A Question for the Guys

[K8]

I hope you guys don't mind a question from across the aisle, but I was wondering if this is a male/female thing or a TG thing...

I have found women more accepting of my transition than men.  Is this because I'm joining the women's side and not being true to the team I had been assigned?  (One of my female friends said: "I'm very happy with my gender.  I can see why you'd want to be a woman." )

Or is this because women tend to be more open and men have more rigid rules of behavior?

(There's a third possibility of course: That this is just my experience and no one else's – the Kate Effect or something. )

I know guys don't like to talk about feelings and all that, but c'mon, whaddaya think?

I love you guys!

- Kate

[Miniar]

In my experience.. Most men don't like anything that challenges their masculinity, and the way they see it, transfolk do.

[Sandy]

Without speaking for the guys, Kate, I can tell  you that it isn't the Kate effect.

I've had quite a number of woman express their acceptance of me mostly in ladies room conversations and girl time lunches.

While most of the guys that I have spoken to directly as I came out, expressed support, but really, *really* did not want ANY of the details.  You can imagine some of their internal thought processes (you're going to get *IT* DISASSEMBLED!?! THEN TURNED INSIDE OUT!!!! *~shudder~*)

Some women on the other hand wanted to know *everything*!

Anyway, I don't think your experiences are unique.

-Sandy

[Dennis]

I haven't noticed a difference gender-wise, but pretty well everyone was fine with my transition. I do notice that, of the people who continued to have trouble with pronouns long after I transitioned, most were women. The only guy who screwed up pronouns is gay. I'm not sure if those people still screw up pronouns, because I don't see them that much any more.

Dennis

[sneakersjay]

I can't say I've had many openly express their feelings about my transition other than being supportive.  I've found many guys supportive -- maybe because I'm joining their team?  Don't know.  Both genders mix up pronouns but it varies on who does it on a given day -- most try hard but forget.

Actually the ones who seem to remember pronouns the best are my younger male coworkers.


Jay

[Mister]

I have had an equal number of men and women take issue with my transition.  My results may be skewed as 95% of my friends, acquaintances and co-workers do not know.

[Kara]

I think there might be a psychological answer. We as human beings tend to like those who are similar to us. Therefore, someone becoming more similar to a person would be greeted with approval from that person. Nothing more complicated than that. 

[Calistine]

It actually depends on the person. Usually men are just like whatever, but women can be monsters. Though usually they can be nice about it.

[pretty pauline]

I would definitely agree with you there Kate, Iv always found women more accepting of my transition, some even fascinated by my situation, but very accepting.
On the other hand Iv found most men very unaccepting, I had 3brothers, 2brothers reluctanting accepted me but couldnd understand why I wanted to be a girl ''giving up male privilege'' whatever that is, my other brother just couldnd accept me, could never understand why I had my ''manhood'' removed and replaced by a vagina.
My Dad only accepted me because it made my Mother happy, she was trilled at gaining a daughter, but he never spoke about my transition outside my family.

After all these years, yes my brothers are now used to me as their sister but I don't think they ever understood me wanting to the woman I always was inside, most men just don't understand a girl like me.
p

[Chamillion]

None of my straight friends or acquaintances, guy or girl, had a problem with my transition at all.  Strangely enough, the only 2 people who had a problem with my transition were lesbians 

[Nero]

Without speaking for the guys, Kate, I can tell  you that it isn't the Kate effect.

I've had quite a number of woman express their acceptance of me mostly in ladies room conversations and girl time lunches.

While most of the guys that I have spoken to directly as I came out, expressed support, but really, *really* did not want ANY of the details.  You can imagine some of their internal thought processes (you're going to get *IT* DISASSEMBLED!?! THEN TURNED INSIDE OUT!!!! *~shudder~*)

Some women on the other hand wanted to know *everything*!

Anyway, I don't think your experiences are unique.

-Sandy

yeah I think the converse for that with us would be (but you don't have an *IT*! what else is there?)

[JonasCarminis]

None of my straight friends or acquaintances, guy or girl, had a problem with my transition at all.  Strangely enough, the only 2 people who had a problem with my transition were lesbians 

i think its the fear of lesbians that other "masculine women are joining the 'other' team"

[Walter]

Like what Kyle said it kinda depends on the person. I've met guys and girls who were accepting. There wasn't more guys who were accepting or visa versa. My current g/f (internet) doesn't like me being trans. I haven't dated one person who was "ok" with me being trans yet.

