then my words are being misinterpreted.

I've seen this persons site before and it gives the impression that being transsexual is a curse and no matter what you do about it you will still be cursed.  And that may be their opinion, so be it.  It seems to be trying to convince the author more than anyone reading the site that it is too dangerous to do.

It is dangerous.

So is living.

In death only are we forever out of danger.

I'll take my chances now, thank you.

-Sandy

[Natasha]

as you know, i'm one of those radical women that thinks that if a person is in fact transsexual, s/he will transition fully.  a transgender person may have more "options' but a ts doesn't.  the article? baloney!