Cis is hostile terminology? Really?

[Shana A]

Cis is hostile terminology? Really?

Written by Lisa Harney
June 29, 2009 at 1:44 am

http://questioningtransphobia.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/cis-is-hostile-terminology-really/

A regular (a cis gay man) at Pam's House Blend expresses that he feels "cis" is offensive and demeaning, and that trans people who use it are basically bad people (plus we're bad people if we're unhappy with John Aravosis' transphobic remarks):

    For the record, I find cis- to be offensive. In general, I thought our community (I mean the whole LGBT rainbow here) uses terms that are acceptable to those being described.

snip

Cis is a neutral term applied to people who aren't trans. It's intended to decenter the notion that not being trans is the natural, default state for human beings and that being trans is a deviation, and that trans people are other. Most terminology that cis people use to define themselves as cis generally reifies cissexism and cissupremacy.

[tekla]

To the degree that a term is hostile or neutral depends on usage, not definition.  But hey, thanks for playing our game.

[Flan]

the cissies don't like the fact that a label was invented for them 

[Miniar]

Everything is hostile if you say it right.
Just try with that sentence, read it out loud as a "matter of fact", then read it as "sarcastic insult" then read it as a "joke".

Sometimes people take things in ways they are not meant and when it comes to the internet, sometimes people read "tones of voice" other than were intended when the words were written.

[finewine]

My carefully considered and tactfully worded opinion is ... "what a load of old bollocks".

I tend to align with the previously expressed view that it's more about usage than definition, as it's the pejorative *usage* of a term that makes it offensive.

Anyway, a large number of folks out there apparently don't know what the term means anyway.  I've lost count of how many times someone replies with "cis-what?  What does that mean?"

I did chuckle at Flan's "cissies".  I hadn't thought of myself that way lol...

[Mister]

i suppose the problem with 'cis' is the presumption that someone else is comfortable with their assigned gender. 

[tekla]

Everything is hostile if you say it right.

Pretty much this.  Thank god. 

I had a guy one day who asked if I could say something without using a four/eleven letter word in every sentence.  So I said: "Mama and I shan't be going to the shore whilst Papa still has the shakes from the syphilis." He told me to go back to swearing.

PS
I've lost count of how many times someone replies with "cis-what?

If you are using words that other people don't understand, you are not communicating to them. 

[finewine]

I've lost count of how many times someone replies with "cis-what?

If you are using words that other people don't understand, you are not communicating to them.

Yup.  It's not a term I was familiar with either until I came here.  I'd never heard it used previously and pretty much every one of the "say what?" responses was from other folks in here too.  I won't discard the term entirely but will certainly be very selective about my future use of the term.

[Shana A]

i suppose the problem with 'cis' is the presumption that someone else is comfortable with their assigned gender.

agreed!

Most language has quite a lot of assumptions attached. I personally don't like using the word straight, to me it implies that there is something "right" about it and thus something "wrong" with other sexualities...

Z

[tekla]

You know what the difference between genius and idiot is?  It's not about what you know.  It's about how you can convey it to other people. 

If I'm trying to explain something to you, or convince you of something, and I'm tossing around words that you've never heard in an attempt to a) make you think I'm a lot smarter than I am, or than you are or, b) confuse the issues by slathering on words that have no real meaning in an attempt to cover up the notion that I really can't even begin to explain to a total moron, much less you (somewhat smarter), what I mean.

[and I'm all about seeing it as the underlined part myself, cause, it usually is true]

If you do either of those things, your not smart, your not convincing anyone, your not enlightening anyone, your even not succeeding at beginning to explain it to anyone... then, you are an idiot.

I don't care how many degrees you have,
or where you went to school,
if you can't explain it,
then you be the fool.

And really, its a damn ugly word.  Yeesh, it was invented (coined) by someone who thinks the English Language is something to be rendered by meathooks and hammers.  I could have come up with a much prettier word - meaning more or less the same thing - and considering how many trans persons really, really, want nothing more than to be considered 'cis' could not we have honored them a bit more and come up with something nicer. 

Rule one is in convincing people of something, anything, is not to use words they don't get, or will not like.  There are very real language reasons why one side is "Pro Life" and the other is not "Pro Death" but "Pro Choice" while the other side avoids being "Anti-Choice."

[Lisbeth]

cis- (Prefix) From the Latin preposition cis ("on this side of").

1. On this side of.

2. (chemistry) Forming names of chemical compounds in which two atoms or groups are situated on the same side of some plane of symmetry passing through the compound.

