Living In Stealth - Does It Hurt Us?

[cindianna_jones]

Julie wrote:

That's one of the reasons I feel so strongly that we need to open the eyes ... of the public so they can see their beliefs need to be reevaluated. 

Okay Julie... pass me some tooth picks and the nail gun.  I'll do my fair share.

Chin up!

Cindi

[Julie Marie]

Julie wrote:

That's one of the reasons I feel so strongly that we need to open the eyes ... of the public so they can see their beliefs need to be reevaluated. 

Okay Julie... pass me some tooth picks and the nail gun.  I'll do my fair share.

Chin up!

Cindi

Nail guns don't work and neither do toothpics.  However super glue has shown some promise.

Chin is up but I can't see my toes.

Julie

[cindianna_jones]

You know, this topic has been a great exercise in fruitility.  I hate to say it folks, but I think the world is coming along.  It can take generations for an idea to catch hold and be accepted.  When I started, it was not terribly popular and that was twenty years ago.  I think things have changed significantly since then. 

Back then, there was active persecution against gay people.  You hardly see that any more.  And I truly believe that in most parts, a totally obvious TV or TS in "drag" barely raises an eyebrow.  People may not like it, but I believe they have developed a tolerance for different people.  And really, that is a huge step.  It took the crusadors a couple of centuries to figure out that what they were doing wasn't going to work.... uh... ooops... lessee... who's still trying to work through that one?

Chin up.... and all that.

Cindi

[Steph]

You know, this topic has been a great exercise in fruitility.  I hate to say it folks, but I think the world is coming along.  It can take generations for an idea to catch hold and be accepted.  When I started, it was not terribly popular and that was twenty years ago.  I think things have changed significantly since then. 

Back then, there was active persecution against gay people.  You hardly see that any more.  And I truly believe that in most parts, a totally obvious TV or TS in "drag" barely raises an eyebrow.  People may not like it, but I believe they have developed a tolerance for different people.  And really, that is a huge step.  It took the crusadors a couple of centuries to figure out that what they were doing wasn't going to work.... uh... ooops... lessee... who's still trying to work through that one?

Chin up.... and all that.

Cindi

I have to agree Cindi, society has certainly come along way compared to when I started to venture forth way back when.  Slowly but surely our turn will come, probably not fast enough for some.  Folks are still trying to get their heads around same sex marriage, so i guess we could possibly see a break though for ourselves sometime after that

Steph

[Julie Marie]

The more we are seen, the less will be thought of it.  Think about the media sensation caused 50 years ago when a man went overseas and returned a woman.  You couldn't get the media to even bat an eyelash over that today.  But we still have a long way to go.

Even though things like this are posted on a transgender forum that is mostly frequented and read by other TGs, each one of them takes the ideas formed here and carries them into the mainstream.  They may not be up on a soapbox expounding on why it's wrong to discriminate but I'll bet they pass on little seeds of thought that are planted and eventually take hold.  We are all interconnected and, though the process may take a while, eventually things change. 

Imagine what another 20 years will bring.

Julie

[cindianna_jones]

The more we are seen, the less will be thought of it.  Think about the media sensation caused 50 years ago when a man went overseas and returned a woman.  You couldn't get the media to even bat an eyelash over that today.  But we still have a long way to go.Julie

You know, I met Christine Jorgensen shortly before she died during my transitional year. Does that make me feel old?  No.  It really wasn't all that long ago that this tool was given to us.  Patience is hard when it spans a generation or two.  But those who follow us will have a much easier time.  Look at GB and Germany.  Public health care will often carry some of the costs there.  Now if they can only find that gene that causes this thing...

Cindi

Cindi

[Julie Marie]

Now if they can only find that gene that causes this thing...

Cindi

Honestly Cindi, now that I am where I am, I would never change being TS.  I have learned so much about people and human nature, prejudice and intolerance, love and compassion, all because I had to endure being TS in a closed minded society.  I can't think of any other way I could have learned all that.  Life has gone from being one of fear and cynicism to something so beautiful that words alone can't describe it.  Had I not been TS my head would still be stuck in the sand, unaware of the beauty around me.  Now I want others to see what I have seen, to open their eyes and take in the real beauty of life.

Julie

[cindianna_jones]

Julie, you are now free.   That's the beautiful thing that can come from our experience.

