Is it wrong that some trans pictures make me uncomfortable?

[barbie]

Photographic works of Pierre Molinier made me very uncomfortable, but later I found his works could be self-portraits of me.

Pierre Molinier. Je suis Lesbien Putan

http://www.artnet.com/magazine_pre2000/reviews/morris/morris9-30-96.asp
http://www.photoconnexion.com/popup-galerie.php?lang=fr&id=142
http://www.stevenwolffinearts.com/dynamic/artist_artwork.asp?ArtistID=96
http://www.artnet.com/Artists/ArtistHomePage.aspx?artist_id=11962&page_tab=Artworks

Barbie~~

[Tammy Hope]

Hi Laura

This thread I believe was originally about you.

You think so too?

I confess whenever I see a comment like that i always tend to take it personally and assume it's a reference to me.

But I also recognize that can be a function of my own low opinion of my looks (in either gender) being projected onto others.

I always have the sort of thought process that if I see a whisper conversation I assume they are talking about me.

So yeah, the thought crossed my mind.

To be honest you posted a few pictures that were confronting.

The butchered makeup? I hated that pic but I wanted to show off the hair. My big problem is that my wife is not particularly enthused so she "puts up with" taking the photos and she doesn't have a "photographer's eye" - so what doesn't look right as a pose, or when something goes wrong (like that necklace hanging sideways or that strapless bra making a "dent") she just takes the picture anyway.
that and the fact that it's a cheap camera that doesn't always take great indoor pics.

That and having a pretty poor subject...

You have replied and shown a personality that I now see the woman inside you.

Laura, you are beutifull

Krissy

Thanks for saying so. I can be as self conscious about what I say as how i look sometimes (I know, I don't come across as lacking in confidence but it happens)

I was actually driven to leave a previous board I posted at because one girl who was VERY impressed with her own looks started trashing me as "a man playing dress up" because I was so...frankly...ugly...as a girl. (or either way I guess)

And that sort of thing really kills the ability to be confident on the street. So many here have said, and I believe, that a HUGE part of being credible out in the world is confidence and I'm not going to deny that confidence comes VERY hard for me out there. When I do go out and do something "bold" like shopping or whatever, it is usually more a function of knowing the judge me and not caring because I have nothing to lose than it is confidence in my presentation.

But I understand the deal - like I said above, my "ick" reaction is ALWAYS heavier when looking at my own pictures/mirror than ant anyone else. Even the new set that the new av is drawn from...I deleted 3/4 of them because I couldn't stand to see them.

[Alyssa M.]

Laura, your response shows a lot of grace and courtesy. I might not have been so generous. You also have the courage to put pictures of yourself out there, and that's more than I can say for myself.

I think you are making good progress, and the main thing that's hurting you is your beard shadow.

There was a woman who transitioned nearby where I live who had a lot less to work with than you have. I would see her from time to time and knew her by sight before she even began her transition, so I saw her through the whole two or three years as she became more obviously feminine. She had a deep voice and blotchy skin and wiry gray hair and she was seriously overweight, with a somewhat ursine demeanor and gait, and she must have been around 60, certainly past her prime. I was amazed she was transitioning considering the hurdles she'd face with her age and looks, and it definitely kicked my butt into thinking I'd better not wait too long to start transitioning.

Now, a few years down the road, I'm pretty sure nobody who meets her now sees her sees anything other than a woman. She's not attractive -- her age and her weight and her fashion sense are working against her -- but she could be every bit as attractive as most women her age if she tried. I'm sure that you'll soon be able to get to that point, and better, because you're starting way ahead of where she was. (You will still hate 3/4 of the photose taken of you, of course, because pretty much everybody does -- just look at the rejects published in any supermarket tabloid.)

As to whom this thread is about -- well, it could be almost anyone at some point in their transition.

[Carolyn]

I had an "ick" moment about myself the other day, so my boyfriend had to show me that, yes as off CURRENTLY, I am not as beautiful as some transwoman, however I am more beautiful than others. I have come some way, but I still have along to go. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I feel uncomfortable when I see many things so yea. Why feel bad about something if you uncomfortable?

[Tammy Hope]

I think you are making good progress, and the main thing that's hurting you is your beard shadow.