But the rejection from a guy or girl still hurts equally

[GamerJames]

i think its the fear of lesbians that other "masculine women are joining the 'other' team"

I agree. Without trying to generalize too much, many lesbians I know seem to feel that not only does transitioning to male reduce their lesbian numbers, but also means one more man to "steal" the women from them or some crap like that. And even many of the less aggressive responses are along the lines of "but you can be a masculine woman -- just be a butch! Why do you need to take it so far??"

Sigh.

[petzjazz]

Absolutely. I've told very few people, but I've found that the acceptance rates generally go in this order (from greatest to least):

Women > Men > Mild-to-zealous Christians (I say "Christians" because the Jewish people I know have been quite accepting. It's the Christians that whip out the "This is a crime against God and Jesus" pogo stick to bound over having to listen to anything about documented evidence for trangenderism as a medical condition)

I suspect that men don't actually accept that I will "really" be a man. I'm fairly sure that unconsciously, their mentality is "Well, she wasn't born a man and I know her as a woman, so she's a woman except she's not going to be attractive anymore and therefore she will have no relevance to me at all". Whereas I feel that most of the women I tell genuinely accept that I will be a man (with no asterisk at the end). 

[GamerJames]

I suspect that men don't actually accept that I will "really" be a man. I'm fairly sure that unconsciously, their mentality is "Well, she wasn't born a man and I know her as a woman, so she's a woman except she's not going to be attractive anymore and therefore she will have no relevance to me at all". Whereas I feel that most of the women I tell genuinely accept that I will be a man (with no asterisk at the end). 

I absolutely, 100% thought my brother was going to feel that way. Such as "you can think you're a giraffe all you want, but it don't make it true". But honestly, all of the bioguys I've told have basically said variations of:

a) "Duh, I could've told you that you're a guy!"
b) "You're just as much a guy as most guys who were born that way -- moreso than some!"
c) "Gender is all about who you are in your brain anyways, it doesn't really matter what parts you have"

And my brother that I was so worried about? Shades of all three of the above responses. Go figure!

I wonder if maybe some of us (not saying this is the case for you, just throwing out theories) think that bioguys won't accept us or see us as "real" because we're intimidated by *their* "realness" and feel insecure about measuring up to them? I think maybe that was the case with me, but I'm not trying to paint anyone else with my brush, just opening it up for discussion.

[LordKAT]

Women are more outspoken and can get really nasty when your in "their" restroom. I have only met 3 people who were violent over it and they were all male. Women question, men try so hard to ignore and leave me out whenever possible. Apparently my job gave them some line about not harrassing me and one guy took it as I can do anything I want and they can't touch me. Bull roar and I can go into that another time.

Suffice it to say that I think the acceptance or support is about equal, the expression of men is more extreme if shown at all and women express their thougts all the time and therfore to less extreme ends of the feelings they have.

[Teknoir]

All my friends are cismale, so my view is a little skewed. I didn't say anything directly, I just posted on facebook and the news spread from there, thanks to a gossip loving ex (I did it on purpose... I'm too lazy to disseminate my own information).

They don't really care. It's very much an "oh.... *shrug* ok, whatever" and go back to doing what you're doing thing.

And honestly? I prefer it that way. I don't really care what other people think of my transition, and I don't need them surrounding me and asking me about it constantly. It's nice to have a bunch of people who carry on business as usual ('cept with a name and pronoun change, of course). I can feel more human and less like an art installation.

[K8]

I wonder if maybe some of us (not saying this is the case for you, just throwing out theories) think that bioguys won't accept us or see us as "real" because we're intimidated by *their* "realness" and feel insecure about measuring up to them? I think maybe that was the case with me, but I'm not trying to paint anyone else with my brush, just opening it up for discussion.

Thanks for all the comments.  (Keep 'em coming.)  This discussion really helps me make sense of all this. 

This comment, James, struck me because I remember thinking when I was young that I wouldn't be happy becoming a woman because the "real" women wouldn't accept me into their club.  Oddly enough, it is their acceptance into their club that, more than anything else, really knocks me out.  (Pardon me while I dab my eyes.  Must be the hormones.)

- Kate

[Jeatyn]

Guys have been more accepting I think. Women definitely mess up pronouns more.

Womens reactions have mostly been along the lines of "what?! are you crazy?! I'd kill for your figure and you're getting rid of it?!" and they still seem to think I'm part of their "team" - it's very awkward when I'm hit with the "bloody men, eh?" type conversations.