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Getitng Ma'amed Without Getting Glammed

Started by Julie Marie, June 10, 2009, 07:51:37 PM

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The None Blonde

I didn't say be plain... It was advice for those that dont pass, and want to improve thier chances I guess....

Here, Lots of girls wear sweat pants and hoodies... hell I am today (I'm sick *weak cough*) It's comfy... it involves no effort... yay!) Whereas sometimes i'll dress up nice and pretty... but for class its often not worth the effort. To go shopping or out? sure.

There comes a point where you reach a level of comfort with yourself about you. And you dress how you want. If you pass... its a new style, or your style, if you dont... i guess it may out some because of the attention it draws. However, My intial thought process was aimed towards apropriateness.... the 'teen experimentation' can be an at home, or out thing... we all do it, but we've also been looking at other women our age. Some fubar, some dont. It's just random.

*sneaks away before the femininity patrol lynch her for wearing no makeup either.*
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Naturally Blonde

Quote from: The None Blonde on October 27, 2009, 05:10:33 AM
I didn't say be plain... It was advice for those that dont pass, and want to improve thier chances I guess....

Here, Lots of girls wear sweat pants and hoodies... hell I am today (I'm sick *weak cough*) It's comfy... it involves no effort... yay!) Whereas sometimes i'll dress up nice and pretty... but for class its often not worth the effort. To go shopping or out? sure.

There comes a point where you reach a level of comfort with yourself about you. And you dress how you want. If you pass... its a new style, or your style, if you dont... i guess it may out some because of the attention it draws. However, My intial thought process was aimed towards apropriateness.... the 'teen experimentation' can be an at home, or out thing... we all do it, but we've also been looking at other women our age. Some fubar, some dont. It's just random.

*sneaks away before the femininity patrol lynch her for wearing no makeup either.*

Yes I agree and I mostly wear jeans, sweat pants, T shirts, hoodies and trainers (sneakers). I rarely wear make up and I'm not percieved as male.

I do think that many transsexuals dress like ->-bleeped-<-s and do not have any insight or experience on how to dress normally and they usually stick out like a sore thumb! the original thread highlights the fact that the poster is surprised they are not getting read in their old jeans and no make up etc. But in reality the majority of females are not dressed up like a dogs dinner all the time and many do not wear make up. There are a lot of transsexuals who have a stereotype view of a female which shows in the way they dress.

An outsiders perception of a male or female is related more with a persons physical appearance and not their clothing or make up. 
Living in the real world, not a fantasy
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The None Blonde

heh, I think TV is more to blame....  the women showed on tv are always glam... plus the way that the glossies hound celebs that go out in jeans and a teeshirt and no makeup....
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Tammy Hope

I see what you girls are talking about when it comes to the GG's I see every day. The problem for me is that I'm not only not built like a GG but my weight gives me a VERY sterotypycal male profile - androgynous just doesn't work for me from the neck down - I have too much to compensate for.

A lot of the GG's around me can be chubby or outright fat and pretty, excuse me for saying so, homely looking - but there's no doubt of their gender.

But if I don't give the observer ANY fem cues with makeup or whatever, there is NO WAY I'm giving off any sort of fem vibe. At most they would consider me gay (speech pattern and mannerisms and such)
Disclaimer: due to serious injury, most of my posts are made via Dragon Dictation which sometimes butchers grammar and mis-hears my words. I'm also too lazy to closely proof-read which means some of my comments will seem strange.


http://eachvoicepub.com/PaintedPonies.php
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K8

When I was CD (repressing being TS) I found that many CDs and TVs would get stuck in a fashion era or age.  People my age would want to dress in crinoline and poodle skirts and angora sweaters.  (When's the last time you saw that outfit at Wal-Mart?)  Or, like some GGs, they would get stuck at some age – dressing as a 15 year-old when in their 40s.  It isn't a pretty sight.  I don't know enough other TS's in person to know if they (we) do the same thing.

When I came out to my adult daughter and showed her a picture of me in skirt and heels and satiny blouse (and full beard), she remarked with some surprise: "Oh! You dress age-appropriate."

I often dress a little nicer than many women do around here, but I dress my age and within the normal range.  I do sometimes wear jeans and T (no sweatshirts, thank you), but I figure I have to work a little harder to present a female image than many natal women do.  And I've always dressed up a little, even when I was pretending to be a man.  That's just me. ::)

(Ignore the avatar picture taken on slob day. :P)

- Kate
Life is a pilgrimage.
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aubrey

I love how there is this assumption that once we are "comfortable" with ourselves and the novelty of the "teen phase" wears off we stop caring how we look. There's also an assumption that if you aren't doing that you must look like a classic street walking TV/CD. If you wear makeup more than for special occasions or work etc...then you're not normal...uh oh! If you don't know how to dress yourself or apply makeup then sure...I could see how that might be true. Ever think that you're trying so hard to fit in that somewhere along the way you overcompensated too much in the OTHER direction? Sure...there's a time and a place, but how often? Go ahead and be the type of woman that you want to be and I'll go ahead being the type I want to be.
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Alyssa M.