Absolutely agree. And that after I went to the MAC counter and spent way more than I can afford to buy the most recommended thing they had for beard concealment.

*sigh*

The Laser can't come soon enough.


Also the fat, but THAT I can do myself and am. Whatever else you girls might see from me over time, you'l see a lot "less" of me.

[Ellieka]

Absolutely agree. And that after I went to the MAC counter and spent way more than I can afford to buy the most recommended thing they had for beard concealment.

*sigh*

The Laser can't come soon enough.


Also the fat, but THAT I can do myself and am. Whatever else you girls might see from me over time, you'l see a lot "less" of me.

Laura, your excellent attitude is really an inspiration. I have high respect for you. I battle the beard too and I have found two things that work for me. The more expensive product is the CoverFX ($40) foundation from Sephora. I apply it in thin layers and set each one with powder. It usually takes three layers to cove my beard shadow.

Lately I have been using a much cheaper product. I was actually turned on to it by a drag performer I met. It's the Panstick by Maxfactor  ($8). It only takes about two thin layers of that as it is much thicker and I've noticed it does not sweat off as bad in the sun. Sadly they are going out of business in the US so I'm stocking up on enough to last me till I can afford laser.

[barbie]

Fortunately or not, I do not have so many hairs in my beard. Nevertheless, I pluck fine hairs in my face nearly everyday.

Choosing a correct pair of tweezers is critical. Tweezers should be very well-made and sharp to pinpoint very fine hairs. Most tweezers at $2 or 3 in Wal mart or pharmacies are not so good for this purpose. You may find >$4 tweezers that can effectively pluck your fine hairs.

In my country, there are some nice tweezers at ca. $4, which are rather expensive compared with other cheap products at ca. $1. If necessary, I purchase new ones every month.

Also, I pluck fine hairs in my eyebrows every 3 or 4 days.

Barbie~~

[Genevieve Swann]

CindyJames makes me laugh. Quote:"You're one ugly bitch" LOL. Where did that come from? Reminds me of a story I heard about Winston Churchill. The Queen told him he was an old drunk and he responded. "And you're ugly. Tommorrow I'll be sober."

[Vancha]

You know, I used to have that feeling when I saw people who obviously didn't pass.  I used to cringe a little, not because I thought they looked bad necessarily, but that I feared for their embarrassment or suffering.  I am getting a little self-conscious here because I feel like I'm starting to sound like a girl (typical  ), but in my opinion... I can just see in someone's eyes either the femininity or masculinity that they are trying to express.  All of you women have some of the most glowing, expressive eyes I've ever seen.  And while many won't see it, it's pretty clear to me.  It's a long and personal process, and what some think to be "ugly transsexuals" may just be people on one step of their journey...

Man, I sound sappy. 

[Firelight]

Wow... thanks for all of your responses, everyone. I've only had one single day off in the past 45 days... 

I have been paying attention, though, and I am very gratified at all of the replies posted here.

Meghan, I've actually been seriously considering doing a slideshow just like yours as I go through this, but haven't fully decided yet. First I want to get my family affairs sorted out; hopefully sooner than later.

One question, though: what was that surgery about 2/3 of the way through the video? I presume it was some sort of FFS, but your face already looked really feminine just before those pictures, and didn't look especially different afterward, so I was really curious. I know this is a cliche, but you've really come a very long way!

Laura, I've actually seen much, MUCH worse pictures than your own (your avatar, I mean... haven't seen any others). And actually, I didn't really notice any beard shadow, myself. I'm not going to lie and say that you're a supermodel, but you don't look terrible, either. As the saying goes: "I've seen worse."

[tekla]

It wasn't the Queen, god forbid.  It was Bessie Braddock, who by report, was quite ugly.  Churchill, by all reports, was frequently drunk.

[FairyGirl]

as an artist who has focused a lot on portraits (my current avatar for example), I have been carefully studying people's faces for a long time. Even the ones that might make you cringe at first have something beautiful about them on closer examination. It might only be the curve around the eye, or nice lips, or something else, but when you start looking at faces objectively I have never seen any that were naturally so ugly I actually wanted to tell them that when they were born the doctor should have slapped their mothers instead.

