Stealth: Unless you've "Got it all", you're still in a closet

[Fer]

The epiphany I've had of late is that the language we use to describe ourselves and our situations is either for or against us.  I've realised that you can't educate someone into accepting you and you can't be a woman by explaining how you used to have a penis, or how you used to be male, or how you're a male 2 female transsexual.  Society and individuals will regard you as male with an explanation such as that because everyone knows that a male can never turn into a female.  And no one can understand that we've always been female.  I've stopped trying to educate people because they'll never get it.  I've been a transsexual for too bloody long.  I'm tired of it.  Now that I've finally reached some balance in my life, GRS is out of the way, passing isn't a problem & residing in a different country is feasible, I only want to be known as a woman.

There's an article that speaks for itself:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/sexuality/disclosure.html

The thing is, if you disclose, you tend to cease being a person who is fun to be with, of good character, having fascinating ideas or interests etc. You become just a "transsexual". Full stop. "Oh? So-and-so? She's a transsexual, did you know?". Not "she's really fun". Not "she does so-and-so". No, "She's a transsexual". She used to have a dick. I changed over to reduce the drama in my life and try to become a productive human being without a host of distractions about who and what I was etc etc and disclosing tends to defeat that aim.
When you disclose you are not actually saying that you are - for all practical means and purposes - a woman (who so happened to once have a male body and lived a male life). Instead you become a "transsexual".
Since transsexualism is rarely of any consequence to most people's lives, a "transsexual" is a caricature created by the media and urban myths. To some people "transsexuals" are she-males on porn sites. To others they are sexually predatory gender benders who hang around in the gay scene, tottering on their stilettos and sporting mini skirts while they look for trade. To others, they are crossdressers who lost the plot and probably have an issue with their mothers. And so on. Being a "transsexual"means havig one quality that totallyu swamps anything else you may be.
Usually, the only people who truly "get it" are those who have or have had a good TS friend and they will probably suspect you anyway, since they intuitively learn what combinations of androgynous aspects that are giveaways.
So when you tell someone that you've had a sex change, most people will immediately superimpose this caricature over the top of you. That is, the real you ceases to exist and they get the completely wrong idea of who and what you are, and all explanations tend to be seen with suspicion since it runs contrary to what they "know".

[Nero]

The epiphany I've had of late is that the language we use to describe ourselves and our situations is either for or against us.  I've realised that you can't educate someone into accepting you and you can't be a woman by explaining how you used to have a penis, or how you used to be male, or how you're a male 2 female transsexual.  Society and individuals will regard you as male with an explanation such as that because everyone knows that a male can never turn into a female.  And no one can understand that we've always been female.  I've stopped trying to educate people because they'll never get it.  I've been a transsexual for too bloody long.  I'm tired of it.  Now that I've finally reached some balance in my life, GRS is out of the way, passing isn't a problem & residing in a different country is feasible, I only want to be known as a woman.

There's an article that speaks for itself:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/sexuality/disclosure.html

very good point, Fer.
I'm afraid if I decide to be 'out', I will be seen as less than a man because of the 'used to be a woman' stamp I'll have.

[sweetstars]

This may look like my first post but I spent a lot of time here in 2004-5 during my transition.  During my transition, I had no real intention of going stealth, largely because I didn't think it was possible.  Then I went to Mark Zukowski and got a new face.  I am 5'6", 140 pounds, and slight so I pass well.  I developed a great voice.  To strangers, I pass 100% of the time, even on the phone.  Suddenly, stealth seemed possible and so I was stealth whenever possible. 

But as a late transitioner, I had friends, a business, too many contacts, and many other things that would occasionally pop up during the day.  I developed a second career as a musician and there, I was stealth because I had quit playing years before so I had zero history in the local music scene.  In effect, I developed a double life, unavoidably out during the day, stealth by night.  I began to live in fear that something would happen to blow my cover.  Eventually some of my clients saw me out at night and word got around.  As it happened, nothing was said, nothing happened.  People evidently knew but it became an unspoken subject, at least around me.  I was always addressed correctly as miss or ma'am.  I should be quite happy.

