Transsexuals, marriage, and right-wingers

[Andrew]

How, exactly, do extreme right-wingers deal with gay marriage with respect to transsexuals? Think about it: if they allow a transsexual woman to marry another woman, they've just allowed two people who are--for all practical purposes--lesbian females, to marry. If they allow a transsexual woman to marry a man, though, they've just allowed two people with XY chromosomes to get married--not to mention admitting that a transsexual woman really can be an actual woman!

Has anyone heard the extreme right's response to this? I've hardly even heard it mentioned. Short of barring transsexuals from marriage altogether, there's nothing they can do to stop this "gay" marriage from happening! If only the gay rights movement appreciated how much transsexuals were doing for their cause!

[BrandiOK]

  The hub of the marriage issue isn't based on chromosomes or gender...it's based solely on genitals, at least so far.  The "gay marriage" activists, while having good intentions, have done more damage to thier cause than good.  As a result of the recent activism many states have now amended thier constitutions to prevent "gay marriage" from ever being legal. 

  My personal opinion is simple bad timing.  America's political structure is predominatly ultra conservative and has been for several years.  While George Bush often said he was in favor of "civil unions" and other rights for GLBT I think it's plain to see at this point that his rhetoric was election based.  There will never be any kind of "fair" treatment for those who fall outside the conservative christian value system until the people stand up and vote in a change of government.  Of course....obviously being GLBT we are a minority (an often despised minority at that) and lack the vote potential to force changes on a national level. 

  As it stands right now post operative transsexuals do have the right to marry someone of the opposite "genital".  I imagine that if activists choose to use this as a platform to argue points for gay marriage that may change.  The last thing any of us need is to draw attention to the points you mentioned.

  While I am 100% in favor of activism and fighting the "good fight" I think that this particular battle needs to stay as far away from the transsexual issue as possible. 

[LostInTime]

Some religious conservatives think that we are an abomination before their god (oh and jesus but do not call them poly theists because it ticks them off) but will not picket a Red Lobster.  So no matter what we do, we are wrong and should be locked away from society (read:  them).

If a M2F marries a man, they get up in arms because they consider it a gay marriage.  If a M2F marries a woman then they get up in arms because you are in a lesbian relationship.

Since I have a wee bit of a sadistic streak I will usually use one or that other as a club in order to get them worked up into an emotional rage.  Once the emotions take over, they lose the debate.  I use a similar tactic to get anti gunners worked up during a debate.  Cheap shots but fun for me. 

Court wise it depends on where you live.  Many courts go with the equation of whatever you were assigned at birth is your legal gender forever, no matter if the very same government allows you to modify the gender marker.  Usually the issue will come up if someone contests the marriage and/or you married under another gender in the same state.  If the issues do not pop up then you are likely to have a very normal marriage, until death do you part or divorce.

YMMV and it is always changing.  Nothing is written in rock.  Get registered and vote.

[Kim]

Move up here with us crazy canucks in Canada. It's all legal up here now, just your choice of service is limited in that religious institutes are not obligated to perform it. I find myself in a turn about on this issue. Before realizing my being IS, or being a part of our TG community at all, I was an advocate to keep marriage it's traditional definition. But now I can't do that. As a matter of fact groups are trying to get the issue reopened under the new government and I have been contacted and apologized and told them no I will not help again and I will explain why when the time is right. After all, I am married to a beautiful lady and considering who I really am, all woman as per se (IS), I can't see me fighting off same sex marriage ever again and finding any good reason to do so. 

[Elizabeth]

Hi everyone,

This can really vary state to state. Texas for instance does not recognize transsexuals.  Under Texas law you are the sex of your genes, no matter what surgery you have or what diagnosis you have. In Texas you can only marry a person of opposite genetic sex of what you are.

Other States let one change thier gender status under the las, once they have surgery. In those many of thoser states a transwoman would not be allowed to marry a GG as they both have the same gender marker legally. In all states if you were married before transition, your marriage remains valid regardless of ones legal gender change.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[BrandiOK]

How in the heck could Texas even enforce that without performing DNA tests to search for XX or XY chromosomes on every single applicant?  They couldn't go by birth certificates because many states issue new birth certificates instead of ammended ones.

