Living In Stealth - Does It Hurt Us?

[JessicaH]

Personally, I like when people necro a GOOD older post. IF there is relevent dialogue, why start a new thread and rehash the exact same discussion?

[Rock_chick]

Threadromancy is a crime in the eyes of the flying spagetti monster.

[FairyGirl]

it was likely resurrected because SarahB posted a link to it in a new thread on basically the same issue. The discussion should be continued there rather than here:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,96760.0.html

[Sarah B]

Hi Fariygirl

No I did not resurrect this thread 'Carolinejeo' did.  I just happened to notice it when it came up as a recent post.  You are right we should continue the discussion here

Warm regards
Sarah B

[Julie Marie]

Unfortunately it appears the newer thread got out of hand because I found it locked.  If I recall correctly, this thread was locked at some point too. 

Simple logic tells me if every TG, that is every person who crosses the gender boundary because it is part of who they are, came out as TG the world would at first be shocked but eventually would realize that, like all irrational fears, there was really nothing to be afraid of.  And I believe if every TG fought for equal rights, we'd have them a hell of a lot sooner.

The problem is there can be a steep personal price to pay for coming out.  I know this personally.

For decades I lived in fear of anyone finding out I was TG.  Since transition, most of the people who knew me before now treat me differently.  I also lost a job I loved.  But inside, the battle that had raged for over 50 years has ended. 

I don't walk around with a neon sign over my head that says I'm TG but I also don't live in fear of anyone finding out.  And if I'm asked to stand before a crowd and speak on behalf of supporting equal rights for TGs I will gladly do it. 

Overall, my life is better now than it was before.  I guess you can't have it all but I'm okay with that.

[Mariposa]

I more or less feel the same way Julie does. Once I had transitioned, I immediately went "stealth" and immersed myself with a group of friends that had absolutely no idea I was trans, and then eventually I ended up dating a guy as well that had no idea. And eventually it started to eat away at me until I could no longer take it, because I hate lying to the people I care about most, so I came out to my boyfriend at that time and even then I couldn't tell him the whole truth, but he was okay with what I did tell him.

Today, I am a lot more comfortable with who I am and I embrace that part of me because I don't think I would have been the same person if I were born a natal female. Granted I wouldn't hold a huge sign proclaiming my TG status, however if I were asked by say a close friend then I wouldn't deny it.  However, for anybody else, I don't feel the need to owe anyone any kind of explanation.

I am me and that's that.

[Karynm8621]

I can't say I'm stealth but im no longer carrying the trans torch either. The point of transition for me was to get the monkey off my back and just "be" I don't go out of my way to hide the old me. Heck if you came. My home there's pictures all over the place of the old me.

I think to some degree it can hurt the community as a whole but to me, my well being is what's important. That doesn't mean if someone dealing with gender issues needs help that I wouldn't help them, I always will. I just refuse to be labeled for the rest of my life.

[Dana Lane]

I don't think a birth defect should automatically enroll you in an activist role. I think people who want to live stealth should be able to do so. If someone who is planning to go stealth needs my help, I will help as much as I can and when they vanish, I wish them luck. However, there still remains a fact that it does give us less numbers and strength as a whole. While I wish they could help I would never want to make them feel guilty about it. Go live your life!

[tekla]

Expression is often the first step on the road to identity.

[Karynm8621]

Living in stealth (not disclosing your past) is a protection against society's issue with expression. Extreme violence is a terrible price to pay.

It's further complicated where identity with a gender means your not truly stealth when your living your identity.

Its a Gordian knot.

Not totally, there just becomes a point where you just want to live life. I've always believed in pay it forward and I've done my best to do that but at the end of the day I just want to be Karyn and it sometimes just becomes tiresome to be linked to being trans. In fact at this point I'm not sure I consider myself trans anymore. I'm just me.

I get the idea that in order to get protections for the masses we need to be united. But I also believe to more normal we live our lives the better chance we have of shedding those old stereotypes, so it becomes a double edged sword.

Up here we have a support group that would cost me $40 to attend. They want post ops to attend to support the younger newbies at their different stages. It's hard for me to substantiate spending $40 on a session just to support someone else's transition. That $40 can go towards my drawn out electrolysis. I think to some degree this is another reason more post ops are stealth as well. Maybe of these therapists dropped those fees for people like me we would want to help out even more ..just a thought.

Sorry of this bounces around, I just have different areas of stealth popping into my head as a type..lol

[FairyGirl]

Expression is often the first step on the road to identity.

