Overly Defensive TGs

[Ashton28]

So, my significant other and I have been going through quite a lot lately. She's been very understanding, and quite supportive. Looking up TG groups and the like in her area, going through LJ to find some support and to read up on the entire process. Unfortunately, in the wake of her hoping to learn more, and hoping to reach out and try to be more supportive of my journey.. she has found herself being attacked by very overly defensive TG's. Now, there are a lot that have been able to help her, but the others that have lashed out for her misuse of pronouns, and inflammatory statements have actually pissed me off. I mean this is a learning time for both of us. I myself have still been looking into everything possible to educate myself. She is just trying to touch base and not feel left in the dark about the entire process. I can understand if she and I had been together for years, and she knew all the ins and outs that maybe she could be corrected.. but really? Getting all worked up about talking about Transgenders in general without labeling transmen and transwomen in there own terms? I dunno.. to me its a bit ridiculous. Transgenders in a whole are a community of which should support eachother, significant others as well. This is a difficult change for many partners to deal with, and for those that are supportive and want to learn, or are confused, scared and angry and just need to speak their mind.. we should all be understanding of what we are all going through. I am a transgender. Female to male. My significant other is a woman. Cisgender if she must be labeled. But to me, labels are overrated. We are all human. Gender is what we portray as humans. Live, and let live. Come on people.. lets support and educate one another without the lashing out at those who seek knowledge.

Landon.

[NicholeW.]

Nice sentiments and ones that I find sensible.

There's an over-abundance of what amount to niggles that get handed to significant others and even to people who are just discovering their place in the world and that they are transsexual, transgender, etc. It's as if the proper vocabulary should be used (and by proper I mean the one that the person who's laying into the newbie is using as there doesn't seem to be a proper lexicon available universally) is somehow ingrained prior to beginning the discovery process.

Then there are those who appear to simply wish to correct someone else.

I doubt that there is anything that can be done except raise awareness in groups on the webz about how outright rude and disturbing that behavior is; and then hope that people can take the lesson and start trying to actually be supportive and gently educative rather than persistently and flagrantly rude.

But, as in most things you'd have to make the presumption that some will get the clue quickly, others will get it in time and that still others will never get it at all. That seems to be the general human way.

Nichole

[sofiadragon1979]

I see the same kind of things when it comes to race as well, like w/ the blcak persons they can use the N*^^$R word as much as they want, I mean come on they use it in Rap all of the time but if a white person or any person of any other race uses it they will be called racist,  I don't get it, but me personally all people need to chill out.

[tekla]

Yeah, well I can use all sort of obscene language to my co-workers, but other people better not.  It's a matter of ownership.  But at least we all know what those words and phrases are.  In this matter its much less clear.

[Ashton28]

Good points indeed, and should be taken into consideration by all. I just find it hypocritical of anyone looking for the same rights, respect and dignity as everyone else.. to bash people who are of the same kind, or are trying to be open minded. Sadly, not everyone is. And for those of us who are, it gets quite frustrating at times when we're trying to be understanding and educated in every aspect of what a person is going through. When the windows and doors are all opened, the flow of communication should be abundant, clear, and bias free. Not everyone is the same, but not everyone wants to be. We should see this as a chance to build a solid network, a community of those who "are" that can live, work and love cohesively with those who "aren't" but wish to learn. But yes, thank you, that is true.

[Nero]

hi Landon.
Are you referring to something from here?

[Genevieve Swann]

It is hard to voice an opinion without knowing exactly how the persons were offensive. Maybe it is a case of "Do unto others before they do unto you." Some people are overly defensive and lash out for no reason. I've been accused of racism and didn't even say or do a damn thing. One guy got upset and told me I was possibly going to use the N word. I wouldn't let others insecurites bother you too much.

[Ashton28]

No, Nero it's nothing from here. It's from a LJ my girlfriend has been looking on.
All she was saying was, she's dating a transgender, FtM and was hoping to learn about things as she's a little scared and not sure what to do or where to start. She had numerous responces saying she was in the wrong for saying it like that, and that she should say I'm a Transwoman, and that she should call herself a cisgender woman. Which I find a bit unnecessary. If I wanted to be labeled a transwoman, I would. If I wanted to call her a cisgender, I would. But she's learning, we're educating one another, we're growing as a couple in hopes we can build a stronger relationship even while this transition is going on.

[Genevieve Swann]

A new word: Transphobia-phobia

[Ashton28]

That would about sum it up right there.

[Syne]

Why LJ instead of here? Why the 'Net to start? Therapist or local support groups?

That said, there is never a good excuse for bad manners and I am sorry to hear that such a thing happened but not surprised.

[Imadique]

No, Nero it's nothing from here. It's from a LJ my girlfriend has been looking on.
All she was saying was, she's dating a transgender, FtM and was hoping to learn about things as she's a little scared and not sure what to do or where to start. She had numerous responces saying she was in the wrong for saying it like that, and that she should say I'm a Transwoman, and that she should call herself a cisgender woman. Which I find a bit unnecessary. If I wanted to be labeled a transwoman, I would. If I wanted to call her a cisgender, I would. But she's learning, we're educating one another, we're growing as a couple in hopes we can build a stronger relationship even while this transition is going on.