Christie Lee LITTLETON  v. Dr. Mark Prange  Oct. 27, 1999  does indeed say that, according to the state of Texas,  it makes no difference what surgery, hormone treatment or therapy you have had you were born and always will be a male in thier state. 

Note to self:  Texas is now on my crap list.

[Shana A]

To the best of knowledge, if you were in a heterosexual marraige and you legally change gender, that marriage is now invalid except if you live in Massachusetts where gay marriage is legal. As to wheter you can even legally change, that's on a per state basis. There are currently a number of cases in the courts dealing with these issues.

zythyra

[Sheila]

To the best of knowledge, if you were in a heterosexual marraige and you legally change gender, that marriage is now invalid except if you live in Massachusetts where gay marriage is legal. As to wheter you can even legally change, that's on a per state basis. There are currently a number of cases in the courts dealing with these issues.

zythyra

I don't think so. I have been post op for two years now and I have been married for 37 years. No one has ever said that we have to have a divorce. I have made my taxes out since I started paying taxes, which is a long time and in our last four tax statements I'm female. So is my wife. They don't make a reference to gender in your taxes. I have filed married status for the last 37 years too. There are a lot of TS that are married.
Sheila

[Susan]

Actually they havn't hurt their cause at all. If a State's Constition is in violation of the US Constitution then it that portion of it is invalid and the US Constitution takes precidence. So all it will take to invalidate all those Amendments is for a Judge to correctly rule that one is unConstitutional under the US Constitution much like when they ruled that the texas the sodemy law violated the Constitution, and it invalidated the other state laws on the matter. Sooner or later a Federal Judge will rule against one of these Amendments and the US Supreme Court will have no choice but to back them up.

[Shana A]

I don't think so. I have been post op for two years now and I have been married for 37 years. No one has ever said that we have to have a divorce.

Shiela, I'm very glad to hear that you've remained married and I have some friends who've also stayed married post SRS. Technically though, according to US law, these are now considered to be lesbian relationships and so aren't recognized as legal marriages except in a couple of states that have legalized same sex marriage.

zythyra

[Sheila]

Yes, I know I'm the exception to all rules. This is what I have heard since I started transitioning. I got my name changed without any troubles, I got my license changed without any problems, I got my SS changed without any problems, I even got a passport that is valid for 10 years without any problems. Mind you all that I did this with the minimum of paper work. I have not shown my letters only to my surgeon. I had my letters from the court to change my name on my license, that was the only document that I used. Now people are trying to say that my marriage is going to be invalidated. I think the reason I get a lot of things done is that I'm an optimist, my glass is half full or full. I do not think about the negative. I do what is asked of me and I have succeeded in what I do. I'm really tired of being told that I can't do something or that the sky is falling. I may die someday because I do this. Don't go there as you will get hurt. Well, excuse me, I have been in a redneck bar and no one has ever even blinked at me. I got my drink and talked with a few people. They know who I am as I'm not in any closet here. Now I will get off my soap box and return to my way of living. Sorry to be such a downer to all of those who want things in turmoil.
Sheila

[Kate]

Technically though, according to US law, these are now considered to be lesbian relationships and so aren't recognized as legal marriages except in a couple of states that have legalized same sex marriage.

I'm not so sure that's true.

I've always heard that existing TS marriages remain perfectly legal and recognized. However, once divorced, the usual existing laws THEN apply should the TS decide to marry again. You can remain married in what's now a "lesbian" relationship, but if you divorce your wife, you can't marry her again. That sorta thing.

[LostInTime]

An existing marriage to someone deemed the opposite gender of your birth gender is legal.  The reason being is that in many areas whatever gender was originally assigned to you is your's forever and ever no matter what you may do and no matter what records might have been changed.

[Hazumu]

A very interesting topic.  Allow me to send it spinning off a bit.

Next weekend a couple is getting married.  The bride is listed as male on her birth certificate, and the groom as female on his birth certificate.  The marriage licence is also made up to reflect the birth certificate genders. 

I don't think the ultra-conservatives can stop this marriage, as it is a 'normal' heterosexual union between a man and a woman, though if they get wind of this they'll amend their rules to something like "...who are still behaving as the sex that God made them at birth," or some such.

Karen