Question about the RLT

[IanToxic]

Sooo I'm sure these questions are gonna be a bit stupid and I'm sorry lol I was going to ask my shrink buuuut with the way things are going who knows when I'll be able to get that chance besides! I'd probably be better off asking here. I was reading about the real life test or experience the other day and there were a few things I didn't really get. It said 3 months but I've also heard people say 12 months does anyone know which one it is now? also for the proof part what exactly counts as proof?...should I pull out the video camera?! lol just kidding but lets say for example I started living as male about 2 years ago at least and as much as possible the only time i get seen as female is if someone i'm with refers to me by my female name or i get all super girly and talk normally lol cause my voice is quite high so that doesn't help but the majority of people im with friends and most of my family refer to me as male and know about the trans ->-bleeped-<-  so basically the question is what counts as proof? would my shrink talking to my friends and/or family count or is there something else? lol I don't really see any other way to "prove" your living as male besides that.

[Flan]

If it's to get on T, the SOC says either 3 months as a guy (rle) or 3 months worth of therapy.
from the wiki: https://www.susans.org/wiki/Standards_of_Care_for_Gender_Identity_Disorders#The_Real-Life_Experience

Parameters of the Real-Life Experience

When clinicians assess the quality of a person's real-life experience in the desired gender, the following abilities are reviewed:

   1. To maintain full or part-time employment;
   2. To function as a student;
   3. To function in community-based volunteer activity;
   4. To undertake some combination of items 1-3;
   5. To acquire a (legal) gender-identity-appropriate first name;
   6. To provide documentation that persons other than the therapist know that the patient functions in the desired gender role

For top surgery it's the same 3 months for either (being on T is optional)
Bottom surgery is 12 months (on T) and 2 letters of recommendation

hope that helps

[IanToxic]

That's massively helpful! thanks a whole bunch   

[Renate]

Just to nit-pick...

Being on hormones per se is not part of RLE.
RLE is supposed to be proof that you can "walk the walk" with or without hormones.
Taking hormones secretly is hardly proof of ability to maintain a social role.
(On the other hand, many surgeons will require that you have been on hormones some period of time.)

As stated above, documentation of RLE is important.
Stating that you started wearing the jeans of whatever gender last June is hardly proof.
The best would be a letter from your employer or school acknowledging your full-time transition.
Legal documentation of a name change would also be good.

[sneakersjay]

FWIW, nobody asked me for proof of RLT.  I got my T letter a couple of months after starting therapy, changed my name 4 months after starting therapy, and had top surgery 6 months after starting therapy, which could have been sooner, just a scheduling issue with getting time off work that meshed with Brownstein's schedule.

Maybe it would be an issue for bottom surgery, but since most FTMs can't afford it right off, or just don't want it, i don't know.

I think they are a bit stricter with the ladies, because I think the general population thinks it's nuts to want to lop off the mighty penis, thus making more hoops for the ladies to jump through before having SRS.  And dressing feminine for male-bodied people is far less acceptable than women dressing like men; I think it's much harder for the ladies to express themselves by wearing feminine clothing, makeup, and jewelry to work if they're not out, but guys can wear what they want and nobody bats an eyelash. 

Just my opinion from the sidelines.


Jay

[myles]

I also was not asked for "proof" of RLT or RLE for T or top surgery (scheduled at this point) either.
Myles

[IanToxic]

"As stated above, documentation of RLE is important.
Stating that you started wearing the jeans of whatever gender last June is hardly proof.
The best would be a letter from your employer or school acknowledging your full-time transition.
Legal documentation of a name change would also be good."

