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Transabled?

Started by Nero, July 30, 2009, 10:41:35 AM

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Nero

A blog for the transabled.
transabled dot org/thoughts/other-thoughts/sophie-thoughts/its-all-about-you dot htm

"Sophie is transabled. She has been using a wheelchair more and more, and has been wheeling 'fulltime' for several months..."

Post Merge: July 30, 2009, 10:50:38 AM

comparison between transsexualism and 'transabled':

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Silver

Odd, but I guess it's not so different from us. I am a free of transableism so I can't say anything about it. Hmm. . . It's likely easier to injure yourself than to go through the hassle of TS transition. They get taken even less seriously than we do as well.

SilverFang
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Renate


  • Somebody who wants to have their genitals changed.
  • Somebody who wants their breasts removed.
  • Somebody who wants a leg removed.
  • Somebody who wants cosmetic surgery to look like an animal.

Where do you draw the line?
Which is healthy and which is a sickness?

I have had experience with GID, so that I understand that one.
The others strike me as strange and personally repellent.

Oh, well.
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Jay

I can't help but agree with Renate..

I just don't under stand it all...

Jay


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Miniar

Honestly, I have a hard time seeing the difference. It's scary when you think about it.

"How" exactly is out issues with out sex and gender congruence different? What makes our dysphoria "okay" to treat in this manner when others' are not?



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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LordKAT

My post seems to have disappeared. anyone know what I did that was wrong?
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Calistine

Quote from: Nichole on July 31, 2009, 09:21:02 AM
Personally, I have to admit that I have never understood people who are born with a bio-sex and gender-identity that matches their physical body!

Wow, how do they manage to get through their lives without severe psychological damage?

I mean, isn't that just the weirdest way to live?

No, we are a minority because we were in fact born in the body we opposite how we should be, its considered a birth defect. Although everyone wishes they could be the opposite sex for just one day, this is just who we are.
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Autumn

Quote from: Miniar on July 31, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Honestly, I have a hard time seeing the difference. It's scary when you think about it.

"How" exactly is out issues with out sex and gender congruence different? What makes our dysphoria "okay" to treat in this manner when others' are not?

Quote from: Miniar on July 31, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Honestly, I have a hard time seeing the difference. It's scary when you think about it.

"How" exactly is out issues with out sex and gender congruence different? What makes our dysphoria "okay" to treat in this manner when others' are not?

QuoteA transabled person is someone who desperately wants or needs to be disabled in some way. That's taken straight from Sean's glossary on transabled.org

A transsexual feels that their body is different from the concept of self they have for theirself. That is to say that while they may outwardly appear to be female they actually are male. This is confusing for the transsexual and people around them since other people see a female and naturally assume that the person is female.

A transabled person is in a similar position. For example a person may have an identity of someone that is paralysed but is not actually paralysed. Any disability may be substituted in for paralysis such as blindness, amputee, deafness, ceberal palsy, AIDS, and so on.

Because this is stupid.

We want to fix a birth defect. They want to cause one! "I have the identity of a blind person" - why? What on earth justifies this as any sort of reasonable psychological behavior? They're expressing an intense desire to permanently maim themselves, how is that different than someone who thinks they need to hurt themselves, or cut themselves, or kill themselves?

AIDs is an unnatural factor, it's an evolution of a cross special virus. 'I have the identity of a person with AIDs' - bull f***ing crap you do. That's like all the freaks out there who identify as being the spirits of anime characters ('otakukin', even further down the rabbit hole than 'otherkin', who of course make the furries look almost sane.)

This is sick, disgusting, and I am severely offended at the thought of being compared to, or lumped into any similar plight with these people.

If they receive their 'treatment' and are disabled... lose a leg, lose an arm, lose their hearing, their sight... what happens then? They go on disability because they can't work? They become a burden to society? They need lifelong care? They catch aids intentionally and need hundreds of thousands of dollars of drugs to survive?

Give us a few operations and a few thousand dollars of medications and we'll be happy productive people (if someone will hire us.)

The idea of people outside social norms banding together to protect diversity is one thing, but it's people who are genuinely disturbed who bring bad press to us all.

If somebody walked up to me and said "I don't have scoliosis, but, I have the identity of a person with scoliosis and want to have scoliosis", I'd probably punch them in their stupid face.
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Cindy

Münchausen syndrome. An uncommon but horrible mental illness. More usualy seen as Münchausen syndrome by proxy. More common ? But worse.

