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Are we who we think we are?

Started by DawnL, August 31, 2006, 05:31:21 PM

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DawnL

I've gotten to wondering about the fundamental nature of my gender identity.  I identify as a woman and I usually feel like a woman (this is a vague intangible that has nothing to do with feeling feminine).  Occasionally I feel like my old self but those moments are fading and I recognize them as artifacts of my last life.  But I wonder, am I really a woman?  I'm not certain.  I know I'm not a man.  I've always known that.  The binary only allows for two choices.  Many feel the binary is an artificial construct.  What if MTFs and FTMs aren't really in the binary?  Is it possible there is a third gender seperate from the binary?  Maybe we all delude ourselves and fail to recognize that we aren't really men and women but something different (a neutral state, good or bad is not implied).  And if we're not, what are we?  I'm trying to work through this and welcome other thoughts.  It all sounds a bit Kate Bornstein but I am not a gender rebel.  I tend to feel the binary is the correct answer to gender but that is a personal bias influenced by my upbringing.  I don't think there are any right or wrong answers here.

Dawn
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Melissa

First of all, I love your new picture Dawn.  You look beautiful. :)

Second, I understand what you're talking about.  It's also possible we might feel like a third gender because of our odd upbringing.  If we had lived the life of a normal female from the time we were born, would we still feel the same.  Sometimes, I feel like my mental adjustment from one gender to another was so easy that it becomes a little unsettling and surreal.  Why did I adjust so easily in such a short time, when there are people who have been transitioning for years that are taking much longer to adjust?  It makes me question a lot of things.  I question myself, because I want to be sure I am making changes that are right for me.  So, if it was so easy for me, what was different? Is it because I am IS? Or is there much more down the road in terms of adjustment that I can't see yet?  I'm not trying to sound arrogant or anything, it's just questions that go through my head.

I think whether we are female or something else is irrelevant.  The point is that we are adjusting to a life that works well for us.  For people who don't identify with either gender (or both), the changes they go through will be different than ours.  My point is, that our point or origin doesn't really matter as long as we know where our destination is.

Melissa
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beth

              Our history is part of us.  Women who grew up in a male body will have some different thoughts about themselves that genetic women will not have.  I would think it's perfectly normal. I'm sure if we had been lost as babies and raised by wolves, then rescued and brought into human society we would understand we were human but still have memories and feelings regarding the past. That wouldn't mean we wern't human or wish we could go back to living with wolves, it's just part of our history.

beth
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Annwyn

Eh.
Just because there are two mainstream bodily genders, doesn't mean there is any kind of gender of the mind.
Why do I say this?
The mind is incredibly complicated.  We all, male and female, often have to think alike, 2+2=4, not 22.  Things like that, we all have to do that to get certain jobs and all of that.  I think, "oh I'm a boy was born in a girl's body" is a bunch of bull.
I think you can be born in a body that doesn't suit you, and that people do fit genders.  Some of us are more complicated than that though, and won't settle for our birth gender.  They call us transsexuals.  Some of us want nothing more than to be female, for reasons we can't place.  Others of us can see themselves being more expressive, more true from a female form and go through the steps to do such.  Just because you're a transsexual doesn't mean you will always fit into the gender you desire, personalyl I'd rather be a humanoid feline than a Homo sapien.  You can still feel out of place, because you're only changing your gender, which I think is a relatively small thing to change.  So yes, I think you can still be out of place, but perhaps more in place than you were.
So no, you're not really a woman, but you're not really a man either.  You're just another human, who's entirely too concerned with gender:-p
Get a latte and listen to some music, I don't know.
Posted on: August 31, 2006, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: beth on August 31, 2006, 05:53:56 PM
              Our history is part of us.  Women who grew up in a male body will have some different thoughts about themselves that genetic women will not have.  I would think it's perfectly normal. I'm sure if we had been lost as babies and raised by wolves, then rescued and brought into human society we would understand we were human but still have memories and feelings regarding the past. That wouldn't mean we wern't human or wish we could go back to living with wolves, just that is part of our history.
I read a book about a dude like that.
And, wasn't Rome and his brother raised by a wolf?
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cindianna_jones



Born but changed
mind somewhat deranged
I live
I give
I work
I take
I am a drone
in life's beehive

--------------------------
Copyright 2006 Cindi Jones
--------------------------
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Annwyn

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SusanKay140

Yes she is - weird and wonderful, and thank goodness!  And in fact so is Stephanie.

Susan K


Hmmm, the midnight skulking editor (moderator)  has riden by this string and hacked away.  You sometimes have to read fast.
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cindianna_jones

Quote from: Annwyn on August 31, 2006, 08:57:03 PM
Cindi, you're weird.

AMEN!  and thank you.

I write wierd.  In person, I'm quite loveable.  ;)

Cindi
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Annwyn

You weird queer unnormal humans.  Leave this normal straight and absolutely innocent martian alone!
-hisses at you-
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cindianna_jones

Quote from: Annwyn on August 31, 2006, 09:13:42 PM
You weird queer unnormal humans.  Leave this normal straight and absolutely innocent martian alone!
-hisses at you-

Now look, we can just use a little Elmer's patch N fill to cover up those green scales. Then we apply a little dermablend. 