As it turns out, I'm not.  I don't know who knows and who doesn't.  I have recently realized that by trying to construct this second stealth world, I had simply exchanged one prison for another (closet is really too tame a label).  To wrap yourself in untruths and half-truths, you end up in a prison of your own making.  To be stealth is to have no history unless you lie or embellish.  I wish I was proud of what I am but I am not.  I am a woman so to acknowledge that I was once male is cut I can scarcely stand.  I hate that I was ever male.  I guess I now see my attempts to be fully stealth partly a refusal to deal with who and what I am. 

The problem is mostly in my head.  I have had a very successful transition in that I kept my spouse, kids, family, job.  Yes, the transition was hell, but I survived.  I should be happier than I am.  If other people can accept me, why can't I?

I think this is a critical difference, you still have ties to your past.  Many of the younger trans women out there those ties really don't exist anymore.  Between moving around, changing jobs, friends moving in and out of your life stealth basically kind of happens.  If you never do the whole marriage and kids thing (and probably in most cases never would) and have very little ties to the places you are living, stealth kind of just happens.  Thats what I mean when I say its more than a generational issue, its more of a life circumstance issue.  This is a big reason why its so hard for younger trans women like myself to relate to older ones (or even formerly married ones), for us marriage is an after transition goal, and unimaginable before transition. 

[Steph]

... the stench of envy...

Ah the stench of envy... very smelly and hard to mask...

I think the fear of discovery leads some to think that a stealthy life isn't possible and I think for the most part, those of us who are not out and proud strive, with varying degrees of success to be stealthy.  We get tripped up when it comes to relationships especially when the prospect of marriage emerges.

The words "Trust" and "Honesty" when tossed into the relationship pot present us with a bit of a conundrum.  Do we break cover and tell or do we remain stealth and hope we're not found out later on in life.  A very tricky thing as to my knowledge there are only two things guaranteed in life and that is death and taxes.

-={LR}=-

[DawnL]

I don't understand why they have the need to come here and tell others to (or imply that others) do the same?  To me, that has the stench of envy written all over it. 

You're either reading too much in these posts or not reading carefully enough.  I think the general theme with most is that stealth is the most desired state but not always obtainable.  Those of us with a past have to deal with that past and that seems to be the subject here.  I wouldn't discourage anyone from going stealth but perhaps what everyone is saying is this: whatever path you choose, there are costs.  If you are out, you deal with the prejudice and so on.  If you are stealth, you can never be completely honest with anyone. 

In my case, I pass unequivocally.  If I moved to another state, someone would have to dig very hard to uncover my past.  I chose to stay, I have family and other things in my life that meant the cost of moving to achieve full stealth was simply not worth it.  Again, making these decisions involve costs and sacrifices either way.  Such is life. 

I believe that is all anyone is saying here.

[Stealthgrrl]

There is an uncredited quote above about how once people do know you're trans, then to many of them that's all you are. I hate that.

[K8]

I am definitely one of the older transitioners here.  I'm sorry if I sound like I'm trying to discourage stealth.  I'm just saying be careful and realize that chances are good that at some point you will be found out.  If stealth is what you want and need and feel you can do, fine.  I am just concerned that you not be hurt.

I was career military with a very high-level clearance.  I was also a closeted cross-dresser.  There was always the danger of being outed.  I accepted that and had plans to deal with it in an honorable way that would not compromise what few secrets I knew.

My point is that if you are in stealth, you need to realize that your cover could be broken at any time.  To protect yourself, you need some idea of how you will deal with it when it happens.

For me, I am just so happy to finally be out of the closet and open to those around me, I am not willing to go back into another closet.  I currently have many friends, all of whom know I used to present male.  We talk about all sorts of things.  Some of them may think of me as "that TS", but I really doubt it.  I'm not in a romantic relationship now, but, being older, that is not as important to me as it is to a 20-something.

That cranky old broad, 
Kate

[DawnL]

There is an uncredited quote above about how once people do know you're trans, then to many of them that's all you are. I hate that.

This passage?

"The thing is, if you disclose, you tend to cease being a person who is fun to be with, of good character, having fascinating ideas or interests etc. You become just a "transsexual". Full stop. "Oh? So-and-so? She's a transsexual, did you know?". Not "she's really fun". Not "she does so-and-so". No, "She's a transsexual". She used to have a dick. I changed over to reduce the drama in my life and try to become a productive human being without a host of distractions about who and what I was etc etc and disclosing tends to defeat that aim."

