A question for guys who have been on T FOR A LONG TIME

[Elijah3291]

I was thinking, what happens when you age on T?

the same as any other bio male? Grey hair, balding.

I dunno I was just curious

What happenens if you have been on T for years and years, but go through a rough patch, and can't afford T for a few months?

[Silver]

Haven't but I'll answer anyway.

Yes you age normally. You are still human. You'll shrink less on T as well. It all depends on genetics whether or not you bald, and in my understanding transmen have a half the chance a biomale has of balding because it's recessive.

If you can't afford T you'll probably be about the same, but with less energy (assuming all of the changes are finished.) If you still have your internal reproductive organs then ovulation might resume.

[Mr. Fox]

Yes you age normally. You are still human. You'll shrink less on T as well. It all depends on genetics whether or not you bald, and in my understanding transmen have a half the chance a biomale has of balding because it's recessive.

Thank goodness!  I don't know if my poor vanity could stand it.  As for going off for a while, Sebastian will probably be able to answer you for that.  I can't really help with any questions here, being very young and pre-T.

[Miniar]

Graying is not T related. I've been Graying since I was 13-14.

[Luc]

Okay, I guess I've been called out on this one, so I'll give my limited knowledge. I haven't exactly been on T a long time... about 16 months, I think, but I don't think there's anyone on here who's really been on it too long with the exception of Dennis or Mister (who seems to be MIA). I've only known one guy who was on T into old age... I think he was about 65 when I knew him, and he just looked like any other little old man, albeit shorter. The balding part doesn't necessarily happen when you get older; I'm losing my hair already. As I've said before, hair loss has to do quite a bit with genetics, so if your brothers or uncles started losing their hair around 25, you're likely to see it around that time (or once you start T, if it's after that). My dad lost all his hair at 17; my oldest brother's hairline was receding around 20. I count myself lucky that I still have a full head of hair at 27, despite the fact it's thinning dramatically.

As for going on and off T, I've done it twice, for 4 months each time, though not by choice. What I experienced was fat redistribution to what it had been before; my facial hair thinned out and became softer, and body hair diminished, though not to what it was before T; periods came back after 2-3 months; voice stabilized, but didn't get any higher; and my moods changed... I had PMDD before T, and of course it came back with my periods, and my bipolar worsened (it gets better, or at least easier to handle, on T). All of this is pretty much concurrent with what I've heard from other guys who've gone off T for one reason or another; there was a TLC documentary on Thomas Beattie in which he talked about losing muscle tone and hair when off T to prepare for his pregnancy, and he'd been on T for about 5 years prior to that.

I imagine that the longer you're on T, the longer it might take for those changes to take place if you have to go off it, but also, I can imagine it would take an even tougher toll on your mental state. For me, being off those 4 months at a time was agonizing, simply because I knew how much better I functioned on T. That said, I should mention that I noticed I had about 1/5 of the energy off T as I had on. It's not a fun thing. Of course, if you've had a hysterectomy, you'd probably have different effects from going off T, due to the lack of massive levels of estrogen.

Hope this helps.

SD

[CodyJess]

Something along this question that I've wondered (and am going to research now, but would be glad to hear from someone who already knows or has an educated guess they're pretty confident in)...

Going off T later; does it lead to osteoporosis and other stuff, like in post-menopausal women? I have the vague notion that post-meno women take hormones to prevent some really nasty effects of aging, and I wonder how much this would apply to a transman who's been purged of those woman bits? Would getting those organs removed make HRT mandatory for health?

[Miniar]

I wonder how much this would apply to a transman who's been purged of those woman bits? Would getting those organs removed make HRT mandatory for health?

The answer is "yes" actually.

The human body needs "some" hormones to prevent osteoperosis.
So both in cases where mtf's have had an orchi and in cases where ftm's have had the ovaries removied, some hormones need to be added to the body from an external source.

[miniangel]

Original post deleted by poster, who pleads temporary brainfade due to not having had sufficient cups of tea this morning.

[Miniar]

"in fact, they still have quite an important role in postmenopause since some hormones (ie. testosterone) continue to be produced there"
This, right here, is my point.