This brunette wig will be nice, we'll have to use tape since you have no hair on your head to clip it to...

Now, what shall we do with those eyes that blink sideways?  Hmmm... .perhpas a hat with a big brim?

We can paint some lips here where humans have them.  We'll use a nice bright color to hide that pasty look we created on the rest of your face.

And those feet.  No, pumps will not do, since you have three very large toes.  Look, we can just put you in a very long skirt so that won't be an issue.

There you go.  You look great!

Cindi

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Annwyn

Quote from: Cindianna_Jones on August 31, 2006, 09:20:42 PM
Quote from: Annwyn on August 31, 2006, 09:13:42 PM
You weird queer unnormal humans.  Leave this normal straight and absolutely innocent martian alone!
-hisses at you-

Now look, we can just use a little Elmer's patch N fill to cover up those green scales. Then we apply a little dermablend. 

This brunette wig will be nice, we'll have to use tape since you have no hair on your head to clip it to...

Now, what shall we do with those eyes that blink sideways?  Hmmm... .perhpas a hat with a big brim?

We can paint some lips here where humans have them.  We'll use a nice bright color to hide that pasty look we created on the rest of your face.

And those feet.  No, pumps will not do, since you have three very large toes.  Look, we can just put you in a very long skirt so that won't be an issue.

There you go.  You look great!

Cindi


WAHAHAHAAA
You transformed me!
:)
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Mario

Dawn,
    First off, I like your new picture, although the gutair was very cool. What you say makes alot of sence. Though I feel male, there are times if only for a moment I think, what am I really? I guess it is due to all the old memories, but also I think if we are faced to look upon our bodies for face value, we are sometimes sold short on ourselves, depending where on is in transition that is.

                                                Marco
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cindianna_jones

I like Dawn's new pic as well.  She's pretty cute no?

Cindi
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nonie

I have been wondering kind of thing a little too.  I know I feel male.  But I kinda feel male with some feminine traits.  I guess I don't think that makes me any less male, though.  There are wide variances in the behavior of genetic people of the same sex, and I'm certain we all fall into that spectrum somewhere.  If we didn't we would be androgyne, and that probably wouldn't have a strong enough urge to be a cetrain sex to really cause us to transition, I think.  Seems like the intensity of the urge should be more than enough to validify your actual gender.
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Buffy

Yeah... Dawn's pic looks great, but I also liked the rock chick pic as well.

I have also pondered her initial question many times....... I consider myself to be a blend of both the best of female traits and good male experiences.

I can never be totally female, but Identify wholly as a woman...... ::)   I could never go back to being a guy.

Am I something in bewteen, maybe?, probably?.... But personally I don't care.

I can never deny my past, that effectively shaped the person that I am today and I have memories (good memories) that I only could have experienced as a male.

I am still that same person, I just live a different life than I did before and thats the important thing  as it is the life that I wanted.

Rebecca

;D

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cindianna_jones

Yes Buffy, that is the bottom line.  I'm a eunuch.  But I live my life as a female and that's how people treat me. And that suits me just fine. That's what really counts after all is said and done here.

Cindi
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Melissa

Yeah, a eunuch with breasts.  >:D

I'm the same person, just without the false shell I was living in.  I sometimes think some of the people in my life loved my shell more than me.  :-\

Melissa
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Rana

You cannot blame them for that Melissa, its the shell that is presented to the world and the realitity within, well that is often hidden very well :(

Was reading about these lizards that are found in North America, there are 3 types of males.  Normal one with an orange throat; a hyped & beefed up extra agressive male with a red throat; and another male with a blue throat indistinguishable from a female lizard.
Previously Annwynn mentioned "its all about sex" and is with those lizards a sort of paper rock sissors thing.  The normal male orange lizard bosses "his" female lizards about till a beefed up red one appears - they fight for dominance sadly the result is a foregone conclusion.  While all this sort of drama is going on - a blue lizard can appear who believes in making love not war.
I would love to look and sound and move as a woman, a graceful smooth body, and with the added bonus of being able to dress elegantly - but underneath it all I dont really wish to stop being a man.
What does this make me- some sort of fraud, or just confused & anxious??   I dunno

Rana
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Annwyn

Quote from: Rana on September 01, 2006, 08:45:58 AM

What does this make me- some sort of fraud, or just confused & anxious??   I dunno
YAY!!!
-claps-
Good good, a TS with a reality check and who's not only one because she's failing miserably as a man!
YAY!
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Rana

Laughs.  Annwyn I'll have you know that I can play the role of a man quite well :)  its just that I want to express that  extra dimension, and I envy the look and role women get to play (well maybe not all aspects.  My wife told me that when she reached puberty & was faced with the reality of menstration, she regretted not being a boy)

Geez who am I kidding - I play the role very well,  the reality is a different matter - and I know that there are those that can see right through the sham :(
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