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Some questions about feelings and sex prior to coming out/pre transition...

Started by Aussie Jay, July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PM

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Aussie Jay

Hi All
I apologise if this is seen as inappropriate or in the wrong place, I sincerely didn't know where else to ask... I have been doing some self reflection/soul searching and have come across a few feelings that I was wondering were specific to me or felt also by the wider FTM community.
Well since I don't really know where to start, I was thinking about lots of things but sex drive and activity were thoughts that kept coming back. In regards to myself, I have never really had a sex drive and until I was about 25 I never touched myself sexually, I just couldn't bring myself to. Even with a partner (female) if I was asked to touch myself I couldn't do it, and also anytime I was with a partner it was always very hard for me to climax.
I never understood why it was so different for the person I was with and yet to me always felt so strange. Like at times good obviously but essentially strange. Another revelation was that I have never liked my "breasts" being touched. Just all these things that I had never really thought of, like when I am with a partner, or even alone in order to reach the top I need to imagine heterosexual encounters, where I was always the man. Should that have been my first clue??!!!??
When I first came out as a lesbian – I always felt like it never really "fit" properly, like that wasn't supposed to be me. And now here I am reading all your stories and comments I realised there is another option. So many things I look at now and think I should have known sooner. Even just things as simple as haircuts I have had throughout my life. The clothes I always felt my mother should have dressed me in. The activities my parents let me do and the ones I felt I should be doing. Even as a child just thinking I should be going with all my mates into the boys toilets...
So many thoughts I have been having... Does anyone else feel as daft as me for not realising sooner?? And then I had the conversation with my psych whom I was seeing for depression and anxiety – I asked if maybe at least some of the problems I have had over the years could be a result of the gender identity issues I have felt and... ding ding ding – we have a winner!! He said absolutely, your own identity is the cornerstone of who we are, if you have doubts and issues with who you are then yeah my anxiety and depression could be all wrapped up in that too. Not to mention my adjustment disorder and the problems I had at school etc...
Sorry this is long I didn't want it to be. But I was just wondering if anyone else had similar thoughts? Similar experiences? Anything... it's just nice to be validated I must say.
Cheers guys, I look forward to any responses I get.
Jay

A smooth sea never made for a skilled sailor.
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Nero

I did have the issue in my teens where I wouldn't directly touch myself. Nothing could involve my actual hand. Things just felt wrong. I forced myself to get over it. I did have to break through some mental barrier to be able to enjoy my body. I think that's pretty normal. Especially if there's any truth to the 'body map' thing.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Aussie Jay

So is it just because we are different and not overly comfortable with who we are or how we arre perceived? I have had other friends (female) who love doing stuff by themselves! I was also wondering has anyone had huge issues with things during sexual activites entering the vagina? I would assume yes but assumption is the mother of all f%$# ups. I personally cannot tolerate ever things at the entrance and I always wondering why I was so different from all my partners and my lesbian friends... Anyone? or am I on my own here...

A smooth sea never made for a skilled sailor.
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Nero

QuoteSo is it just because we are different and not overly comfortable with who we are or how we arre perceived?

I don't know. I attribute my initial reticence to biology.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Aussie Jay

So your dysphoria with sex as a teen is possibly a result of birth gender. Makes sense to me too, as if I had been born in the right body we probably wouldnt be having this chat. Is that accurate? Therefore since we will never be biomale will we ever be content in that department? I still think about my body, sex and such and honestly dont know if I will ever be comfortable... I guess it also comes down to having to put yourself out there in front of another human being. Making yourself vulnerable.
I am very reluctant to be visible, to allow myself to truly be seen due to stuff I have dealt with all my life. I have been yelled at in female toilets for being in the wrong ones. I have had people try and physically remove me coz they think I am in the wrong one. I have had friends of friends and my own family members ask me if I am male or female... People who are supposed to know me. Tell me does it get easier?

A smooth sea never made for a skilled sailor.
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Nero

QuoteTherefore since we will never be biomale will we ever be content in that department?

Speaking for myself, yes. I've come to enjoy my body. Some guys come to be content through genital surgery. But, contentment is possible.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Aussie Jay

Thanks Nero, at least I can look forward to that.
Cheers.
I would love to hear what anyone else thinks... about my original post or the conversation Nero and myself were having.
I feel like I am waiting for something but I dont know what. I am just trying to arm myself with all the knowledge I can.
Thanks again Nero.
Jay

A smooth sea never made for a skilled sailor.
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perfectisolation

Jaydle, I have the exact same problems. I can't touch myself, and when I've tried, it was just wrong. I never touch that junk on my chest either when I'm washing in the shower. I am pretty much asexual (well not really I am still attracted to people but I can't do anything cause of my body) because of my gender dysphoria. I will watch stuff but that's it. It makes me so frustrated and envious... I have become such an awkward, shy, anxious, depressed, loner, not fun to be around, person and I believe all that is tied into me being TG with extreme gender/sex dysphoria.

