questions about spironolactone?

[MaggieB]

If you want a DHT blocker, saw palmetto does that pretty well. I took hundreds and hundreds of those before I moved on to stronger stuff.

BTW, on the subject of the other drugs, while you can get these meds on line w/o a prescription, they are all pretty heavy meds and can really cause major problems if you aren't being monitored by a physician.  Serious stuff. Self medication is really a last resort.  What good is having boobs when you are drooling from a stroke?

The most dangerous drug that I was willing to try as an anti-androgen when I was not at the place where my family would allow me to seek care for being trans was cimetidine.  It is Tagamet and available over the counter.  It does block testosterone and does cause breast development.   Spiro isn't cheap but the cimetine actually cost me more and it isn't as effective.  I took 1800 mgs a day of cimetidne but when I look back at it, it was a stupid thing to do.  I should have done it according to HBS and WPATH. I was desperate and had no family backing.  When my GID became crippling, I finally got help and from a doctor.

Maggie

[Tammy Hope]

Well, I'm not thinking directly of self-medication - I'm thinking of something a doctor would prescribe for a condition I actually have which happens to be available generically and, happily, has a transition friendly side effect.

I've seen differing opinions about SP

the side effects I'm interested in are first and foremost effects on body hair, secondly combating thinning on top and thirdly breast effects.

But I'm not considering going outside the system - money would prevent that if nothing else.

[MaggieB]

When I first took Saw Palmetto for an enlarged prostate, in a matter of weeks I noticed that my body hair sprouted out all over the place.  My head hair was receding fast too before that.  The problem with blocking DHT is that it then causes a higher level of testosterone because DHT is a breakdown product of T.  The hair came out was male pattern hair that was no longer being inhibited by DHT. 

Spiro is pretty well tolerated and while most non trans educated doctors don't ever prescribe it, it is common as salt in most transwomen I know.  I still take it because I have high blood pressure and my wife has edema. Spiro works for both of us in that way.  I don't need an anti androgen. 

The body hair that I do have today is very fine, like a baby's and not the long coarse stuff that I used to have.  It is so fine that I rarely have to epilate my legs or arms.  Maybe once every six weeks. It used to be every weekend. Oh, I probably said it before but my head hair seems to have stopped receding and the thinning areas seem to have light hair returning.  Not all get this though. I think it depends on how long the follicles had exposure to DHT.

[Tammy Hope]

When I first took Saw Palmetto for an enlarged prostate, in a matter of weeks I noticed that my body hair sprouted out all over the place. My head hair was receding fast too before that.  The problem with blocking DHT is that it then causes a higher level of testosterone because DHT is a breakdown product of T.  The hair came out was male pattern hair that was no longer being inhibited by DHT. 

Oh my lord NO! the LAST thing I need is MORE body hair!!!

Spiro is pretty well tolerated and while most non trans educated doctors don't ever prescribe it, it is common as salt in most transwomen I know.  I still take it because I have high blood pressure and my wife has edema. Spiro works for both of us in that way.  I don't need an anti androgen. 

One wonders if one could ask a doctor who was considering treating blood pressure if they would use spiro to treat it.
I'm still a bit confused about the effects of spiro alone (as opposed to in conjunction with some sort of E)

My thoughts keep running to the idea of trying to get on spiro as soon as possible even if it's a year or two before I get on E in order to try to deal with the hair issues (and also to find out what hair I can lose that way before I ever pay for laser to remove something unnecessarily)

The body hair that I do have today is very fine, like a baby's and not the long coarse stuff that I used to have.  It is so fine that I rarely have to epilate my legs or arms.  Maybe once every six weeks. It used to be every weekend.

This is the sort of thing I'm interested in....fewer hairs, hairs in fewer places, and less coarse hair where it does exist.

(of course, I'm also greatly impatient to get an epilator when I have the spare cash)

[CharleneT]

Oh my lord NO! the LAST thing I need is MORE body hair!!!One wonders if one could ask a doctor who was considering treating blood pressure if they would use spiro to treat it.
I'm still a bit confused about the effects of spiro alone (as opposed to in conjunction with some sort of E)

Careful, the effects of S.P. and a DHT blocker like Avodart are not the same.  Important note:  the DHT blockers do not stop testosterone production, rather they stop testosterone from attaching to the receptor sites.  Hence your free testosterone value may go up at first.  As for doc's scripting Spiro it may vary as to what they think, it is an old drug for blood pressure and newer ones work better.  I'd be honest about the reason you want it.  They are likely to be ok with TS/TG status. 

Spiro alone will basically shut down testosterone production after a while ( hence why a combo of Spiro and Avodart is so popular , you're getting rid of T at both ends of the process).  Spiro can trigger some other feminization  things, just not as well as Estrogen.  Remember that one of the common side effects off Spiro is reduced or eliminated libido.

My thoughts keep running to the idea of trying to get on spiro as soon as possible even if it's a year or two before I get on E in order to try to deal with the hair issues (and also to find out what hair I can lose that way before I ever pay for laser to remove something unnecessarily)
This is the sort of thing I'm interested in....fewer hairs, hairs in fewer places, and less coarse hair where it does exist.

(of course, I'm also greatly impatient to get an epilator when I have the spare cash)

hmm... not sure Spiro is the best for that hair issue.  I have a friend who uses a DHT blocker solely for hair issues and it leaves the libido intact.  Something to consider.  IF it is possible for you to borrow someone's epilator I would recommend it.  They work well for some and not at all for others.  Somewhere inbetween for most.

[Tammy Hope]

As for doc's scripting Spiro it may vary as to what they think, it is an old drug for blood pressure and newer ones work better.  I'd be honest about the reason you want it.  They are likely to be ok with TS/TG status.

Well, my BP is borderline so "doesn't work as well" would be alright - and my doc knows about me and didn't react negatively so she'd be sympathetic to the reasons probably.

Spiro can trigger some other feminization  things, just not as well as Estrogen.  Remember that one of the common side effects off Spiro is reduced or eliminated libido.

Yeah, I've thought about that - particularly about the ability for erection. One part of me kind of likes the idea that this would be a "side effect" that I had no control over (i.e. "not my fault") as far as my wife is concerned...and another part of me is pretty uncomfortable with the idea of being sneaky about that.

I have a friend who uses a DHT blocker solely for hair issues and it leaves the libido intact.  Something to consider.

That wold certainly be an ideal outcome. Depending of course on the cost of the drug and so forth.

Albeit, if it were possible to get feminzing side effects from anything and still be able to achieve erection for her sake that would be the best of all.

[CharleneT]

It's hard to get the best of both worlds with feminizing hormones ( pun intended )


Char