Quote from: Steffi on October 02, 2009, 05:31:22 PM
Adolescent males have the same E levels as females * - the presence of T in the boys overrides the E completely.
*until much later in puberty, by which time females development is almost complete anyway. Source
Yes, if testosterone is higher it will pretty much cancels estrogen's effects such as breast tissue and hips development, yet it doesn't make the skeleton grow.. It's lack of higher estrogen levels which brings pretty much the same result (person growing taller etc) but for a different reason.
What I am trying to say is women are shorter etc not because of lack of testosterone, but because extra estrogen (at about year 12 nowdays estrogen levels start getting higher).
In boys, puberty usually start about 2-3 years later than in girls, when testosterone reaches high level it is converted to estrogen by enzyme aromatase which then slowly causes sealing of the growth plates.
Castrated boys actually grow taller than most boys, they don't have testosterone, they have lack of estrogen.
No testosterone, not high enough levels of testosterone to get to aromatase trigger levels or for aromatase to produce normal levels of estrogen, therefore, growth the natural low amount of estrogen finally seals the plates.
In gigantism Estrogen is given to seal the growth plates and stop growth.
That's why people with higher testosterone and earlier in puberty might be shorter, have narrow shoulders etc, that's because their high testosterone values are arotomized into estrogen which in place seals the growth plates.
There are cases of gigantism where the person is estrogen resistant
QuoteA very rare but more extreme version of "eunuchoid" tallness occurs when a mutation of the estrogen receptor reduces the response of the bones to estradiol. Estradiol is a byproduct of testosterone in both males and females, and is the most potent accelerator of bone maturation and closure known. If a person fails to respond to estrogen, growth can continue until late-20s or longer, and the affected person can reach 8 feet or more in height. Estrogen resistance is the only other endocrine condition that can rival growth hormone excess in producing gigantism
Many women who have late puberty or anything else, grow tall as men, their structure isn't that different.
Women gets a burst of estrogen at average 12-14 years old, which hastens bone maturation.
Male start puberty at average 14-16 of age, Ok, but even though they started puberty, where's the estrogen? measures of estrogen in men are like 2.5-50 normal reading. in women it can get up to over 500.
Which is why women grow less on average.
We already had a thread about hands size, is it not weird, if guys are so huge and full of testosterone, that hands size averages are 174mm and 189mm? give the person few more years to grow, of course their hands will grow, put the testosterone to 0 and estrogen to 0, be sure the hands will be bigger than normal males and females, the person will be taller, broader shoulders and all.
So I still disagree with you, if you have T, you get hair, ugh voice, muscles and stuff.
If you don't have E you get taller and grow more. YET, not any different than what any woman can potentially grow to, even WITHOUT T, just drop some of the estrogen, be resistant to it, whatever, leave the growth plate alone, you get the same.
It is a well established fact that the only really reliable way of identifying skeleton gender is the hips which grow with estrogen.
Which btw, some researches say it might not be estrogen that grows it but lack of testosterone (as testosterone interrupts it) and minimal estrogen. but let's leave it that way.
But the real bottom line is, it doesn't matter why people grew over the female average, what matters is they did.