Someone on the forums here once said that realizing you're really TS is like the Germans realizing what the Nazi's did after WWII. It was a great analogy.
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Luc

Despite all but believing I was a boy until that horrible day I got my first period, and being about as masculine as a "girl" could be for the vast majority of my life, I never even had a clue I might be ftm until I was 18. Of course, I didn't even know what an ftm WAS until then (yes, I was sheltered). However, regardless of realizing I was ftm at 18, I waited another five years to even look into transition, and a year past that to start. I tried identifying as lesbian for a year or two, but it didn't work for me at all. But you can count me among those clueless folks who took awhile to clue into the trans bit.

As per masturbation, I NEVER did it prior to transition. Part of it was my upbringing, part was my repulsion at my particular genitalia. Once on T, however, it was impossible to avoid. I think, had I not learned to overcome my negative feelings concerning masturbation, I would've ended up in an asylum from the excess sexual frustration. Inevitably, what I realized was that I would never have the penis I wanted, so I might as well learn how to be happy with what I have. It worked. Now the only genital "dysphoria" I have concerns thoughts of having sex with other people.

SD
"If you want to criticize my methods, fine. But you can keep your snide remarks to yourself, and while you're at it, stop criticizing my methods!"

Check out my blog at http://hormonaldivide.blogspot.com
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Aussie Jay

Sebastien
I too had a rather sheltered upbringingand I hadnt really figured that in. As a kid you really didnt mention the nether regions and god forbid you had a conversation about them. I think I even learnt about the birds and the bees from a book and not a conversation so that probably had a bit to do with my views on masturbation. I just always felt very strange from the rest of my girl friends who really seemed to enjoy it and was wondering if it were just me or if it were othere FTMs too.
I even had a problem when getting changed for gym class - I just couldnt change in front of the other girls. For years I put that down to being a lesbian and that I didnt feel comfortable because the other girls might think i was looking at them... Now I rethink those moments and realise - I was in the wrong change room!! Thats why I was uncomfortable.
I just keep thinking - so many clues... So naive. I feel like my sub consconsious mind is going "well duh, idiot. if you hadve listened to me years ago..." Anyone else think hindsight is a beautiful thing??
Cheers Jay

A smooth sea never made for a skilled sailor.
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Radar

Quote from: jaydle83 on July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PM
I never understood why it was so different for the person I was with and yet to me always felt so strange. Like at times good obviously but essentially strange. Another revelation was that I have never liked my "breasts" being touched. Just all these things that I had never really thought of, like when I am with a partner, or even alone in order to reach the top I need to imagine heterosexual encounters, where I was always the man.
Yep.

Quote from: jaydle83 on July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PM
When I first came out as a lesbian – I always felt like it never really "fit" properly, like that wasn't supposed to be me.
I've never identified as a lesbian either... that just wasn't what I was. But, I also never saw myself as gay for liking women.

Quote from: jaydle83 on July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PM
So many thoughts I have been having... Does anyone else feel as daft as me for not realising sooner??
I knew it all along, but I tried to subdue it. I was born in a female body so I felt I was trapped and could do nothing about it. Then I realised I could do something about it to show the world- and myself- the real me. I do wish I had learned of my options sooner.

Quote from: jaydle83 on July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PMAnd then I had the conversation with my psych whom I was seeing for depression and anxiety – I asked if maybe at least some of the problems I have had over the years could be a result of the gender identity issues I have felt and... ding ding ding – we have a winner!!
Here too.

Post Merge: July 16, 2009, 08:18:00 AM

Quote from: jaydle83 on July 16, 2009, 02:15:34 AM
I even had a problem when getting changed for gym class - I just couldnt change in front of the other girls.
Yep. I felt as uncomfortable as a guy would be changing around women. It was also hard and embarrassing for me if a woman saw me nude. ^-^
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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Teknoir

Ah, the good ol' hindsight inspired facepalm! I can relate to that :laugh:

I've always known the sort of man I wanted to grow in to since I was a child, but at the same time (perhaps due to a liberal upbringing and early sex education) I was always aware that I was not born into the body that would allow for it to happen.

Knowing what genes are in the 1st grade sort of kills off any childhood delusions about "really being a boy". Sometimes I slightly envy those of you who got sex ed later on. I missed out on ever thinking I was just the same as the other boys and got to feel like an outcast early.

I got fed up with it all and seriously considered a "sex change" at 15, but decided against it for years because I thought I was too short to ever pass. I used my male name and was myself online to try to have an outlet... but now 10 years later I find myself having to transition regardless in order to function! I'm keeping the name though - I still like it as much now as I did back then :)

In wonderful high-def-hindsight, it's damn obvious I'd be happier, more productive, and able to reach my potential after I transtioned. However, at this age I am appreciating the journey and the unusual experiances more than I would if I had done it younger.