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on October 27, 2009, 10:36:00 AMthe original thread highlights the fact that the poster is surprised they are not getting read in their old jeans and no make up etc. But in reality the majority of females are not dressed up like a dogs dinner all the time and many do not wear make up. There are a lot of transsexuals who have a stereotype view of a female which shows in the way they dress.

Oh, I see what you're getting at. That makes sense. I think I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. You're talking about figuring out what is appropriate; my struggle has been figuring out what looks decent on me, assuming that it's the appropriate for the situation. And that's much easier when "appropriate" means "dressy."

So, yes, I can go out in jeans and a tee shirt and no makeup (assuming that I'm at a good place in the laser cycle and don't have any beard shadow), but that's because I've spent a lot of time finding the right jeans and the right tee shirts (plus the right boring, everyday shoes) that look reasonably feminine -- on me -- without being the slightest bit dressy.

Or maybe I do err toward looking like a prostitute or a drag queen, but I'm just not all that girly to begin with, so I just end up on the femmy side of appropriate. That would make sense, since my friends seem to think I'm girlier than I think I am. :icon_2gun: :icon_chick:

----

p.s. -- mija -- I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what NB and NB were saying. "There comes a point where you reach a level of comfort with yourself about you. And you dress how you want," seems to me to mean something more like "you become confident and adept in choosing your own style rather than mimicking others" rather than "eventually you become a slob."
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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The None Blonde

Quote from: mija on October 28, 2009, 12:12:57 AM
I love how there is this assumption that once we are "comfortable" with ourselves and the novelty of the "teen phase" wears off we stop caring how we look. There's also an assumption that if you aren't doing that you must look like a classic street walking TV/CD. If you wear makeup more than for special occasions or work etc...then you're not normal...uh oh! If you don't know how to dress yourself or apply makeup then sure...I could see how that might be true. Ever think that you're trying so hard to fit in that somewhere along the way you overcompensated too much in the OTHER direction? Sure...there's a time and a place, but how often? Go ahead and be the type of woman that you want to be and I'll go ahead being the type I want to be.
As I said hon, that's not what I'm saying...
I wear makeup.... I dress nicely.... I just dress the oposite way too at times...  My point was that when you get to a certain point, you have asymilated to the female social way of thinking.... how things are done...... my point was you learn where its apropriate for these things,.... one doesnt wear a cocktail dress to change a tyre right? A woman is confident in herself, be it in makeup or not.

Some women can build up a makeup shield... hide behind it, live in  a mask. It gives them confidence. But women and men are the same really... deep down. We're just human, and we live, sometimes, we can't be bothered... sometimes, we want to impress. The fact we can choose to go to the store in no makeup and a pair of jeans is not a sign that we relinquish femininity, or dont ever dress differently. It's that we can... and that we are confident enough in ourselves, as women to just live.

Life is a catwalk.... but someone has to bolt that stage together first and strike it after :P
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dyssonance

QuoteMy point was that when you get to a certain point, you have asymilated to the female social way of thinking.... how things are done......

The issue I think you may be missing is the inherent judgement in that quote above, None Blonde.

I assimilated to a female way of thinking about the age of four. I transitioned some 37 years later.

Assimilating to *the* female way of thinking requires, inherently, that there be a singular sort of way that females think.  Note that in my statement above I said "a way" not "the way" -- the difference may be minor, and some could say that I'm arguing semantics.

They'd be right.

Semantics is a huge part of my work, though, and semantics is all about *meaning* -- a semantic argument is an argument about meaning -- what does someone mean.

That phrase I quoted is, strictly speaking, meaning there is a right way to think and a wrong way.

I often say there are 3 billion ways to be a woman.  Because there are three billion women, and no two are alike.

I am a woman who is accused -- exclusively by transfolk -- of being "too sexy" and dressing "too provocatively".  This isn't because I have a stereotype of how a woman should be or dress, but I have a strong sense of my identity and I am simply expressing it.

I don't own a gown. I do own a lot of nice dresses, some risque, and I'm just as likely to wear a VS mid thigh strappy dress to the store as I am to wear one of the three pairs of jeans and half a dozen t shirts I own.

Not because there is a problem with wearing hoodies and sweats, but because I don't find hoodies and sweats all that comfy. I'll take my knit dress over that any day. Neither of them have any real effect on a person's *own* perceived sense of femininity -- but they have a lot of effect on the perceptions of others.  Hence the statement you made about "the way" instead of "a way".