Damn I'm not going to school till at least another 2 years and I rather not come out to an employer lol I already have enough problems that screw up my luck there. The most I could get is the name change stuff haha hopefully they won't be too needy about the proof then but I dunno my therapy place seems a bit stupid when it comes transsexuals lol so just my luck they'll be uber hardcore by the book and i won't get anything done with them till I'm 30 xD lol but I do have to add for the one jeans comment that wasn't what I met when it comes to that stuff I haven't dressed "feminine" since I was a baby and had no choice lol now if only my mom would remove these photos from her living room everything would be great xD but no I meant I came out as trans when I was 16 to most people cept my mom which I'm waiting to do for very good reasons. I was hoping to start transitioning when I was 18 lol but things didn't work out so great lack of money, lost my insurance, blah blah blah lol but basically all I have is people stating that I'm living as male and have been for a few years lol

[Flameboy]

Damn I'm not going to school till at least another 2 years and I rather not come out to an employer lol I already have enough problems that screw up my luck there. The most I could get is the name change stuff haha hopefully they won't be too needy about the proof then but I dunno my therapy place seems a bit stupid when it comes transsexuals lol so just my luck they'll be uber hardcore by the book and i won't get anything done with them till I'm 30 xD lol but I do have to add for the one jeans comment that wasn't what I met when it comes to that stuff I haven't dressed "feminine" since I was a baby and had no choice lol now if only my mom would remove these photos from her living room everything would be great xD but no I meant I came out as trans when I was 16 to most people cept my mom which I'm waiting to do for very good reasons. I was hoping to start transitioning when I was 18 lol but things didn't work out so great lack of money, lost my insurance, blah blah blah lol but basically all I have is people stating that I'm living as male and have been for a few years lol

I'm sorry if this comes across as being harsh, but to me if you're not living and working as male, you're not full time! So, if you're still working in a female role, I would say you're not actually living as male, and therefore it's not RLE. Additionally, if you haven't changed you name legally, you're not full time either.

In the UK, the main time we need to provide proof is when applying for our Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC). For that, we need to have been living full time for at least 2 years, and provide proof in the way of letters from 2 doctors (at least one of which must be a gender specialist), name change documentation (deed poll or statutory declaration) and 2 other forms of proof such as a letter from your employer or a utility bill or bank statement dated more than 2 years earlier. If you haven't got those things then you won't get a GRC, it's as simple as that.

In terms of getting hormones, whilst we don't necessarilly have to provide documentary proof, I did have to provide my name change documentation, and I did get my employer to write to the Gender Identity Clinic stating I'd been working there as male since the date I'd started. Of course, the system is different in different countries, and it might be that your psych will be happy to accept that you're living full time without a name change or telling your employer, depending on your circumstances.

[IanToxic]

lol well for the full time thing I'm not working right now so that's you know kinda cancels that one out and as for living the only person that doesn't know is my mom and like I said I have pretty good reasons for not telling her just yet but honestly if she doesn't know by now she's either dense or in denial and I worry about coming out to an employer cause quite frankly I have enough spastic quirks to drive any employer crazy haha I don't think adding Transsexual to there list would be very helpful to me lol I dunno I'm probably gonna have to do it anyways unless I get massively lucky and like 10k magically falls from the sky lol I just hate the risk of losing a job specially when I'm having such a hard time finding one.

[Jeatyn]

In regards to employment, I'm not on T yet but I changed my name a while ago and whenever it comes to filling in forms I always tick male. Nobody has said anything. Your potential employer doesn't have to know you're trans. It's actually easier that you don't have a job at the moment, you can be male with a new one right off the bat.

[Mister]

For top surgery it's the same 3 months for either (being on T is optional)
Bottom surgery is 12 months (on T) and 2 letters of recommendation

Wrong. 

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

I obtained both top and bottom surgery without letters of any sort.  It happens all the time.  RLE is not NECESSARY.  EVER.  Even if your therapist <3's SOC, it's a guideline.  Within the SOC, there is a clearly written exception to RLE for those who cannot pass pre-T. 

Read the standards of care as they're written.

[Flan]

While it's pretty east to get top surgery and hysto minus surgery letter, (and in the case of top surgery, have it paid by insurance as a "cancer preventive") as far as Phallo/Metoidio, just try getting surgery from McGinn (as example) minus letters. enough said

[Mister]

While it's pretty east to get top surgery and hysto minus surgery letter, (and in the case of top surgery, have it paid by insurance as a "cancer preventive") as far as Phallo/Metoidio, just try getting surgery from McGinn (as example) minus letters. enough said

McGinn gave a dude seven fistulas in a 2" urethra.  Why would I go to her, letters or not?