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The Bathroom Debate - Who's Rights Matter Most?

Started by Julie Marie, June 08, 2009, 06:09:59 PM

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Annwyn

Did the ponies use the ponies restroom or the horsies restroom?
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tekla

As I recall from my farm days they go where they stand.  And a lot.  Really, a lot.  Impressive almost. 
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Lacey Lynne

Quote from: TamTam on June 08, 2009, 06:39:47 PM
Well, here is my opinion on things, as a gg.

If someone walks into the bathroom who looks like, or is presenting as female, I'm perfectly comfortable.  It's not the genitals that bother me really, it's the presentation.  As long as you're somewhere on some kind of female spectrum, I'm not uncomfortable.

However, one time I was using a gender neutral bathroom with stalls, and a man walked in and used the stall next to me.  [I knew it was a man because I heard him speaking as he walked in, and then I saw his sneakers and the bottom of his pants and he peed standing up.]  I felt very uncomfortable.  And I actually thought about why I felt so uncomfortable, as I was sitting there [I waited for him to leave because it would have been really awkward to wash my hands next to him.  I didn't know if he even knew I was there.].  It wasn't something I would have expected to bother me so much.

I came to the conclusion that it was the fact that I was not used to being in that situation and it made me feel, instinctively, a little unsafe.  Women are very vulnerable in public bathrooms.  "Don't go to the bathroom by yourself because a creepster might hit you over the head and rape you or peek under the door at you."  It's pounded into our heads so we can be a little paranoid.  But I didn't get upset because it was a gender neutral bathroom.  I had to suck it up, there was nothing I had the right to even complain about.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. :)

Brace Yourselves:

Profound perceptual paradigm shifts CAN occur in the mere "blink of an eye."

Consider this:   Yours truly is a MTF Transsexual who is in therapy but has not yet begun HRT.  Hence, she still presents as a genetic guy.  So, what does that have to do with this thread?  Just this:

I've sunbathed, swam, showered ... and USED RESTROOMS ... with hundreds (thousands on major holidays) of people of mixed biological sex (in bascially equal proportions) all day long, NEARLY EVERYBODY WAS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY NUDE, ... and NOBODY was upset, freaked or concerned?

Think I'm kidding?  I'm not.  I live in Metro Tampa Florida, USA.  Rather nearby in Pasco County, we have three major clothing-optional resorts.  I regularly go to the very best of the batch, Caliente (Check out the website www.CalienteResorts.com and especially click on the TAMPA icon that you'll see there.  Also, the images on that website WILL change if you just wait a few seconds in order for them to change.)  These people who go there are from all over the world right out of the general population. 

I want you to REALLY think about that and what it means.  It means that by making a mere decision, which takes only a split second, we can alleviate profound societal conditioning, profound societal taboos and profound societal no-nos.  Yes, I know:  Easy to say.  Hard to do.


The key?  Education.  The transpeople who are really out there non-stealth and unashamed (Christine Jorgensen from the 1950s, Renee Richards from the 1970s, Donna Rose in the 2000s) are the bellwether teachers who are leading the way to opening the minds of the public. 

Now, I know that "The Bathroom Issue" discussed on this thread will not magically transmogrify into mere insignificance due to mass public acceptance anytime soon.  The quote from TamTam above states exactly why.  However, I predict that in the next few decades, things are going to ease up TREMENDOUSLY regarding this issue in particular and trans issues in general.  Why?  Again, because of those leading-edge transpeople who are educating the general populace.  I offer a hale and hearty salute to every one of you.

Think it can't happen that fast or easily?  Yours truly is age 53.5.  I can tell you for a definite fact that President Barak Obama would not have had a snowball's chance in hell of even being nominated for President, let alone being elected, in my younger years.  Trust me, the anti-black prejudice was as strong as the anti-trans prejudice.  We older gals here remember the 1960s race riots, the Deep South rednecks, the Northern bohunks.  Oh, yes.  We've seen miracles happen.  Obama as President proves it.

There IS hope on this issue ... TREMENDOUS hope!  Hugs!    :)

Post Merge: June 25, 2009, 06:20:10 AM

The mind-blower's mind-blower:

Considering the comment just above, imagine undergoing the gradual physical effects of HRT ... right out in such a venue ... as naked as the minute you were born ... for all to see and contemplate.  Ain't THAT some crap?  Takes transition, passing and presenting many quantum jumps beyond the norm, eh wot?  When I told this to my therapist, this blew even her mind, and she's a nationally-recognized expert in transsexual issues whose practice is soley dedicated to counseling transpeople, and she's been doing that for 25+ years!  She just laughed out loud and took a few seconds to regain her composure!

Honeys, yours truly is gonna do that doo-doo!  Wish me luck!  I'm gonna need it!  "Holy Crap, Marge!  Look!  It's The Caliente ->-bleeped-<-!"   

