Verbal abuse. . hate crime?

[zombie]

is verbal abuse a hate crime?

[Janet_Girl]

Depends on what was said and the circumstances.


Janet

[Cindy]

In Australia there are laws to prevent people from speaking publicly in a manner that will be provocative and induce hatred. I think the UK has similar laws. I have no idea about the USA.


Cindy

[zombie]

In Australia there are laws to prevent people from speaking publicly in a manner that will be provocative and induce hatred. I think the UK has similar laws. I have no idea about the USA.


Cindy

Yeah I'm not sure about the USA either, even though I live here.  I'm sure someone has heard of the group with their leader Fred Phelps.. I hope they stay away from my funeral.  They say god hates this or that, but it's really themselves that hate.  that just made me think because they speak publicly about hating people

[jesse]

in the us do to the first admendmant it is difficult to prosecute verbal abuse as a hate crime. Speach is protected as long as it is not i forget the legal term but basically as long as it serves a social value and is not purley directed at generating hate or violence. So having said that yes it can be hate crime... will it ever get prosecuted not likely unless it is in conjunction with an act.
There is also in colorado at least no such thing as a hate crime persay hate crime is used as a sentence enhancer here. So for instance if you burn a black persons house down it is arson if you do it while shouting racial slurs then it is elevated to hate crime and you will do twice the time.
jessica

[Cindy]

Hi
I'm not familiar with Mr Phelps and his cronies. Although I think they have been mentioned here before. But as I'm in Australia they don't get any hearing here.

However I am always amused by groups who profess to know what God thinks. And it always agrees with what they think

I have to say I gave up in believing in gods a long time ago. I have no problem with people who do. I just get a little tired of people who come to my door and tell me they can save me. Then they notice I'm wearing a skirt and blouse, haven't done my makeup and I've still got bits of beard shadow present (still being zapped). Suddenly I'm unsaveable (this is a new adjective ); I had one person start fingering their crucifix .  Whoa Buffy here I am

Cindy

[Britney_413]

I am not an attorney but I have a general grasp of the laws. You need to be more specific for us to best answer your question.

However, generally where the line is drawn is when free speech becomes harrassment. I am talking about the laws of the U.S. as you didn't even say what country you are in. In the U.S. people generally have the right to speak their mind as long as they are not disturbing the peace, making threats of violence, or harrassing someone.

I'll use a couple of minor incidents I have dealt with as examples. Several months ago I was leaving a bar with a friend and a pickup pulled up and two men started asking weird questions probably to hear my voice to see if I was genetically male or not. While this interaction was becoming a nuissance, so far nothing illegal was happening. They then started asking why we were dressed like women. Again, this is still fair free speech. However, it was at that point that I specifically told them to leave, that I am not to be bothered, and that the conversation is finished. I began yelling at the two men to immediately leave and they left and screamed some profanities while the truck was heading on down the street. While they were clearly "hating" on us, their speech was still protected under the First Amendment in the Constitution. Now, had they have failed to leave when I told them to leave or if they had gotten out of the truck or otherwise continued the interaction, then that would be considered harrassment and would be illegal.

Another example is much more recent. I am not full time but am taking on a bit more of an androgynous look since my hair has grown out and I comb it more in a girl's fashion. Neighbors see me enter and leave sometimes as a boy and sometimes as a girl. About six apartments down, there are a bunch of guys that always hang outside seemingly 24 hours a day staring at anyone who is going about their business. This is quite annoying and rude behavior but they clearly live there and aren't overtly bothering anyone. Lately when they see me leave presenting as a girl, I will hear them snicker among themselves. Again, this is completely their right. Friday night, one of them started approaching me as I was entering my apartment (dressed as female) to ask me what time it was (which is kind of suspicious if you ask me). Obviously, they were testing my voice to see if I was really male or female. After I answered their question, the person goes back to the group and they all start snickering. When I left about 15 minutes later, several of them started yelling "Bro" and "Dude" at me to try to upset me but I refused to turn around.

That is an example of crossing the line and is potentially illegal and I may be reporting it to management. Neighbors reserve the right not to approve of my crossdressing but I also reserve the right not to associate with them either. They can snicker and laugh among themselves all they want as that is their right but they do not have the right to be up in my business or force unwanted interactions on me. So should this continue, I will confront the individual(s) and explain that I am not to be bothered and they are to politely stay out of my business. Once you state this, any further unwanted interactions are illegal and considered harrassment. Also, continuously yelling stupid things at someone late at night when they are lawfully going about their business could be construted as "disturbing the peace."

I highly doubt any of this could be considered a hate crime unless actual violence or property damage took place. Sadly, there are too many hate crimes out there against trans people. Sometimes these start out as confrontations similar to my two stories above that turn violent. This is why I try to be as prepared as possible. I will not hesitate to report any harrassment/disorderly conduct/threats to the police. I also will not hesitate to play hardball with such people either and should they act stupid and start overtly harrassing me such as banging on my doors or windows, I will be standing there with a shotgun in my hands.