This passage is seriously flawed.  This MAY be true with people you are just meeting, or with casual acquantainces, but generally not with the people who know you well.  My overwhelming experience has been that people continue to see you as fun, smart, funny, talented, whatever (or obnoxious, rude, boring) and CAN see past your transness. 

[Stealthgrrl]

This passage?

"The thing is, if you disclose, you tend to cease being a person who is fun to be with, of good character, having fascinating ideas or interests etc. You become just a "transsexual". Full stop. "Oh? So-and-so? She's a transsexual, did you know?". Not "she's really fun". Not "she does so-and-so". No, "She's a transsexual". She used to have a dick. I changed over to reduce the drama in my life and try to become a productive human being without a host of distractions about who and what I was etc etc and disclosing tends to defeat that aim."

This passage is seriously flawed.  This MAY be true with people you are just meeting, or with casual acquantainces, but generally not with the people who know you well.  My overwhelming experience has been that people continue to see you as fun, smart, funny, talented, whatever (or obnoxious, rude, boring) and CAN see past your transness.

You make a good point, Dawn. Thank you.

[sweetstars]

I don't think one realizes how segregated HR departments and background checks are now from the people who will manage you.  Alot of companies and agencies have done this as a way to avoid discrimination.

With that I am coming from the circumstance that there are those who strive for complete stealth and panic when it is blown, and those, like most younger transsexuals, don't necessarily seek out stealth, but it just sort of happens.  Honestly, its not lying or not being honest.  In the ladder, there are some people who are rather close who do know, in my case its my boyfriend and some close friends, and most other people do not know.  Like I said, its complicated for an older transitioner to even comprehend this, because literally, you don't realize its happening most of the time, you just come to a point where is sort of already happened.  There is no attempt at this, this is not like those women who try to live deep stealth.  Rather this is an instance where assimiliation just happens, and along with it stealth just happens.  It is not that I lie about my past either, its just alot of my pre-transition life, fits really well into my post transition life.  There is just a bunch of going to school, being in theater in HS, etc.   Everything I have pre-transition done fits together really well with being female, there is no lying with regards to personal history, especially in everyday conversation. 
I am not one of those "no one shall never no" types, when I talk about this assimiliation I am not talking about deep stealth.  I am talking about a degree of assimilation, and like I said, this is something older transitioners struggle with a great deal to even understand.  But for younger transitioners this is just something that tends to just happen, whether we desire it or not.  We get to a point where we are sick and tired of talking about transition, and transition just becomes something that was done and you move past rather than a defining aspect of a person.  Even then those around you don't see you for your trans status if they do know, but rather for who you are.  You quit worrying, you quit talking about transition, you just live life.   

This is the hard part and why there is such a divide in terms of understanding on this issue.  Alot of the experiences of young transitioners are so radically different that there is not much shared ground outside of the medical process itself.  Beyond the medical aspect the experience is very different, in fact its hard for older transitioners to get.

[Nero]

I agree Nikki. There's more similarities than differences. What real differences are there between late and early transitioners in terms of stealth other than the spouse/ex and children? I assume early transitioners have family who know as well.

[tekla]

Well one difference, and its not only huge, its hugely obvious, the older you are, the more history you carry with you.  The more you carry, the harder it is to lose.  If you transition at 20, you don't have much of a record beyond some school stuff, you can get out with a college degree in your new name, and few people go back past that.  Later, you've been married, you have kids, you have a credit history, a job history, people who know you and all that.  There are simply more people to blow your cover, more past events that don't line up quite right with the current narrative.

[Julie Marie]

I've said many times, "It's one thing if they suspect but quite another if they know." When people know your past, sometimes that's all they can see.  When you transition before someone's eyes it's very difficult for them to erase the past they had with you.  Many times impossible.

Living in fear sucks.  It sucked when I was hiding I was a CDer.  It sucked when I was out to everyone but work and worried I'd be seen by someone from work.  And it sucks when you meet someone and worry they will treat you different because you may not have passed with them.  If you think you're going to get caught in a lie and there will be consequences, you are living in fear and that sucks.

Being open and honest is good for your conscious but all too often there's a price to pay.