And I attract attention when I walk through a store. A lot of it.  And, to be frank, I like it -- because I have a pretty good idea what people are thinking since during my phase where I was nearly paralyzed by fear over such, I decided to start asking people.

This makes me difficult for some trans folk to be around. They don't want to be seen.  They don't want to be noticed.  They want to live as a "normal" person -- to be commonplace, ordinary, average, everyday.

Nothing wrong with that, either.

Except for me.  I am not normal.  Or ordinary. Or everyday, or typical, or commonplace.  I'm also a catty high maintenance sort of gal with champagne tastes and tap water budget, lol.

None of which has anything to do with my being trans -- all of that was part of who I was before I turned 4.

I can be primly dressed, no skin showing from neck to toes, sitting still, and get attention.

Nor am I in a "teen phase", and I don't have to have make up on, and often don't, but I also put forth basic effort -- 10 minutes max each day doesn't hurt me.

I never took care of my self before I transitioned -- I didn't take care of my clothes, or my body, or really give much thought to my appearance overall. Hell, I couldn't even stand to look in the mirror, and shaved maybe twice a week unless the ex got on my case.

So for me to dress in such a fashion as is "common and typical" at my grocery store would actually be wrong for me, personally. It would be a sort of personal betrayal of my self.

And you wouldn't want me to do that, would you?
Thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunky world, make, each of us, one non-flunky, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Thomas Carlyle)
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Tammy Hope

dyssonance I just want to say that in my head, I'm right there with you - if I ever get to the point that I am built right for that sort of look wild horses won't be able to keep me from it and if folks don't like a 50+ woman (by then) trying to be pretty then that sucks for them.

You personify to me what the heart of all this is - being confident in who you are and running with it. (To the extent that I still have confidence issues and need positive reinforcement, it's NOT because of my birth gender, it's because of 100 pounds of ugly fat that stand between the girl I know I am and the girl those around me can see)

If that girl is a sexy high-maintenance hotty, or if that girl is a "jeans and t-shirt" tomboy or that girl is a "reserved and proper lady" it makes no difference - as long as it's an expression of who you really are just like this cisgirl on your right and left live, without even thinking about it, a life that expresses who they really are.

Disclaimer: due to serious injury, most of my posts are made via Dragon Dictation which sometimes butchers grammar and mis-hears my words. I'm also too lazy to closely proof-read which means some of my comments will seem strange.


http://eachvoicepub.com/PaintedPonies.php
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heatherrose



Quote from: dyssonance on November 01, 2009, 04:10:09 AM...three pairs of jeans and half a dozen t shirts I own.

Oh....is that all the jeans and t-shirts that you own? :icon_no: tisk tisk



:icon_chuckel:
"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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dyssonance

Quote from: heatherrose on November 01, 2009, 01:37:20 PM


Oh....is that all the jeans and t-shirts that you own? :icon_no: tisk tisk



:icon_chuckel:

Yeah -- and, worse -- I bought the Tees on clearance at Walmart and the jeans are way too nice to really wear when working on the house stuff, lol.

No pants, though, outside the jeans.  Probably be a few years before I go there...
Thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunky world, make, each of us, one non-flunky, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Thomas Carlyle)
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heatherrose



Walmart!? I prefer to be seen shopping at the higher end stores,
Bonne Volonté and Sauvetage Arme'e and that ilk.




"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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dyssonance

Quote from: heatherrose on November 02, 2009, 05:48:18 AM


Walmart!? I prefer to be seen shopping at the higher end stores,
Bonne Volonté and Sauvetage Arme'e and that ilk.


Sigh.

Would be nice.

As it is, I make do on 400 a month. Means I get to be far more creative!
Thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunky world, make, each of us, one non-flunky, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Thomas Carlyle)
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K8

Quote from: heatherrose on November 02, 2009, 05:48:18 AM

Bonne Volonté and Sauvetage Arme'e and that ilk.

Yeah, I shop at Sal's, too, but I have to go to my daughter's town to hit Willy's. :)

- Kate
Life is a pilgrimage.
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FairyGirl

I simply prefer Macys, but I'm a total Bohemian lol I have exactly 2 pairs of jeans (got those at Macys too) but jeezus, I dress age appropriately- nice but not over the top, and a tiny bit of makeup goes a long way. You can have your own style and still blend in without looking like the mutant offspring of a clown and a Vegas showgirl. :laugh:
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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heatherrose



Quote from: FairyGirl on November 02, 2009, 09:29:04 AMthe mutant offspring of a clown and a Vegas showgirl. :laugh:

Mutant showgirl clowns are people too.


"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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FairyGirl

Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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heatherrose




Why would it matter that they don't come from this country?




"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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The None Blonde

I belive she refers to the theories of extra terrestrial life rather than posession of  US citizenship.
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