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Do you/have you activley avoided being seen with other transgendered people?

Started by rogue, October 13, 2009, 02:55:21 PM

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Steph

I think folks need to bring this thing into perspective.  Almost daily we all decide who we want to be seen with, who we want to associate with, many people, groups, sub-groups are excluded, that does not make one a racist.  I choose my own friends and acquaintances.  The same applies at work and at the local brew pub where I'm a regular, I choose the people I like to be with, people who make me happy, people who I'm comfortable with, people I can relax and enjoy myself with.  I am not a racist just because some are excluded.

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

http://www.facebook.com/switzerstephanie
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heatherrose




I judge people by how they treat other people. I choose not to associate with
people who judge people by their looks. I find them to be hollow and selfish.




"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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Alyssa M.

I absolutely don't avoid other trans folk of whatever stripe, status, looks, etc. Nor do I particularly seek them out, except for when I'm looking for support. The one issue that comes up is that sometimes being around trans women makes me more aware of my own insecurities -- that is, seeing their physical flaws reminds me of my own in a way that being around women who are obese or have bad acne or have no clue about fashion doesn't. That just means I need to work on my looks, confidence, and body image. I try to just look my best, whatever company I keep. I try to pass not by avoiding scrutiny, but by looking, sounding, acting, and being the All-American Girl from New York City. Other women can hang around with trans women without their gender being questioned -- if I can't, then I have failed. And if I don't hang out with trans women in order to avoid scrutiny, then I automatically fail. Avoiding situations in which I am likely to be clocked simply doesn't make me feel confident.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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Sarah Louise

Topics like this are always controversial, lets try to keep responses civil and not personal.

If not it will get locked.

Sarah L.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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heatherrose



Quote from: Alyssa M. on October 14, 2009, 05:12:26 PM...if I don't hang out with trans women in order to avoid scrutiny, then I automatically fail. Avoiding situations in which I am likely to be clocked simply doesn't make me feel confident.


This is it in the proverbial nutshell.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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Miniar

Quote from: Ladyrider on October 14, 2009, 04:53:44 PM
I think folks need to bring this thing into perspective.  Almost daily we all decide who we want to be seen with, who we want to associate with, many people, groups, sub-groups are excluded, that does not make one a racist.  I choose my own friends and acquaintances.  The same applies at work and at the local brew pub where I'm a regular, I choose the people I like to be with, people who make me happy, people who I'm comfortable with, people I can relax and enjoy myself with.  I am not a racist just because some are excluded.

-={LR}=-

Everyone chooses who to socialize with, that doesn't make a person racist.
But choosing they won't socialize with a  race, regardless of the individual personality and character of the various individuals of that race, then that's a different matter...
That's the point really.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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Shelina

Well rogue, we think exactly the same. However, for the moment as I generally do not pass, I don't really care being with those like me and in fact I am very happy and have fun with them but for sure after transition, I'll definitely cut all ties with them not to leave any doubts.
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Julie Marie

Socially we are encouraged not to judge a person by their appearance.  "Don't judge a book by its cover."

Socially we are given a very clear message that appearance is how someone you will first be judged.  "A first impression is a lasting impression."

Is it any wonder why we can't agree at times?

We are told:

"March to the tune of a different drummer."

"Be yourself."

"Be a leader, not a follower."

And then we are taught:

"As long as you walk, talk, dress, act just like everybody else."

Society is filled with mixed messages.  Everyone should be free to be themselves, to associate with whoever they want, to pursue whatever endeavor they want (so long as it doesn't cause another harm) and not be hampered by a society hung up on conformity.  Unfortunately, if you choose to do this, you have to be diplomatic about how you express this choice.

We are all pressured into conformity to varying degrees.  It's society's insecurity and phobias that make conformity so important.  Ignorance, and one's choice to remain ignorant, plays a role in that too.  Take away the social pressure to conform and then ask yourself if it would have any effect on who you would be comfortable making friends with.  No need to respond to that here.  It wasn't meant to challenge anyone.  It's best answered in your heart.

If I were to choose to be an activist for any cause I feel hampers our personal growth the most, it would be to get rid of society's need for everyone to conform.  Imagine what that world would be like...

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Northern Jane

Quote from: Maggie Kay on October 14, 2009, 09:00:27 AMI don't think this is then a matter of discrimination.  It is a matter of shared experience

That, for me, is the key. A young femme MtF - no problem - I understand that.
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rogue

Some very good observations have been made on this subject, what interests me is the dynamic interactions of challanges that may occur during the transition process, and how there are a finite number of similar life experiences with approximate stressors. Additionally how these sequenced changes may correlate to commonalities in cognitions of transgendered individuals.
In that, prior to transition, I had no personal experience of prejudice, or of how an individual who may exist in a social setting such as a high street without proactivley monitoring ones environment, to a situation of being highly vigilant, and self monitoring on an intensive basis. With a subsequent cognitive outcome of such behavioural modification, without adequate support, resulting in polarised and fixed feelings of paranoia, and acute vulnerability. Further more, londitudinal coping strategies may include the adoption of rule goverened behaviour, whether they be rational or maladaptive, they serve as defences, and ways to get through each day, or minute by minute. 
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Alyssa M.

