Trans Binary vs. Non-Binary

[ericc]

I'm just curious, I noticed that there are a lot of MTF and FTM in the Transgender communites but I'm just curious, is one of the reasons why people get surgery is to pass through the Gender Binary System or is it more of their personal choice to get the surgery?

I know that this is kind of a sensitive subject and I do appoligize. I'm but curious.

[Mr. Fox]

I think for almost everyone personal preference is involved (in those cases where it is not, the person regrets it), but different people put a different amount of emphasis on being like other women/men.  If you don't get it, there are a lot of legal issues, dating difficulties, locker room fears, etc.  So if you want surgery anyway, you often want it even more so you don't have to deal with the aforementioned hassles.

There is also a lot of pressure to get it because if you don't want it, many don't consider you a real man or woman; this view is quite prevalent even in the transsexual community.  It is not pleasant to be invalidated.

[Nero]

Speaking for myself, I'm not concerned with the bottom or genital surgery. I was very concerned with having my tits removed. That was because I personally hated them. Even if it suddenly became the fashion for men to sport bras, I'd still be extremely grateful mine are gone.

[Nicky]

In a lot of places for your gender to be legally recognised you are required to have surgery. For some this desire for recognition is a valid enough reason.

I also think their are variying degrees of discomfort where genetals are concerned. You hear stories of mtfs that chop their own testicals off, or when they were kids tying a rope around their penis and jumping off a high place. Then there are some self identified mtf's that don't desire surgery (and this is a hot topic as some people believe you are not a mtf transexual if you don't want surgery despite still having the same gender identity as any women, best not to open that can or worms). I think some transexuals feel a little trapped when they don't feel the same level of discomfort that they are 'supposed' to feel.

Personally I would have prefered to be born with a meow. It would feel better, but I am presently not that distressed by having male genitalia and have no intention to change it.

So to answer your question, I think there are more than one reason why transexuals and non-binaries get genital surgery. But I suspect the biggest driver will be dysphoria - it is something that can drive you to self harm and suicide at it's strongest. Many will say it is no choice at all to get surgery.

[Mister]

While I realize that the gender binary is something that oppresses some trans and non-trans people, there are people who are perfectly comfortable identifying within it.  I'm one of those people.  I was born female, I am now male.  There is no androgyny nor flux in my identity whatsoever. 

I was able to change all of my documentation (and did) after having top surgery.  I chose to go ahead and have bottom surgery to be able to function as male as currently surgically possible.  While the old adage in the trans 'community' is that 'it doesn't take a penis to make a man,' it took one to make this one complete.

[Seshatneferw]

No need to apologise for the question.

There isn't just one answer to this, though: it seems that there are many ways to react to GID, and different people consider different aspects of gender as important. Yes, some of the women here have said that their main reason for SRS is to be able to pass in locker rooms or similar places and others have done it mainly to be able to change their legal gender, but still others have said these aren't very big issues, they simply must do this to feel complete. For the men it's about the same, although where the girls worry about passing without knickers the boys worry about passing without a shirt.

I'm firmly in the because-it-feels-right camp. Over the years I've mostly found a social role that I can live with, so by now my main gripe is about my body. The overall plan is to make such changes that are necessary and possible, and let others view me however they want to. I still think it unlikely that I'll ever get surgery, although I'm even more certain I'll never be entirely sure about whether or not I need it (unless of course it turns out I do). If I do, though, it'll be to feel like myself, not to get others to see me in some particular way.

  Nfr

[ericc]

I just thought of something this morning.... You can agree or disagree, it's only my opinion and theory.........

One of the things that I've noticed is that even though Non-Binaries are still excepted within the Transgender Communities, it's not being noticed enough. It seems like The Gender Binary System still plays an active role even in the Transgender Communites. People who are FTM or MTF feel they need to pass through the Gender Binary System in order to be truely happy and excepted in society. Plus it makes it more difficult for them to come out of the closet and causes more fears and anxiety for them about what people might think or say if they found out that they are confused about their Gender. It seems like everything is still tied down towards Binary. Though with Non-Binary, you are not the stereotypical Masculine Man or Feminine Women, I'm thinking if the Transgender community was more open to the option of presenting the Non-Binary option, wouldn't trasitioning be less stressful? Sure it's more of a risk to take within society not conforming to the Gender Binary System but at the same time wouldn't it cause less anxiety and more exceptance to indivisuality and all forms of Gender?

Just a thought and theory, you can agree or disagree.

[Constance]

I've certainly encountered the "commit to a gender" (that's an exact quote, BTW) from within the TG/TS community.

I'm not sure that if non-binary acceptance would make transition less stressful in general. For me, yes. But, I am an androgyne/genderflux person and (at this time) am not considering transition.

But for those who feel strongly about going from one side to the other, I think that the in-between stage would still be stressful. After all, they're still not where they want to be.

I could be way off-base here, though.

[ericc]

I guess from what I've read, It depends on the person and how they feel about living within their biological sex, right?

[Constance]

I guess from what I've read, It depends on the person and how they feel about living within their biological sex, right?

I'd say that seems about right, to me.

[ericc]

I do appolizige about this stereotypical question, I was just curious.

[LordKAT]

For me, all I ever felt was the negatives of having a female body while knowing it was wrong. I just want it fixed. I want to feel like a normal complete person and not this deformed thing  I was born into. I have put up with so much garbage from others that I felt like there was no me. I hid internally in my tower prison for so long that to find it was even possible to change my body to somewhat normal was a release. I will not stop until I can change what is possible before I worry about the impossible. I don't want to be deformed, I want to be normal. For me that means getting a male body or as close to one as is possible.

[Jaimey]

I have to hand it to folks in the non-binary forums though. Until we get involved in your discussions you all seem to mostly manage to be accepting and respectful of just about anyone and what they think.

That's a pretty neat thingie. I like folks who don't feel a particular need to establish and enforce a party-line. Kinda comfy.

Amen, sister! 

...from time to time, some will come over and get in a tizzy about things, but overall, I think we have an extraordinary group of people here!

[Kinkly]

I've had a lot of grief (mostly unintentional) from binary transpeople and gatekeepers just because i don't fit the mold of what "normal" in there group its also why i don't post outside of the androgyne group normally

[Silver]

It's their personal choice to fit into the binary. The opposite end of the binary, to be more exact.

Do I need all of the disclaimers?

SilverFang

[Mister]

It's their personal choice to fit into the binary. The opposite end of the binary, to be more exact.

It is?  Can you tell me which day I woke up and said, "Golly, I love the gender binary so much I want to live on the other side of it.  Screw that spectrum nonsense, it's one or the other!'  ?

I didn't choose to be binary any more than you chose to be non-binary (or perhaps you did choose). 

This language is the same tactic of "Well, they chose to be gay... "   or "Transpeople decide they want to be the other sex.."     

[Constance]

I have to agree with Mister. I certainly didn't choose to be non-binary.

[Jaimey]

I'd like to suggest we just view that post as a poor choice of words or ignore it all together...just putting that out there before the bickering starts, unless SilverFang wants to clarify (sie could have meant that a nonbinary person who gets surgery to look like the other binary sex chose to fit the binary...I'm not trying to put words in hir mouth, but just throwing out another possible reading of that statement...I hate arguments...).

(I actually agree with Mister and Shades, I just don't think it's an argument we need to go into in this thread)

[Constance]

Forgive me, it was not my intention to seem argumentative.

[Jaimey]

Forgive me, it was not my intention to seem argumentative.

Oh, it wasn't that...I just thought it might head that way if more people started in.