Regarding sex, I'm just not that into it, and I sure as hell don't want another relationship (once was enough... I'm just not cut out for it). Contact to the mentioned areas is not a sensation I enjoy, even before I came out to myself. That doesn't mean I don't have feelings for someone out there I find very attractive that are in no way mutual... just means I don't actually have a desire to do anything with them that would get you arrested if you did it in public  :laugh:.

When it came to getting changed for gym class I always hid in a stall. Not because of any attraction to any of my classmates, but because of the shame of what I was hiding under my uniform.
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Mister

I find it very, very, very hard to believe that you can't find some way of getting off pre transition.  Hump a pillow, buy a vibrator, get a strap on and jack it off, get a massaging shower head, sit on the washer during the spin cycle, get your bf/gf/pal on the phone to talk dirty about your massive cock, chat it up online w/ someone and live our your fantasy male identity...
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GamerJames

Quote from: Mister on July 16, 2009, 10:29:15 AM
I find it very, very, very hard to believe that you can't find some way of getting off pre transition.  Hump a pillow, buy a vibrator, get a strap on and jack it off, get a massaging shower head, sit on the washer during the spin cycle, get your bf/gf/pal on the phone to talk dirty about your massive cock, chat it up online w/ someone and live our your fantasy male identity...

I do agree that there are lots of ways to get off that don't require touching the parts you're uncomfortable with, but as someone who was sexually abused growing up, I also understand that sometimes it's not about the sensation, it's about the conflict in your mind. Our brain is our biggest, most powerful, and ultimately most *important* sexual organ. If it is disfunctional, misfiring, or just stuck behind a wall (for whatever reason), then getting off becomes less about the physical reaction, and more about arousal, feeling sexy in your skin, etc.

I have struggled in the past with having consensual sex feel "predatory" or illiciting flashbacks, and so I understand the feeling of "I'm turned on, but even *thinking* of doing anything about it just creeps me right out and puts me off the mood".  But that being said, I've worked really hard to come to a place that I'm comfortable being sexual and have for the most part learned how to deal with those flashes of "eww" that come up and try to derail things.

I think the important thing is to do what you're comfortable with, and don't do what you're not comfortable with, but still leave room to at least consider trying to slowly, gently, push your envelope a little further and learn how to respond to that "wall" that pops up when you push farther than your comfort level. If you believe that you'll never be able to get past the disphoria, and just let it have control of your body (even if it has the wrong parts, as a whole it is still your body, and you have a right to feel at home in it), then that's where you'll stay. Trying to push the boundaries is not easy, but ask yourself if it's worth it to you to at least try. For some people it's not worth it, and that's completely valid too (I'm not saying that anyone "has to" or even "should" push the boundaries, just suggesting it as a possible action for those who *are* interested in breaking down those walls).

No matter what you do or don't do, the only value of "right" or "wrong" is: what's right for YOU. :)
♫ Oh give me a home, where the trans people roam, and the queers and the androgynes play... ♫

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Aussie Jay

QuoteI find it very, very, very hard to believe that you can't find some way of getting off pre transition.  Hump a pillow, buy a vibrator, get a strap on and jack it off, get a massaging shower head, sit on the washer during the spin cycle, get your bf/gf/pal on the phone to talk dirty about your massive cock, chat it up online w/ someone and live our your fantasy male identity...
Im sorry if I was misunderstood, I didnt mean I probably couldnt get off, it was as Braedon said a head thing. It has never been about the physical stuff - well not entirely... I guess I just always felt inadequate, like I was doing the wrong thing when with a partner. I am extremely self conscious. I guess now looking at the feeling of doing the wrong thing comes from having the wrong parts... There's that goddam hindsight slappin' again.
QuoteYep. I felt as uncomfortable as a guy would be changing around women. It was also hard and embarrassing for me if a woman saw me nude.
I have avoided female anythings - doctors, dentists, bosses, everything - I dont know I guess I am afraid of them. The docs especially - coz of the whole nude thing. I have never liked what I see in a mirror, and not just because I am slightly pudgy. I avoided mirrors for years too.
QuoteWhen it came to getting changed for gym class I always hid in a stall.
Me too brother.
I guess its just a matter of finding me now. And what makes me comfortable. (Any suggestions!!!!) Its amazing for years I thought that this - all these feelings - were just me and that I was like the strangest person on the planet. It is very uplifting to know I am not now nor was I ever alone by the sounds of it.
Cheers guys, this place is such a lifesaver.
Jay

A smooth sea never made for a skilled sailor.
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Teknoir

QuoteI find it very, very, very hard to believe that you can't find some way of getting off pre transition.