It's not the same thing as being "post menopausal" because the ovaries are no longer there. Without ovaries/testes and without external addition of hormones, there's a high risk of osteoporosis.

[miniangel]

my apologies. i misread the quote about removal of ovaries. 

however, there is still oestrogen production in other areas, so.......

[YoungSoulRebel]

Yeah, what everybody else said:

You're still human, so you'll age normally.  The reason non-TS men tend to wrinkle in the face more than women is less t-related and more social-norms related -- men tend to be more likely to work or play outside, while women are more socialised into being indoor-active; men are also less likely to use facial soaps and moisturisers.

Balding is genetic, either way, but it's recessive and if your "sex chromosomes" are XX, then you're less likely to go bald than XY men; yes, excess testosterone often "activates" the gene (which is why TS women who go on androgen blockers and/or orchiectomy before they get a chance to bald too thoroughly will stop balding altogether), but the fewer years a TS man is on HRT may also play a part in how likely one may be to go bald.  The genetics for balding are a little complicated, but casual surveys seem to suggest that XY men are only 47% likely to go bald, and XX transsexual men on HRT for *any* number of years seem perhaps 25%-30% likely (*tops*) to go bald.

And yeah, greying hair is not at all testosterone-related.  Not only Minar's example, but a woman at my step-mother's Meeting House started going grey when she was fifteen or sixteen.  Women are more likely to dye their hair to hide the fact that they're greying than men are, so I guess i can see some confusion there.

[Silver]

my apologies. i misread the quote about removal of ovaries. 

however, there is still oestrogen production in other areas, so.......

Not enough to maintain sufficient bone density. If I recall correctly fat cells produce estrogen so postmenopausal women with more bodyfat do a bit better in the bone integrity department.

If I recall correctly, there's a drug you can take in the absence of HRT that promotes bone density without having any other effects (well of course there's a possibility of odd side effects like any other drug.)

[YoungSoulRebel]

Not enough to maintain sufficient bone density. If I recall correctly fat cells produce estrogen so postmenopausal women with more bodyfat do a bit better in the bone integrity department.

The latter is correct but the former not so much.  Fat cells store oestrogen, but they don't produce it.  Is fat cells produced oestrogen, then post-/menopausal women who have every been overweight would be "better off" in bone integrity because fat cells don't die off easily -- when one "loses fat", what happens is the fat cells' resources are burned off and the cell shrinks, but still remains.  The cells may eventually die off completely, but since in most cases, they're still around for at least the next decade and change, if fat really did produce oestrogen, then the cells still existing would secure one from osteoporosis.  But since all the fat cells do is store reserves of hormone, then when the reserves are exhausted, they can't make more on their own.

[Myself]

testosterone helps keep bone density, one of the reasons older men are less in risk for osteoporosis is because they still produce some testosterone, unlike women whose ovaries shut down.

[Silver]

The latter is correct but the former not so much.  Fat cells store oestrogen, but they don't produce it.  Is fat cells produced oestrogen, then post-/menopausal women who have every been overweight would be "better off" in bone integrity because fat cells don't die off easily -- when one "loses fat", what happens is the fat cells' resources are burned off and the cell shrinks, but still remains.  The cells may eventually die off completely, but since in most cases, they're still around for at least the next decade and change, if fat really did produce oestrogen, then the cells still existing would secure one from osteoporosis.  But since all the fat cells do is store reserves of hormone, then when the reserves are exhausted, they can't make more on their own.

Knew I messed something up. Thanks, I was wrong.

testosterone helps keep bone density, one of the reasons older men are less in risk for osteoporosis is because they still produce some testosterone, unlike women whose ovaries shut down.

Estrogen helps with bone density too. But testosterone is better at it. Plus postmenopausal drop in estrogen is much greater than the gradual male testosterone decrease.

[Luc]

Balding is genetic, either way, but it's recessive and if your "sex chromosomes" are XX, then you're less likely to go bald than XY men; yes, excess testosterone often "activates" the gene (which is why TS women who go on androgen blockers and/or orchiectomy before they get a chance to bald too thoroughly will stop balding altogether), but the fewer years a TS man is on HRT may also play a part in how likely one may be to go bald.  The genetics for balding are a little complicated, but casual surveys seem to suggest that XY men are only 47% likely to go bald, and XX transsexual men on HRT for *any* number of years seem perhaps 25%-30% likely (*tops*) to go bald.