Could you translate that into some language spoken by those of us who aren't humanities grad students? Mandarin, say, or Icelandic, perhaps? Eschew superciliously erudite prolixity!  :police:

Just teasing. ;) I think I caught your drift. But, wow, that was some seriously academic discourse you had goin' on there!
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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heatherrose

"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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Alex_C

I feel that "friends are friends" too and I don't mind hanging out with those still transitioning etc as I am, and I just don't care.

That being said, that may answer why this other transdude I've met who lives near me isn't emailing etc at all - he's done the driver's license etc is fully transitioned, and may not want to be seen with me, as I am a sort of hybrid creature right now. And well, it kinda sucks but then, he's roughly 20 years younger than me and too much of an "old man" lol. Beer, motorcycles, shooting pellet guns, staying up all night watching all of Beavis and Butt-Head, going up to the City to check out all the sex shops, drinking too much beer, blowing stuff up, etc no amount of good clean guy fun offered has been able to smoke him out and he's always in bed by 10 anyway so .... yawn.
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Monique Martinez

This thread peaked at post #18, but still a worthy read! :P

The thread title was/is:-
"Do you/have you actively avoided being seen with other transgendered people?"

"Do you/have you...".

It asks for personal opinions yet a portion are questioning each others opinion.
Personally, for me no (not up for debate).
If a TG is conscious about being read by the public while around another TG it could be because they are questioning their own ability to pass. Some of us put an importance on passing, it's not horrible unless you feel like you do pass, because if you do then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Natal people hang out with TG folk all the time and don't worry about being labelled a TG.

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aubrey

I'm cool with it as long as they are fairly good looking but not better looking than me bcuz OMG I would die!

seriously...as long as they are a friend, have thier heads on straight and don't make a fool of themselves on a regular basis it's fine by me however they present/identify. It's not what they present but how they present.

Comorbidities and ameliorating perplexities notwithstanding in a curiously strange and offbeat potpourri that is....
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rogue

Ooops...Sorry...I am a psych graduate and studying in the next step in a health setting, I get a bit intense in the whole analysis, observation...more analysis thing.....I should take a break. I didnt mean to be rude or snobbish.. I guess its possible to come across that way if you write/express yourself in a wordy/swallowed a thesaurus way. I'll engage sensible mode next time :      )

Luv

Rogue x 
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wabbit2

Quote from: aubrey on October 16, 2009, 06:43:07 AM
I'm cool with it as long as they are fairly good looking but not better looking than me bcuz OMG I would die!
lol that is so funny!!  and yet can be so true, must be the female in us....I love seeing very attractive Trans woman but def get a bit 'grrrrrrrrr' about it at the same time espeically if they are much younger then myself.

Having said that I have no problem associated with other TS people, perhaps when I was starting out on transistion I knew more trans woman as I was looking for support.  Generally I don't seek TS people out these days, its more of a 'do we have anything in common' concept.

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Monique Martinez

Quote from: wabbit2 on October 17, 2009, 07:37:17 PM
.. but def get a bit 'grrrrrrrrr' about it at the same time espeically if they are much younger then myself.


I get a lot of compliments, most I don't understand or take as someone trying to lift my mood. But when I am out somewhere and I say that I'm bugged about something or upset over anything to do with me I get that, "pffttt how dare you be upset about anything, just take a look around you honey"..attitude. It sucks and it's confusing. What I feel and go through on the inside is no different to what other people feel, we all have our hang-ups. This is one of the main reasons I don't go out as often as I do, still getting my head around it.
S.
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Tank Grrl

To answer the original question: Yes, sometimes.

I have lots of trans friends that I have made during my transition. But since I've started passing pretty well, I find myself rethinking hanging out or going out to certain places with certain people. I mean, I've worked SO hard and lost so much in order to blend in/pass. Why be seen with those who can't (or worse, don't really even try) to pass? It invites scrutiny that would not normally happen. If I were cis female, I'd give much less of a rip about being seen with transwomen and possibly having people think I'm trans also, but I'm not cis.



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NikkiJ

Quote from: Tank Grrl on October 21, 2009, 11:26:40 AM
To answer the original question: Yes, sometimes.

I have lots of trans friends that I have made during my transition. But since I've started passing pretty well, I find myself rethinking hanging out or going out to certain places with certain people. I mean, I've worked SO hard and lost so much in order to blend in/pass. Why be seen with those who can't (or worse, don't really even try) to pass? It invites scrutiny that would not normally happen. If I were cis female, I'd give much less of a rip about being seen with transwomen and possibly having people think I'm trans also, but I'm not cis.

You make a valid point. Each individual has to make their own decision on whether they did this to become a woman, or to become a TS. I have encountered at least one individual who seemed to do it for the attention more than anything else.
Better watch out for the skin deep - The Stranglers
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