I did however think that Ron Perlman looked considerably better made up as Vincent, but then I like cats lol

[finewine]

I know that "uncomfortable" can cover a range of feelings but, to me, I'm not sure I'd define my reaction as uncomfortable.

I am struck by the visual incongruity of what looks like a bloke in a dress but that's just because it falls outside the parameters of a congruous gender presentation.  After all, that's the basis behind the "do I pass?" question...is my overall appearance within those parameters?

It's not a uniquely trans thing - if I wear a sarong, my appearance falls outside those parameters for folks here too.  Mind you, I only wear them indoors...except for one occasion with a friend of mine when we were both lounging in sarongs, ran out of wine and couldn't be bothered to change.  So we strolled down to the local off-license (liquor store) in t-shirts and sarongs.

The lady behind the counter said she gets people coming in with only pyjamas on so she wasn't phased by what she described as "two guys in skirts".

However, as an example of what does make me feel uncomfortable, I would have to cite the "cosmetic" surgery results of Michael Jackson or Jocelyn Wildenstein.  They are so far outside the "parameters" that they look freakish.

[Mister]

However, as an example of what does make me feel uncomfortable, I would have to cite the "cosmetic" surgery results of Michael Jackson or Jocelyn Wildenstein.  They are so far outside the "parameters" that they look freakish.

http://www.onlinenursingdegrees.org/medical/plastic-surgery-fail.htm

[finewine]

Ouch, those are good examples Mister (love the avatar, btw).

The first one on cooking oil is quite shocking.  As it happens, self-injecting with silicone is quite common apparently.  My gf made the same mistake of having silicone injections as a low-cost breast enhancement option.  Of course, in the Philippines, this is not sanctioned by medical personnel so the girls who do this end up getting a "backstreet" injection of non-medical grade silicone straight into breast tissue, which tends to result in nodular tissue formations.  Our consultant found a few in her breasts when we had our initial checkover.

Part of the problem is lack of access to proper information and lack of education, so the girls there just treat themselves based on word of mouth from other girls.  This is such a shame and I'd like to do something about it.  Once we've settled our own life down a bit, I'll chat with Shayna on how best to get better information spread around in that community.

[xsocialworker]

Meghan obviously made a fantastic change from a "bro" type of guy to a very attractive women by Western standards. She makes no secret that she had a lot of FFS. As far as I know, this can be costly . She also looks like her facial hair is gone. Also not cheap.  The problem is that so many transwomen will never have the money for this as well as GRS.  Certainly hormones can make a difference . I did not have any FFS, but then I was never a "bro" or a "dude", but a rather effeminate David Bowie type before my transition. But this is beside the point. Without a lot of money , many of us will never look "passable" by conventional standards. This shows the underlying "classism" in our community. The picture I post is from a "business flyer". I don't know if even a liberal employer like mine would have hired me if I didn't look somewhat ordinary or normal by Western feminine standards. Prominent transwomen like Donna Rose and Dr.Marci Bowers spent a great deal of money to get where they are. Then they are on TV shows and the general public assumes that if we don't look as good as these people, we are lazy.

[Alyssa M.]

I don't know if even a liberal employer like mine would have hired me if I didn't look somewhat ordinary or normal by Western feminine standards.
...
Then they are on TV shows and the general public assumes that if we don't look as good as these people, we are lazy.

These statements aren't limited to trans women. A big part of transphobia is just a manifestation of plain old lookism and sexism.

[Vancha]

Those pictures are a clear representation of those that went too far.  Really, why someone would take a face entirely unique to them, and absolutely fine in every way, and contort it beyond recognition is mind-boggling.  Sure, there are lots of trans people who do not pass by any standards, who are obviously trying very hard but without the natural materials to work with, but at least they haven't lost their individuality via intensive surgery.

[xsocialworker]

Generally speaking, except for the transwomen who believe in the concept of the "two-spirited person", I'd say close to 100% of them desire to pass effectively. I admit that even though I am considered an "intellectual", passing as an attractive women who looks ten years younger than my real age became an obsession that transcended any academic goals.

[Lachlann]

but at least they haven't lost their individuality via intensive surgery.

The truth is, individuality comes down to your actions, and even then is it rarely ever 'unique' enough to stand out. We are individuals with individual choices and personalities. You can have an individual appearance, but changing that doesn't take away individuality as a whole.