The syndrome takes the form as needing sympathy from the community for terribles ills the person suffers. Hence having a limb removed helps to gain that sympathy. By proxy you do it too  (usually) your child. My kid is sick, etc etc, can be extermely difficult to pick up on. The person is usually very well conversed and very knowledgable. Very mmanipulative, often understands the medical process well and will target  ER rooms as an acute syndrome, so everything is done before review.

Not saying it all is.
Only my opinion and not legal in anyway.

Is this associated with TG? No way. Any therapist would pick it. They are not concerned about the outcome, rather the procedure and its short and long term effects.

Hope this helps

Cindy
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thestory

Quote from: CindyJames on August 01, 2009, 04:40:57 AM
Münchausen syndrome. An uncommon but horrible mental illness. More usualy seen as Münchausen syndrome by proxy.

This is actually what I was thinking of when reading this blog. This sounds more like a need for sympathy and care, not a natural orientation or gender. There is a clear difference. Their need to be disabled physically harms them and puts their life at risk. For some it shortens their lifespan ( say for the person desiring to have aids. ) It is not safe and not similar in my opinion. I agree more with Autumn in this case.
This doesn't mean we go running around calling them freaks and being cruel. This means they need help. Mental help perhaps.
But they do not need to be encouraged however to do this to themselves, let alone allowed.
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Miniar

Quote from: Autumn on August 01, 2009, 04:01:09 AM
Because this is stupid.
A lot of people think we're stupid.

Quote from: AutumnWe want to fix a birth defect. They want to cause one! "I have the identity of a blind person" - why? What on earth justifies this as any sort of reasonable psychological behavior? They're expressing an intense desire to permanently maim themselves, how is that different than someone who thinks they need to hurt themselves, or cut themselves, or kill themselves?
While we believe we have a birth defect, not everyone sees it that way. In fact, when the physical body is examined, without reference to identity, most of us have perfectly (or at least reasonably) healthy human bodies, who just happen to be the opposite sex of what we are convinced that we should have.
Yes there's supportive evidence that there's incongruence between the brain and the body, but so far it is not conclusively proven.
Yet we want to remove and alter our bodyparts, muck with our hormonal balance, all for passing as something other than we were born as, which can be seen as self-inflicted "damage" because, like I said, the body itself's not actually damaged even if it's incongruent with our brains.

Quote from: AutumnThat's like all the freaks out there who identify as being the spirits of anime characters ('otakukin', even further down the rabbit hole than 'otherkin', who of course make the furries look almost sane.)
There are some perfectly sane otherkin out there and it's not like the concept of transmigration of the spirit is anything new. I will agree I've never met a reasonably sane otakukin, but even in lieu of that I won't simply state that everyone of that specific belief is a "freak" because that would just be judgmental, prejudicial, and well.. rude.
For the record, I am otherkin.

Quote from: AutumnThis is sick, disgusting, and I am severely offended at the thought of being compared to, or lumped into any similar plight with these people.
Just wanted to point out, there are people who think exactly that way about trans-folk.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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Nero

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Miniar

Quote from: Nero on August 01, 2009, 07:06:42 AM
otakukin?

People who believe they are incarnated people from other planes of existence. Only, those other planes of existence are known to human beings on planet earth as fiction.
In other words, people who believe themselves to be incarnated, fictional, characters.

So far, every one I've spoken to has been completely bonkers, but I don't rule out the possibility that there may yet be a rational, intelligent, human being out there, that can rationalize that belief in a manner that which I can respect.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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Calistine

Believe it or not I do not think its stupid. I think it might be caused because maybe they don't get enough attention..and they think if they are blind or something people will pay attention to them. It is quite an interesting mental illness..but we shouldnt be so quick to judge.
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LordKAT

If they want to hack off a limb or whatever, let em. Just don't expect me to pay for it by trying to collect disability payments. Pay for it themselves. If you want to live in a wheelchair, go for it but don't go thinking I should buy one for you or feel sorry for you in any way.
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Audrey

Hmm.... Its too bad that they feel this way.  I feel pity for them but Ill be damned if my tax dollars go to treating their "disorder" or paying them disability.  If they want this then they can pay for it themselves.  Just as I did for my SRS.  Having SRS doesn't limit the productivity of someone at least in the long term.  But sawing off a perfectly good limb is ridiculous.  My penis prior to SRS wasn't contributing to society in anyway so good riddance. 
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wylz

#16
Hi,

My name is Sean, I have BIID, and I am the owner of the link that Nero originally posted.