Ugh... wish I were one of the 70-75% who don't go bald... and yet, it doesn't look to be that way. As far as graying hair, though, it's funny... I have no gray or white hairs, except about 3 white ones on my chin. Weirdest thing... I keep considering plucking them, so they quit interfering with the weirdness that is my blonde, red, and brown beard (my family has weird facial hair genetics), but they're starting to grow on me (lol). However, there's nothing that I've ever heard that would indicate ftms go gray, so to speak, any earlier than bio guys.

People often think that when an ftm goes on T, he's giving himself a death sentence, or cutting his life short. From everything I've read, that's not the case at all. The only thing T does in terms of longevity, as far as I'm aware, is gives you the same susceptibilities you might've had had you been born male.

SD

[YoungSoulRebel]

People often think that when an ftm goes on T, he's giving himself a death sentence, or cutting his life short. From everything I've read, that's not the case at all. The only thing T does in terms of longevity, as far as I'm aware, is gives you the same susceptibilities you might've had had you been born male.

Yes.  This is why I tell people that women don't necessarily "live longer" than men (my maternal grandfather outlived my maternal grandmother by eighteen months, and was already two or three years her senior -- statistically speaking, she "should have" outlived him by ten years) by virtue of being women or having oestrogen dominant most of their lives.  Women tend to outlive men for two reasons:

1) testosterone tends to increase one's susceptibilities to things like heart failure, and
2) for ridonkulous social reasons, men tend to put off going to the doctor, even when they know that they need to go see one.

Even in this day, there's no reason for the adult male natural life-span (as in: excluding murders, accidents, etc...) to be as statistically lower than the average female life-span, due to the advances in medical technologies, including life-saving medications for diabetes, heart issues, and so forth.  The only reason it's still significantly lower is cos men are typically conditioned into thinking that anything less than Grease Burgers and seeing the doctor more than once a decade is "being a sissy".

[Arch]

The only reason it's still significantly lower is cos men are typically conditioned into thinking that anything less than Grease Burgers and seeing the doctor more than once a decade is "being a sissy".

Now, really. Any man who goes to the doctor that often really IS a sissy.
Post Merge: November 04, 2009, 03:35:12 AM

People often think that when an ftm goes on T, he's giving himself a death sentence, or cutting his life short.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I would have lived much longer without transition. I was a suicide waiting to happen, or maybe a madman waiting for that last straw. T either extended my life or gave me the capability to find my way to a quality life outside of the mental ward.

[Miniar]

Also, as more women find themselves in jobs with similar/same levels of competitive stress and income (such as lawyers, judges, people in higher levels of the corporate ladder, and such) the difference in risk for hearth disease becomes smaller.
It's not testosterone or masculinity itself that ups our risk, but the "associated" stuff.. which we can easily dodge with healthy diet, exercise, and learning to just chill..

[Luc]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I would have lived much longer without transition. I was a suicide waiting to happen, or maybe a madman waiting for that last straw. T either extended my life or gave me the capability to find my way to a quality life outside of the mental ward.

Well... I don't do suicide. But I definitely think my quality of life has improved dramatically since transition. My mother still, over three years after I came out to her, talks to me about how it's just a phase. Yeah... I'm quite certain it isn't. She worries that I'll incur health problems via shooting T, but won't listen to me when I try to tell her there really aren't any inherent dangers in it, so long as I get regular check-ups.

Men also tend to have shorter life spans because they put themselves in riskier situations. Considering that I'm about as cautious and hypochondriacal as they come, I think I'm safe. I figure I'll be lucky to hit 75 due to the cigarettes, but I should get to 70 safely. I'm good with that.

Oh, and as per that whole women living longer than men stat--- my great grandfather was born in 1896, and managed to live 96 years. He didn't have the benefit of our great healthcare advances for the majority of his life, but he was lucid and quite mobile up until a year prior to his death. His wife died around 65 or 70, I believe.

SD