Hugs!
    ::)
Believe.  Persist.  Arrive.    :D



Julie Vu (Princess Joules) Rocks!  "Hi, Sunshine Sparkle Faces!" she says!
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Renate

Well, that's fine if you want to be a nudist.

I don't want to see naked men, heck I don't even want to see men without their shirts on.
I don't want to use a restroom with urinals in it.
I don't want to see a man handling his genitals even if his back is towards me.

If there were unisex restrooms with only stalls in it, with floor to ceiling dividers that might be one thing.
Even so, a women's room is a place for fixing makeup and hair.
You wouldn't do that at a restaurant table, why would you do it in front of strange men?

So, put me down as a firm supporter of gendered restrooms.
I'll leave the issue of who is allowed in which to braver souls.
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xsocialworker

I know the therapist from the post about going nude in Pasco Co. She is a fantastic person . Sorry, but I never got to make it there and doubt I will. But have a ball.
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Lacey Lynne

Quote from: Renate on June 25, 2009, 07:19:33 PM
Well, that's fine if you want to be a nudist.

I don't want to see naked men, heck I don't even want to see men without their shirts on.
I don't want to use a restroom with urinals in it.
I don't want to see a man handling his genitals even if his back is towards me.

If there were unisex restrooms with only stalls in it, with floor to ceiling dividers that might be one thing.
Even so, a women's room is a place for fixing makeup and hair.
You wouldn't do that at a restaurant table, why would you do it in front of strange men?

So, put me down as a firm supporter of gendered restrooms.
I'll leave the issue of who is allowed in which to braver souls.

Renate:

Know what?  I TOTALLY agree with you!  First, I tolerate the guys there because I have no choice.  Second, Caliente's restrooms ARE separate.  In fact, Paradise Lakes and Lake Como's restrooms are also separate.  These are the three major Pasco County C.O. resorts. 

The point you are making is a matter of PRIVACY!  And, yes, I agree with you all the way.  I really do.  Thanks for commenting, and hugs!    :)

Post Merge: June 26, 2009, 06:41:42 AM

Quote from: xsocialworker on June 25, 2009, 07:45:51 PM
I know the therapist from the post about going nude in Pasco Co. She is a fantastic person . Sorry, but I never got to make it there and doubt I will. But have a ball.

She IS awesome, isn't she?  Thanks for your kind comments!  Hugs!    :)
Believe.  Persist.  Arrive.    :D



Julie Vu (Princess Joules) Rocks!  "Hi, Sunshine Sparkle Faces!" she says!
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xsocialworker

This post seems to never end. But-----------if we are discussing therapy------as far as I know,if you are transitioning by the Benjamin Standards, you are expected to live for one year as your destination gender. I believe that means using the restroom that corresponds to your presentation. When I went F/T on March 15, 2001, I never entered a men's room again. I felt to do so would be hedging my bets.

PS-----That super therapist has a bi-weekly support group in her area.
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Lacey Lynne

Quote from: xsocialworker on June 26, 2009, 09:32:35 AM
This post seems to never end. But-----------if we are discussing therapy------as far as I know,if you are transitioning by the Benjamin Standards, you are expected to live for one year as your destination gender. I believe that means using the restroom that corresponds to your presentation. When I went F/T on March 15, 2001, I never entered a men's room again. I felt to do so would be hedging my bets.

PS-----That super therapist has a bi-weekly support group in her area.

To xsocialworker:

Hi, Hon!  Yes, sigh, this post DOES seem to go on and on; you're right.  Like you, when I finally DO go F/T, I plan to never enter a men's restroom again for the reason you stated.  Also, yes, said therapist DOES have said support groups.  She's not yet invited me to them, but I'm not worried about that.  I'm not really a "group type" person and am, obviously, more of a maverick. 

Actually, I'll see her again this upcoming Monday for another therapy session!  She's mentioned to me about starting hair-removal procedures before starting hormone replacement therapy, SOOO, I'm doing that and anticipating the latter!

Thanks for your kind comments!  May peace and happiness be yours!  Hugs!    :)
Believe.  Persist.  Arrive.    :D



Julie Vu (Princess Joules) Rocks!  "Hi, Sunshine Sparkle Faces!" she says!
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xsocialworker

Tell her the EX-Social Worker said hello. She should know who that is. We worked for the same company for many years.

Post Merge: June 27, 2009, 07:53:58 AM

Mention the "IDES OF MARCH"
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Lacey Lynne

Quote from: xsocialworker on June 27, 2009, 07:51:49 AM
Tell her the EX-Social Worker said hello. She should know who that is. We worked for the same company for many years.

Post Merge: June 27, 2009, 07:53:58 AM

Mention the "IDES OF MARCH"

Consider it a "done deal," Hon.  She'll be very happy to know how well-regarded she is!  Hugs!    :)
Believe.  Persist.  Arrive.    :D



Julie Vu (Princess Joules) Rocks!  "Hi, Sunshine Sparkle Faces!" she says!
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