Cindi

[Sheila]

Cindi,
   I met Christine Jorgansen a couple of times. It was because she was the customer and I was the meatcutter. She was a beautiful woman then. I used to work in her neighborhood for a while. I was very much in the closet then and only had a wish that I could do what she did. I heard the nasty jokes from others in the store about her. That was in the 70's. I only wish now that I had the courage to stand up to those idiots. I also had the same with Renee Richards. She used to shop every once in a while at the Coasta Mesa store where I worked for a while. The same happened to her.
  I agree with what all of you have said. I have said it many of times, that by the time the college kids get to be my age,57, that Transgender will not be an issue, no more than being left handed is. Left handed was an issue when I was growing up. You see I started out being a lefty and was turned into a righty. I use to be able to be very good with both hands, but now the right has its functions and the left has its functions. Off the subject, sorry.
Sheila

[Stormy Weather]

...I also had the same with Renee Richards...

Reading about Renee Richards in a mid 70's copy of Cosmo stolen from my big sister was the first time I took the label of transsexual upon myself. In an instant, I then knew exactly what I was and what I had to do. I was probably about 12-13 or so...

Girly things came much earlier but all of a sudden, I discovered others like me and there was a clear path to follow. My sister never got her copy of Cosmo back. 

[Ricki]

 

I haven't been treated unfairly by society either.  However, I know that this has to do with the fact that "they" don't know I am TS....but what if "they" did?  would "they" accept me and treat me with the same kind of respect?

I have not but in my area i would not hesitate to think i would be beat half to death if not worse, downtown pittsburgh in certain sections of the city acceptable without complete worry-this is assuming you are bar hoping in the gay bars etc...I do not know about shopping at down town Kauffmans (it's gone now but a reference only)
Also about the social smears, i hear it all the time and its just about gays and the way people dress, heck i wore a pick t-shirt under a navy blue polo shirt and this oyung dietition all but called me gay?  she is a girl maybe 24 years old? what is that? Talk about a homophobic youth?
 it sickens me actually to sit with people i work with, peers, employees and hear how they talk and judge people, sickens me and yes it also puts me in a defensive mood cause coming out to these low lifes would not be a pleasing event! (yes i generally leave or excuse myself we do not lunch with the employees for that reason too many conversations can turn ugly and as managers we have moral obligations so we do not mingle technically-but i hear my peers and commanders sayign it to! )

Today in our meeting with our boss, a VP, me the other manager and our director (all women) we are finishing up and the VP a woman as well says well ladies we are done here then she quickly added gentlemen........
Come on......... I dress as a guy at work regardless of the genderisms so i must throw something out there?
Anyway ranting sorry

[KarenLyn]

Most of us transition hoping to lead a normal life somewhere down the road.  For some people, that may involve living as
a post-op transsexual, for others, it's trying to live a normal life as a woman (or man) which often requires some level of stealth. 
I don't think anyone who has endured the rigors and horrors of transition is under any obligation to anyone so I find this idea of an
implied debt to the trans community a bit offensive.  If you want to be out, be proud, be an activist, whatever, please do so--I
respect your choice--but please don't suggest that I have a similar obligation.  I don't.  The choice between out and stealth
should be just that, a choice, an entirely personal decision without any expectations or obligations.  I'm a woman with a
transsexual history, not a transsexual, and my history is my business alone.

Dawn

Well said!! I couldn't agree more.

Karen Lyn

[Chrissyts41]

When I finish transitioning, I expect to be one of those lucky girls who can successfully live in stealth mode and I probably will, but I won't totally abandon my community.  I can't see myself being out in public, running into another tgirl, and not at least saying hello, treating her like the valuable human being she is.  I would still participate online b/c I have so many friends in cyberspace and it's the one place a girl living in stealth mode can help girls who are just beginning to transition.
I don't consider living in stealth to be "leaving one closet just to hide in another" b/c I am a woman.  If I'm a woman, how can I be hiding in a closet if I'm just being me? 
I think that it is true that transition could be easier if there were more fully transitioned women who offered advice, but I think that the problem with that is that many of those women, having finally made it to the "other side" finally feel that they are free to live life as they should have always been living it and they leap into it and soak it up.  I'm thrilled for them! 
But here's the biggest thing to me:  As much as I'd like someone to hold my hand through my struggle to transition, sometimes I think that the most lonely times, the most difficult times, are the ones that I learn the most about myself and it's where I'm learning what I'm all about inside.  In many ways, that's the greatest gift of all.
Chrissy

[KarenLyn]

This may be a little off the topic but it's why I live mostly stealth.
1. I used to work in a call center and was out to the staff. We hired a new person who happened to be a lesbian. She was hitting on me until she found out I was TS then her whole attitude changed. 
2. While attending classes at one of the local colleges, I was outed to one of my classmates. She immediately switch pronoun usage. It was very embarrassing but she wouldn't stop.
3. My boyfriend's daughters HATE me.