I am not poking my head in to your forum to cause an argument or a fight, but only to rectify some misconceptions, and to offer to answer any questions you might have.

BIID is a real condition. I will not go into the philosophical question of whether or not it is a mental illness or a "disorder". It just is real.

BIID is *not* in the Factitious Disability Disorder family. That is, it is not Munchausen. Transabled folks don't want the attention. We'd rather have the impairment we need and be left alone than get the positive attention of hundreds, but still be "able bodied". Don't just take my word for it, you can check out the research yourself biid dash info dot org lists and comments on most of the currently available research on the topic (disclaimer: I also own and run that site).

In response to Autumn. I am sorry we offend you deeply. I guess we *are* similar in that, since so many people are unreasonably deeply offended by transsexuals.

Note that people who get themselves infected with AIDS on purpose do not actualy fit the BIID "criteria".

Also note that we aren't after going "on benefit". People with disabilities are able to, and do, work for a living. I have been living as a wheelchair user for the last 12 years. A bit like some of you have to do a "real life test", well, I'm stuck where I'm at, surgery isn't available to me. The point is, however, that I am gainfully employed as a wheelchair user. I don't know anyone who has managed to become an amputee who is sucking up the system dry. To assume that because someone is an amputee or paralysed means they can't be productive part of society is a major misunderstanding, if not an outright negative prejudice.

It's also worth considering that once people get the physical condition they've needed since childhood, they don't need "more". They are happy. And they keep working.

It's interesting that people refer to disabilities as "defect". Most people with disabilities I know (and I know lots) see disability as a difference, not as a negative point. Is it possible that your disgust has more to do with your negative view of disabilities than anything else?

There's been a few comments on the thread that say that we need help. Well, the thing is, there is no help. Seriously. The vast majority of psychatrists and psychotherapists have NO idea what BIID is. Beyond that, studies are showing that neither psychotherapy nor pharmacotherapy do one bit of difference to BIID. In my experience, psychotherapy has helped me understand myself better and handle my situation better, but it has NOT resolved my need to be paralysed.

To suggest we need to get help is akin to me saying that being transexual is just a phase you're going through and if you seek appropriate counselling you'll stop feeling that way.

I often compare my condition to transsexual. Because our life stories and experiences and emotions towards our bodies are indeed extremely similar. We experience confusion, shame, guilt. We experience ostrarcism from our own famillies, and society. I don't, never have and never will, claim that BIID and GID are the same thing, or from the same cause.

There has been evidence that BIID actually has a neurological cause. Folks at UCSD have actually found differences in the brain, and neurological responses that differ from one limb to another in people with BIID. So folks, it's not completely "just in our heads".

Anyway, I'm open to answer and discuss with people who have an interest in understanding better. Flames WILL be ignored.

Sean O'Connor
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Alyx.

Oh fun.

I like talking to diverse people. :)

Question then: While I can understand how a limb might be annoying or you get the feeling it shouldn't be there, wouldn't it be hard to go through life without it? And how does a person with said limb have the idenity of a disabled person? If it's just a disliking of a limb, it has nothing to do with idenity, right?
If you do not agree to my demands... TOO LATE
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fae_reborn

I can honestly say I really don't understand someone's need to be disabled, if they aren't already, I just don't.  To be born disabled in some manner is one thing, but to want to become disabled?  As trans people, we're modifying our bodies to match our internal gender, as healthy and safely as possible.  That's why the Standards of Care exist, as frustrating as they are sometimes.  But for someone with BIID who actually wants to make physical changes at the risk of serious health risks (i.e. paralysis, blindness, etc.), that's just totally different from transgender issues, and I echo the statement that the two groups shouldn't be placed together.  I won't belittle your experiences, Sean, but I just don't get it.

Quote from: AutumnIf somebody walked up to me and said "I don't have scoliosis, but, I have the identity of a person with scoliosis and want to have scoliosis"...

I actually have severe scoliosis, was born with it, and it's impacted me by not being able to be employed in certain fields involving physical labor (i.e. heavy lifting or bending), which is hard because I like working with my hands, and have an interest in building/construction.  I have issues with my physical limitations because I think that others perceive me as weak, and I hate that feeling because I'm such a strong person mentally.  Believe me, I wouldn't wish scoliosis (or any other disability) on anyone.
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Susan

Personally I would appreciate it if the people who advocate for BIID would not attempt to compare it to transsexualism. There is a world of difference between needing to make your body congruent with your mental gender and the removal of working limbs, eyes, ears, or whatever. Topic locked.
Susan Larson
Founder
Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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