I hope these examples help people understand what is considered legal speech and what is considered abuse as the original poster asked.

[Tammy Hope]

Yeah I'm not sure about the USA either, even though I live here.  I'm sure someone has heard of the group with their leader Fred Phelps.. I hope they stay away from my funeral.  They say god hates this or that, but it's really themselves that hate.  that just made me think because they speak publicly about hating people

Phelps is as reprehensible as any actual criminal but, if I understand your question...

no, in the U.S. words are not a hate crime in and of themselves (nor should they be)

they can be used as evidence of hateful intent should a criminal action take place under existing hate crimes legislation, but the words themselves are not a hate crime.

there ARE cases in which speech is criminal, but none in which it constitutes a hate crime.

[axlred66]

I'm 'zombie', my real screen name is axlred66.  My other id's got shut down.  I don't think I'd have a case made about it, because it was words written online.  Please forgive me I get weird sometimes.  At the time I asked I thought it would be considered a hate crime because of all the hate that was in the letter. thank you. 

p.s. what is it called when someone attacks you over the internet?

[Tammy Hope]

In internet parlance, an online attack if "flaming"

If you say something deliberately provocative in an effort to harrass someone or set them up for an attack or whatever, that's "trolling"

Not sure if that's the answer you had in mind.

[Miniar]

This post right here is not an attack, I want to make that clear, but I will mention a few things you may find uncomfortable none the less.
_

Hate-speech in Iceland refers to slanderous attacks on a minority,  subculture or an individual, as well as the suggestion of violence against a minority, subculture or individual.
Either way, a clear "intent to harm" is required.

I haven't studied international law but I do have a couple of lawyer friends and I have a fair grasp on common sense, and what I know includes this.
Just because you feel offended, insulted, or in some way get your feelings hurt, it doesn't mean that there's hate involved at all.

One of the things that is really hard for a human being to deal, on an emotional and intellectual level, is the possibility that something we "know" and care about may be wrong. Every time someone disagrees with us, we are forced to face the potential that we're capable of being wrong.
With your problems, this may be aggravated.

You have to realize that when people disagree with you, that doesn't equate hate, it doesn't equate any kind of attack even.

When someone however, calls you names, attacks you directly, suggests to others that you are in some way worthy of hate, then you've got a personal attack going and when that personal attack revolves around some part of you (like sex, race, religion, gender identity, sexuality, and such) then that attack is hate.

Saying "I don't believe in the christian god" is not hate.
Even saying "Christianity is BS" is not hate.
But when someone says "all christians are {insert derogatory statement here} and should be {insert suggestion of some form of violence here}" THEN you got hate.

[axlred66]

This post right here is not an attack, I want to make that clear, but I will mention a few things you may find uncomfortable none the less.
_

Hate-speech in Iceland refers to slanderous attacks on a minority,  subculture or an individual, as well as the suggestion of violence against a minority, subculture or individual.
Either way, a clear "intent to harm" is required.

I haven't studied international law but I do have a couple of lawyer friends and I have a fair grasp on common sense, and what I know includes this.
Just because you feel offended, insulted, or in some way get your feelings hurt, it doesn't mean that there's hate involved at all.

One of the things that is really hard for a human being to deal, on an emotional and intellectual level, is the possibility that something we "know" and care about may be wrong. Every time someone disagrees with us, we are forced to face the potential that we're capable of being wrong.
With your problems, this may be aggravated.

You have to realize that when people disagree with you, that doesn't equate hate, it doesn't equate any kind of attack even.

When someone however, calls you names, attacks you directly, suggests to others that you are in some way worthy of hate, then you've got a personal attack going and when that personal attack revolves around some part of you (like sex, race, religion, gender identity, sexuality, and such) then that attack is hate.

Saying "I don't believe in the christian god" is not hate.
Even saying "Christianity is BS" is not hate.
But when someone says "all christians are {insert derogatory statement here} and should be {insert suggestion of some form of violence here}" THEN you got hate.

I wasn't talking about any of you.  I was talking about "hate attacks" coming from my ex-boyfriend over the internet.

I KNOW that when someone disagrees that it is not hate.

This has nothing to do with christianity...

[Britney_413]

Maybe if you had been more specific in your original post, then you wouldn't have wasted all of our time.

[Miniar]

Christianity was being used as an example.

If your Ex is messaging you, the solution is simple... Quit accepting his messages.

[axlred66]

Maybe if you had been more specific in your original post, then you wouldn't have wasted all of our time.

Good lord.
Post Merge: October 29, 2009, 07:59:36 AM

Christianity was being used as an example.

If your Ex is messaging you, the solution is simple... Quit accepting his messages.

Sorry.

I don't know how to block people on gmail.

[Miniar]

Report Spam.

[axlred66]

Report Spam.

OHHHHHH!!  Man I thought that was used for obvious spam.  Awesome though, I will do that.  I'll go mark all his messages for 'report spam'.  I've been using gmail for a while now but i didn't know exactly how to work it.  lol thank you so much    

[Miniar]

you're welcome.