So, as a rule, I'm not out to anyone I don't absolutely have to be. Why risk the pain?

Karen Lyn     

[Melissa]

This may be a little off the topic but it's why I live mostly stealth.
1. I used to work in a call center and was out to the staff. We hired a new person who happened to be a lesbian. She was hitting on me until she found out I was TS then her whole attitude changed. 
2. While attending classes at one of the local colleges, I was outed to one of my classmates. She immediately switch pronoun usage. It was very embarrassing but she wouldn't stop.
3. My boyfriend's daughters HATE me.

So, as a rule, I'm not out to anyone I don't absolutely have to be. Why risk the pain?

Karen Lyn     

Karen, I totally agree with you.  I attempted to be out more and was only hurt by it.  It DOES NOT change the way of thinking of those who are bigoted towards us.  All it does is leave us vulnerable to their attacks.

Melissa

[Kimberly]

...
Why risk the pain?
...

To raise awareness that we honest to goodness DO exist and ^*gasp* are rather boring to boot.

...
It DOES NOT change the way of thinking of those who are bigoted towards us.
...

True enough but it can wake the poor folks who heard the term once and rolled back over and went to sleep.

...
All it does is leave us vulnerable to their attacks.
...

Let them try...


We DO exist, this condition hurts VERY bad. Some nincompoop doesn't change that. A nice person does not change that. What might possibly maybe change that is for someone to have that brief favorable impression and NOT freak when their daughter says she is a boy. It MIGHT just ease some child's pain and NOT have to go though this hell hole of a life in denial.  Some little girl MIGHT get help before Testosterone has a chance to rake her body over the coals.


^*shrug*

[Arias]

Let them try...

Ah, heh. *makes note never to follow Kim into an alley*

[Julie Marie]

Last night Sandy and I were out grocery shopping and on the way home I thought of this thread.  I told her I knew I had implied that I didn't like the idea of going from one closet to another but I wanted to be stealth as much as possible.  I said, "I don't have to go around broadcasting to the world I'm trans to avoid feeling like I'm in another closet.  I just want to live my life as a normal woman because that's how I feel inside." 

It's taken me a while to dissect the whole going back into hiding thing.  I go out and do everyday things.  I see myself no different than anyone else.  If someone clocks me, so what?  It doesn't bother me.  But I will admit when I get checked out as a woman I feel pretty good.  So I obviously enjoy being stealth. 

I know I've still got a long way to go and that this is a learning process.  So many things about the way I think have changed and I'm sure this will continue.  I still believe we need good representatives out there and I believe those who pass the best are the ones who will represent us the best.  We live in a very visual society and when our physical presence doesn't shock or offend it makes it easier to get people to listen to us and take us seriously. 

I'm extremely grateful for those who put their faces out in public for the benefit of everyone else but I am not at that point... yet.  And I may never be.  But it's important that, regardless of what level we choose, each and every one of us represent trans people in the best way we can, whether we are in stealth or not.

Julie

[Melissa]

Let them try...

Ah, heh. *makes note never to follow Kim into an alley*

LOL, ditto.  Some of us are not quite as strong as Kim.

Melissa

[Sheila]

Julie,
   I like what you say. I'm more out than most, but this is what I want to do. Why I say that you should not be totally stealth is that you should not deny your passed. Most people have done a lot and should be recognized for their accomplishments and not try to hide them because it might bring up the past. We all have history and to hide it back in the closet is just as bad as hiding what I call my transsexual days. You are right in that we don't need to hang a sign on our backside saying we were once a male/female, but if it should come up in certain areas, different for some, then we shouldn't deny our past. Live it and own it. We are who we are. Live for the future, but don't forget the past.
Love Sheila