I always thought Transwoman was a label for MTF's anyway...guess I have to hand in my Trans membership now   

[Mister]

If she's saying things like, "My partner is FTM.  She is just starting to transition." then it's clearly going to piss everyone off.  Why? Because she's saying that FTMs are female.  If she can't get the absolute basics down while in a group for TS/TG people, she deserves whatever comments follow. 
Post Merge: July 15, 2009, 08:26:44 PM

I always thought Transwoman was a label for MTF's anyway...guess I have to hand in my Trans membership now   

Transwoman = MTF, not FTM.  Seems OP's SO isn't the only one who can't figure out the basics.

[sofiadragon1979]

I am an MTF & transwoman is the reference to me & others like me a transman is what an FTM is not to be stepping on peoples toes but that is how it is from what I have been learning from some friends of both the FTM & MTF crowds that are post op for over 10 years each.

[phantom_heart]

If she's saying things like, "My partner is FTM.  She is just starting to transition." then it's clearly going to piss everyone off.  Why? Because she's saying that FTMs are female.  If she can't get the absolute basics down while in a group for TS/TG people, she deserves whatever comments follow. 
Post Merge: July 15, 2009, 08:26:44 PM
Transwoman = MTF, not FTM.  Seems OP's SO isn't the only one who can't figure out the basics.

WOW instead of worrying about words and what to call who, people should be supporting her. As an SO i know that what we need is support and understanding. What you call Basics are not the same for those who are trans and those who support. I came knowing NOTHING. I looked all over this board and had to figure out on my own what MTF or FTM stood for. Landon you know i love ya. She can talk to me anytime i can support her and guid her through this minefield. Because this isnt easy.

This isnt rainbows and sunshine. I'm dealing with a lot and someone who has the currage to stand beside anyone who is going through this deserves our patients and our understanding. So Mister i really think that what you said is wrong. Its just my opinion however. I know what she's going through and the last thing she is thinking about when she trys to reach out for help is how to label Landon.

[Chaos_Dagger]

  I agree whole hardily with what my SO said.  Mister, your comment was not only wrong but rather ignorant!  Most people who are not trans, do not understand how we feel, or rather anything about us until they talk to us and learn.  In the most basic sense, society teaches us how to think and react to things we see.  "If it has tits and a crotch, it's female."  is generally the as you say "basic" understanding of things.

  Should someone label their SO as "FTM" and still refer to that person as "she"  is only natural for someone who is just starting this transition (and everyone knows the SO has to transition as well, albeit in a different way.)  Since I've met Landon I've known him as his born gender up until  he introduced my SO and I to these boards.  Since then I have referred to him properly, as I have learned and wish others to refer to me as.  The point however, is simply this: How can we expect others to support us, when we do not support them?

  SO's need support just was we all do, sometimes even more than we do!  Getting worked up over the misuse of an unfamiliar term, or even asking something that may seem ignorant to seasoned members of the TG community, is just a prejudice as many things that can and have been said about us by others.  Landon's SO may be ignorant about what exactly our community is about, in the sense that she does not have any previous knowledge about us other than what society says (which is generally very little.)  However, harsh words and rejections such as your own, are NOT the way to help or endear anyone to even want to gain knowledge in this area.  It would be the same as an African American child meeting a white person for the very first time and asking "Why are you so pale?" only to get the reply, "because your a stupid <insert N-word here>".

  I guess what I'm trying to say is, whoever is making comments as such to any SO, needs a swift kick in the ass.  Suck up your damned "pride" and help people to understand us more!  That is unless you want us to be continually labeled as various unsavory words and thoughts, which these courses of action will only reinforce.  Understanding and tolerance is a two-way street, we cannot demand people respect and tolerate us, without first respecting and tolerating others.

[Lachlann]

Stay away from LJ communities. I made a topic about it not too long ago and it's pretty much confirmed it to me that they're a much more hostile section of the community.

[sofiadragon1979]

I have never heard of LJ comunities before.

[Mister]

*my* comment was ignorant?  By saying that a group full of transpeople will probably take offense to being referred to as their assigned sex?  No, I think the person who referred to transpeople that way is ignorant.

[petzjazz]

To the OP: If your girl wants kindness and gentle support, the Internet is an absolutely horrible place to look for it. Why? The Internet is a world where anyone can be anyone he or she wants to be - and oftentimes, the person that he or she wants to be is the unfiltered and unabashedly cruel side of himself or herself that he or she is not permitted to be in the real world by laws of common decency. People who would never so much as sneer at you in real life are often vicious and untolerating on the Web, simply because the anonymity of the Web protects them from the ramifications of their words. Transgender and transsexual web communities can be just as loaded with needless cruelty and intolerance as white supremacist web communities -on the Internet, everyone is equal. Everyone has carte blanche to what they will call "bluntness", but what is usually a total lack of gentleness and understanding.

There's no Internet source she or you can go to that won't have a degree of unnecessary intolerance. It's on the FTM LJs, and it's definitely here. Hopefully, wherever she or you go, there will also be kind, understanding people who can sympathize - and they are also on the LJs and here. But if you would like a higher chance that EVERYONE attending a support area will follow the laws of common decency and respect (at least outwardly), your best chance might be at a real-life, in-person TG/TS/SOFFA support group. If you're anywhere near a large city, you can probably find one.