Julie

[Steph]

How come it hurts so much when I bite my tongue

Well one difference, and its not only huge, its hugely obvious, the older you are, the more history you carry with you.  The more you carry, the harder it is to lose.  If you transition at 20, you don't have much of a record beyond some school stuff, you can get out with a college degree in your new name, and few people go back past that.  Later, you've been married, you have kids, you have a credit history, a job history, people who know you and all that.  There are simply more people to blow your cover, more past events that don't line up quite right with the current narrative.

So very true.

-={LR}=-

[Nero]

seems like it would still be possible to start over. Lynn Conway did it, didn't she?

[Steph]

Oops! Does anybody else smell it?  Or is it just me?  See?

See told you you couldn't mask it

-={LR}=-

[sweetstars]

Like I said, I don't think alot of people are getting what I am writing.  This is not deep stealth where you can be outed with an HR office or something like that.  The truth is most HR offices maintain confidentiality as its legally required in alot of states.  It seems like many are missing what I am writing.  This is just getting to a point where most people don't know in ones life.  Like I said, much of what you older folks are bringing up is some illusion of deep stealth, which is NOT what I am talking about, again it kind of shows the misinterpration that frequently happens, because one is removed from the circumstance I am talking about and are only seeing it through a certian conceptual angle rather than actually living it.  I think some are misinterprating what I am saying is deep stealth where one fears of being "discovered".  This is not what I am putting forth, rather that those instances where discovery comes up are so far and few between and easily dismissed, it becomes something you did rather than who you are.  The fact is with younger transitioners, even when there is information such as credit reports out there, it is more something you "did" and people look past it if they do find out, rather than with older transitioners...which seems to be more of "who you are".  The stealth aspect happens more incidentally, and NOT intentional deep stealth.  I wish I can explain it beyond that, but honestly the paperwork of the past and the potential for discovery is often so limited, you begin to move past the whole deep stealth concept.  Sorry if this doesn't make sense, but thus like I said...this is where the gap in understanding really lies. 

[tekla]

Well, also to the degree that you are marginal, its much easier to lose all that.  The more professional you are, the harder to hide, or, conversely, the more you need it.  That's the reason that though several university professors have transitioned, none of them have managed to do the stealth deal, because of their past history of degrees, writing, publications, presentations, citations, and awards are all necessary to keep with you.  Even if I were to get the PhD changed to the new name, there is no way I could go back and get the rest changed, and walking in someplace with a 15-20 year old PhD with no publishing, no presentations, no books is just going to get me shown the door.  I have a friend who's current ability to run a major mortgage company is predicated on her having been a BoA VP for years.  In any kind of elite situation you are among a very small group of people (hence elite) that are not going to change that have a history with you that are going to be very hard to change also. If all you were in your past life was a skid row bum, its easier to move on.  If you had any success and want to stay in that field, you don't.

[Julie Marie]

Yep, for us older farts, our work history will be needed to secure a job commensurate with our skills and experience.  When my employer was showing me the door after I transitioned I sent out resumes to other electrical contractors.  Of the calls I got each interviewer said I had a VERY impressive resume and one went so far to say "I don't see women in the trades with a resume like this."

My resume was outing me.  I know of no woman who has done what I have and, apparently, neither did any of the contractors who called me.  And no, I didn't get a job with any of them in spite of my "impressive" resume.  After the phone call, I never even got invited to come in and interview.

So much for stealth.

Julie

[Natasha]

Well, also to the degree that you are marginal, its much easier to lose all that.  The more professional you are, the harder to hide, or, conversely, the more you need it.  That's the reason that though several university professors have transitioned, none of them have managed to do the stealth deal, because of their past history of degrees, writing, publications, presentations, citations, and awards are all necessary to keep with you.  Even if I were to get the PhD changed to the new name, there is no way I could go back and get the rest changed, and walking in someplace with a 15-20 year old PhD with no publishing, no presentations, no books is just going to get me shown the door.  I have a friend who's current ability to run a major mortgage company is predicated on her having been a BoA VP for years.  In any kind of elite situation you are among a very small group of people (hence elite) that are not going to change that have a history with you that are going to be very hard to change also. If all you were in your past life was a skid row bum, its easier to move on.  If you had any success and want to stay in that field, you don't.

yup yup but how about if somebody transitioned early & got their PhD or masters afterwards?