Well, I can only speak for myself on this matter...

If it were a case of "feel the need but can't seal the deal" I'd have it sorted out long ago. It's not about the equipment anymore - the suggested "different ways of looking at things" from the last time this subject came up were very helpful. It's a matter of unrepressing and integrating that aspect of my identity. Once that's sorted I should end up pretty normal (it's the last unresolved issue I can identify, anyway).

To even get to the point of finding someone attractive in that way is an improvement from "ARGH IT'S ALL BROKEN! RUN SCREAMING!"  :laugh:
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GamerJames

♫ Oh give me a home, where the trans people roam, and the queers and the androgynes play... ♫

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milliontoone

QuoteSo many thoughts I have been having... Does anyone else feel as daft as me for not realising sooner??
I knew it all along, but I tried to subdue it. I was born in a female body so I felt I was trapped and could do nothing about it. Then I realised I could do something about it to show the world- and myself- the real me. I do wish I had learned of my options sooner.

Yep this is exactly true for me too.  In fact a lot of what people have been saying in this thread has really resonated with me.  I struggled with depression and self loathing for years because I never felt I had an identity, I hated myself because I wasn't the person who I truly am and it all makes so much sense now.  I am 100% happier and self assured now since I have come out, I won't pretend it is easy but what ever is that is worth having in the end.  Since I have been on T I have just felt right somehow I know it is just what my body needs, has always craved. 
I do feel angry sometimes that I had the wrong hormonal balance in my body for so many years when I could have felt like this but you have to process your anger and talking to people whether it's a therapist, a supportive partner or family member or you guys who all understand what I am going through really helps.
There are still days when I feel I have to prove my masculinity whereas I would have the luxury of being able to take it for granted if I were born biologically male or times when I crave validation as a male from a society who because I do not pass 100% yet throws everything at me to tell me I am not and this is even within my own family! But it doesn't matter what anyone thinks because eventually in the end they will come to see what is inevitable that I am a man just like any other man just one that happened to be born with typically female genitalia.  Your nature is what makes you what you are, your innate sense of self, it is how you identify that matters.  And passing helps a lot with societies perception of you yes but what is important is what you know you are, how you feel inside.  And no one can ever take that from you.
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Aussie Jay

Quotewhat is important is what you know you are, how you feel inside.  And no one can ever take that from you.
So true milliontoone. I believe this, I just wish I could live it! I would like to think I know who I am but the truth is that I dont... I have an idea. I guess I am just having a difficult time coming out to myself... and all these thoughts just keep swirling around my head. One minute I will be adament - I know I am FTM, and then in the next hour I have the thought that Im being rediculous - its not possible, your just very masculine/butch. Argh, Im so confused!
All you guys seem so comfortable and accepting (now, I dont say it has/hasnt always been that way for you all) - how did you come to terms with accepting yourself?? Was it a case of I accept that I am who I am and I have to transition? Was it a case of go forward as the real me or drown as I am now? Im not looking for answers. I just keep thinking every now and again - maybe I can just go on as I am... I dont need to change my appearance etc. And then again the next minute I cant stand how I look and how I am perceived! Oh jeeze - Im screwed arent I!! So messed up.
You are all so corageous, I am so scared Im going to lose. Whether it be friends, family, co workers etc. I know everyone says if you lose friends over who you are they are not worth having, but your family... I already lost out when I came out as lesbian and worked hard to claim them back. But now... Im scared.
Im still amazed I am not alone in my feelings. So many times I just thought I was such a strange specimen... Such a weird girl, or not even a girl! (Duh, again) So many times I thought that someone would realise that a big mistake had been made and I would grow into a boy. And for years I have been hating my chest and saying I wanted a hysto as "Im never gonna use it!" So many clues now... But I guess everyone has these little things and go, Duh.
I wish they taught you this kinda crap in sex ed... At least people might be more accepting if it were more known and not such a taboo. And then people who felt that way would be able to explore their options before needing a lot a therapy - like myself...
Jay
(as a side note I meant to say nice hair cut Braedon! Thats how I started and wait it will get shorter and shorter!!)

A smooth sea never made for a skilled sailor.
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Jeatyn

hindsight inspired facepalm ;D that made me chuckle

I was just sorta browsing the internet and reading about hormones for one reason or another and I suddenly got a feeling of "holy crap, I'm a transsexual, DUH"

Actually I just remembered why I was reading about it...I was trolling a friend of mine in to believing I was a MTF so I was educating myself in order to be a better troll...I had no idea of the options until then, the feeling of wanting to be a boy was just a fleeting wish and invaded my dreams. Never thought it'd be a reality in a million years.

That was an odd chain of events now I think about it.
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