Vaginally inserting HRT mtf-post-op

[gothique11]

I was just doing some random info searches on Prometrium, and I came across a few sites (mostly about fertility) talking about putting Prometrium pills up their vagina -- apparently you can do that. They have a vaginal insert ones, but apparently they are the same (just shaped differently), and many women mentioned they used the orals for vaginals, and some took one orally in the day, and then at night stuck it up their vagina at bedtime (stating their doctors said they could do that).

I was like, uh, wow -- has anyone here tried that? (uh, post-ops, obviously... although, if you can stick it in your vagina, maybe you could stick it up your... butt? )

I just found it really interesting and never thought of that. I don't know if other progesterone tabs are the same, like provera, which is a bit different than Prometrium.

Then, all of this got me thinking -- you can put estrace under your tongue... it works fine that way... but can you stick an estrace pill in your vagina? Ah! I bet you could! I wonder if it would have any different affects?

anyway, interesting things you find late, late, at night, when you can't sleep. o_0

Of course, sticking pills up your vagina every night is probably not as convenient (or even comfortable) as taking them orally. But I am wondering if someone here as tried that route, anyway. Hum.

[Sandy]

I haven't tried it so I really can't say.

However, the tissues under the tongue and inside the rectum are some of the most active tissues to absorb chemicals.  They are absorbed directly into the blood stream.  Very similar in action to the stomach.  When a person comes into the ER with an OD, sometimes the doctors will administer a coffee enema to stimulate the body quickly without administering other powerful stimulants.  That's why you can get a buzz off of alcohol quickly by swirling it in your mouth before swallowing.

It may be that the tissues in a GG vagina are similar.  I don't know for certain.  I'm not a doctor, I just played doctor when I was a kid. 

The tissues of the post-op vagina are created by inverting the tissues of the penis, as you may know.  This tissue is not particularly absorbent.  While there is a process called polymorphism where these tissues become more like a vagina after a period of time, I really don't know if they would take on that particular aspect.  For a vaginaplasty that uses the sigmoid colon, it may be different.  In either case the polymorphism takes a couple of years to complete.  One of the things necessary is to have all the same capillary structures as a GG vagina encircle the neo-vagina.  Again, I don't know if that occurs.

Sounds like a great question to present to your surgeon or post-op doctor.

-Sandy

[Renate]

Vaginal estrogen is mostly used for post-menopausal vaginal dryness.
It gives the localized benefit of estrogen to the vaginal tissues while hopefully avoiding the systemic effect on the uterus (which might cause uterine cancer).

Localized effects is a reason that they tell you not to apply estrogen gel directly to the breasts.

But now you've got me worried about the localized effects of estrogen on my tongue!

[taru]

I was just doing some random info searches on Prometrium, and I came across a few sites (mostly about fertility) talking about putting Prometrium pills up their vagina -- apparently you can do that. They have a vaginal insert ones, but apparently they are the same (just shaped differently), and many women mentioned they used the orals for vaginals, and some took one orally in the day, and then at night stuck it up their vagina at bedtime (stating their doctors said they could do that).

I was like, uh, wow -- has anyone here tried that? (uh, post-ops, obviously... although, if you can stick it in your vagina, maybe you could stick it up your... butt? )

A friend of mine uses progesterone vaginally and is quote happy with the results. There is progesterone (cyclogest) that can also be taken anally.

[Purple Pimp]

Vaginal estrogen is mostly used for post-menopausal vaginal dryness.
It gives the localized benefit of estrogen to the vaginal tissues while hopefully avoiding the systemic effect on the uterus (which might cause uterine cancer).

This is what I've read as well.  Estradiol can be inserted into the vagina, but it doesn't really impact body-wide estrogen levels (so, no good for MtF HRT, though perhaps potentially for neovaginal dryness; it's something I've been contemplating giving a try).  It's a localized effect.

Lia

[taru]

This is what I've read as well.  Estradiol can be inserted into the vagina, but it doesn't really impact body-wide estrogen levels (so, no good for MtF HRT, though perhaps potentially for neovaginal dryness; it's something I've been contemplating giving a try).  It's a localized effect.

Actually it does impact body-wide estrogen levels. For some research on this see e.g.
http://tinyurl.com/y88jm5l

However neo-vaginas might be different, because the mucous membrane is different.

[Cyndigurl45]

Y'all keep dancing around it but know ones hitting it on the head, subligual, rectal, sigmoid, and GG vaginal cavity tissue when you look at under a microscope is all very similar as oppsed to penis tissue, the absobtion rate of internals is much greater then external tissue even if it's inverted...

[Bellaon7]

I have no problem with anal insertions, but for some reason to the idea of putting pills in there...it just unerves me.

[Butterfly]

I was like, uh, wow -- has anyone here tried that? (uh, post-ops, obviously... although..

No! & I don't think I'd like to try it either. ~laugh~

[Purple Pimp]

Actually it does impact body-wide estrogen levels. For some research on this see e.g.
http://tinyurl.com/y88jm5l

Thank you for bringing this data to my attention; I hadn't seen it before.  Maybe this depends on the dosage of estrogen?  For example, in "Low-dose intravaginal estradiol delivery using a Silastic vaginal ring for estrogen replacement therapy in postmenopausal women: a review (N. N. Sarkar, European Journal of Contraception and Reproductive Health Care 2003;8:217-224)," a relatively small increase in mean plasma estradiol was reported (3.9 pmol/l).  Of course, the peak in estrogen levels immediately following exposure and the longer-term measurements are two different things.  It seems like there are a lot of variables at work here (dosage, type of estrogen, receptivity of vaginal tissue to estrogen, age of person, baseline estrogen levels, etc.) making it hard for me to really say either way what's going on, especially what the result would be in transsexual women.

I smell a graduate thesis!

Lia

[Tammy Hope]

I have to ask then, is there any reason - if you wanted to dodge the liver-impact situation - why you couldn't routinely used the orals as a suppository?

[Bellaon7]

I have to ask then, is there any reason - if you wanted to dodge the liver-impact situation - why you couldn't routinely used the orals as a suppository?

Medically, the only thing I can think of is that the dosage may have to be adjusted downward, asuming you have access to regular bloodwork. If you have access to a Dr's prescription there may be cheaper options other than pills that deliver either transdermal, or inter muscle injections that bypass the liver prior to entry into the bloodstream.

[deviousxen]

No! & I don't think I'd like to try it either. ~laugh~

First of all... Would said metamorphosis that made it more like vaginal tissue (As brought up here) be affected by localized estradiol?

... I hope for many of those cells to change... I know its entirely possible cause I've gotten CRAZY unexpected changes from HRT. Physical things that I've never heard of happening really...


And concerning this quote. That sounds like an old episode of South Park XD I don't think I'd ever like that 3 ; Lol... But neovaginal would seem fine. Some parts make me squeamish, others do not... Hurrr durrr