Derived usages:
* In chemistry, cis- refers to cis-trans isomerism
* In molecular biology, cis- refers to cis-acting
* In gender studies, cis- refers to cisgender

Antonyms: trans- ultra-

[NicholeW.]

Autumn's been heading in this general direction for months, hell, perhaps years.

It's always about her, as someone at Lisa's site pointed out there were some rather scary ways Autumn wrote about the Zapata trial, putting herself as "at risk" as if Andrade had home-boys out to find and slay Autumn.

The radio show recently where the "reporter" becomes the celeb out to speak for "trans-people everywhere." As if.

Clearly Autumn's gone way past any reasonable usefulness to anyone other than herself. Meet the new John Aravosis.

[Lisbeth]

i suppose the problem with 'cis' is the presumption that someone else is comfortable with their assigned gender.

I suppose the problem with cis- is that it perpetuates a cis-trans- binary. Why is there not also the word mediogender for androgyns?

[Alyssa M.]

It's things like this that are the reason "PC" is a disparaging term. Pretty much any terminology will be offensive to somebody. I don't mean that to defend being offensive, but just to acknowledge that language is thorny. There's a balance between being sensitive to other people and just speaking clearly.

So some guy doesn't like "cis." Well, I don't particularly like "trans" or any word that uses it. But you have to suck it up and choose a word at some point.

[tekla]

Yeah, and that Latin crap.  SO what.  Are not we way past that?  Does not American English have a rich vocabulary of words not fricking Latin?  Sure.  It's American English, the most frickin flexible (see, I bet you knew just what world to read into 'frickign' didn't you, of course - even when I misspell it - American English, its just that flexible) language ever frickin invented?  Of course it is.  Why not pull a word from say any of the following, which could be a list of all languages, as I don't think a word for 'this side' as opposed to, well, say, 'the other side' is all that frickin rare.

So perhaps a Chinese word, we use several on the west coast.  Or a Thai word, they might have a swell one, bonus points for it being hard to spell so bloggers look even dumber when they write it. Or, go American.  Hell, it's the frickign Forth of July, so why not choose an Ojibwa, or Kowa, or Apache, or Iroquois world. 

I'm really, really sure, if nothing else, the Sioux had a words for "us" and 'them'.  Damn sure they sounded better than Latin words. 

[Alyssa M.]

I suppose the problem with cis- is that it perpetuates a cis-trans- binary.

I don't see the problem. We use "bright" and "dark" to describe the density of visible spectrum photons in a room without any concern that the words perpetuate the "bright-dark binary."

[tekla]

Nice try Alyssa, but I'm not buying that for a NYC second coming from you.  You know a word like "albedo" [ed. note: its The spectrum of reflected light from a planet - Don't worry, I had to look it up too, the point is, I bet Alyssa did not] that measures the degree of light.  Like there is a measurement for darkness, or for ski slopes, or for degree of difficulty on an assent.  Photography has all sorts of wonderful measures for distinguishing between light and darkness too.  Nothing is really one or the other, but rather, simply shades in between.

So to does art, where in fact everything is a play between shadows and light, symbols and truth, light and darkness - and none really exist - it's all in the in between. 

Sure, at some point, way on down the road there is a binary, but before that point, its all probability baby.

[Lisbeth]

Yeah, and that Latin crap.  SO what.  Are not we way past that?  Does not American English have a rich vocabulary of words not fricking Latin?  Sure.  It's American English, the most frickin flexible (see, I bet you knew just what world to read into 'frickign' didn't you, of course, American English, its just that flexible) language ever frickin invented? 

Sure. There are lots of words in English that don't derive from Latin. Most of them are German, French, or Greek. English is so frickin flexible because it agglomerates words from every language it comes in contact with. By the way, that 'frickin' word is borrowed from Dutch. Maybe you want we should just go back to speaking Anglo-saxon? Dat wer no jenne kann.

I'm really, really sure, if nothing else, the Sioux had a words for "us" and 'them'.  Damn sure they sounded better than Latin words.

I don't think 'lakotahgender' trips off the tongue very well.

[tekla]

more fun to type than cisgender is.  And so, find a word, find a good word, a right word but a pretty word, and go from there. 

[Lisbeth]

I'm really, really sure, if nothing else, the Sioux had a words for "us" and 'them'. 

Oh, and 'Sioux' is a hostile word when used in reference to the Lakotah people. They don't like being called snakes.