And it has to be.  There is no other way.  I started HRT and living full-time on the same day.  My only shield was that at that point, I really didn't care what anyone else thought; I wasn't doing it for them.  As time went on and I became more comfortable in the expression of my true identity,  there came a point where I was only ever seen as female, even when dressed in boy clothes with no makeup.  After that milestone as it were, I was never misgendered.  More time passed; "RLE" just became "RL", and I thrived on it.

I've always readily admitted my past when it was necessary I do so, for instance immigrating to Australia there was no way to hide it because of all the past information that's required.  But I no longer volunteer that information to anyone who doesn't need to know (my choice who that is), and that doesn't make it some kind of nonsense "lie of omission"- heck I don't go around telling everyone my credit card numbers either.  A wise friend once told me, "You never have to lie, but you don't have to tell everything you know either."

No single one of us is going to change the world; we work together to do it in little bits and pieces, and I feel I've done my part along the way.  I know I've helped others on their journey because they've told me so.  Don't forget there's also this: If we define community as those men and women who share our similar life circumstances as it regards being transsexual, then we all need personal help too.  Go look in the post-op forum- lots of questions and answers in there, a lot of help given and received.  Helping the community isn't always about getting in the general public's face and telling everything you know.

People still use "retard" as a derogatory term;  people still use the "n" word;  people still say "->-bleeped-<-got" and, "That's so gay."  Realistically, though there is progress there will always be those who are different and those who will see that difference as an excuse to hate and discriminate.  Some politicians elevate it to a fine art form.  I'd rather spend my efforts on helping others like me on their journey to completeness.  I am grateful to those others who blaze the trail for us, but we also need support in the ranks.  I'll live my happy little functionally stealth life and look for opportunities to help where I can, and if that isn't good enough for some then sorry, but it's the best I have to offer.

[melissa42013]

I had originally planned to go stealth after transition and walk away from my Facebook account, etc and just bring along the friends that I really wanted to. I viewed it like the change from highschool to college, moving to a new state, or changing jobs. You bring some people but leave others.

More recently though I have been giving more thought to just leaving it open and if people want to accept me great, if not then fine. I recently decided to shut down one of my businesses where I am highly visible just because I can't stand people seeing me move through the transition process. It is a very masculine focused business and I really don't need to hear the "guys" try to put me back in the box for my hair, etc. People are already starting to not recognize me or ask me what is wrong. LOL I tell them weight loss.

In the area where I live there are no TG resources so I have had to find them all. I have though that I could create a simple web page for the area listing the resources I've found and online resources like susans. I find it hard to believe that in a metro area with 800,000 people there are only two TG's (including me). The local LGBT group doesn't even know what the T stands for IMO.

So I really don't know how I can help at this point other than trying to support others on the same path as me but some day if I need to go talk to the Governor if it pertains to a TG bill I will be more than happy to. I don't plan to wear a "MTF TG" t-shirt everywhere but I also don't plan to hide.

[Ann Onymous]

I don't think a birth defect should automatically enroll you in an activist role.

And that point is lost on some.  It is no different than the gay or lesbian who goes about their daily life without the general public knowing what goes on behind closed doors.  Just because you fit a demographic does not mean one has to be vocal in matters pertaining to that demographic.   

It is entirely encumbent upon the individual to decide whether they wish to own a label and then from there, make a decision what they do with the label.  Personally, I chose to own the lesbian label and distanced myself from the trans label, even moreso when it began being changed to encompass all things gender.   

However, there still remains a fact that it does give us less numbers and strength as a whole. While I wish they could help I would never want to make them feel guilty about it. Go live your life!

ANY potentially political issues affecting a demographic is going to be under-reported in some manner.  Further, as with anything else, even if, as an example, you and I have something in common, your goal may not be my goal.  That produces an inherently fractured lobby.  Such is life.   

[Julie Marie]

There was a documentary on TV the other day about the gay struggle for acceptance.  One person said something to the fact that being nice is fine but accomplishes little.  You have to get tough.  Then they discussed the Stonewall riots.  And the gay world became visible and united.

It's been over 40 years and there's still repression, but progress has been made.  The picture painted in the documentary about gay life back then was pretty much the same as it is for trans life today, lots of hiding and and fear of coming out and a totally unaccepting and ignorant society. 

How many discriminated-against groups didn't have to resort to extreme measures to achieve recognition and get on the path to equal rights?  Society rarely drops its prejudice when you ask them nicely.

[Dana Lane]

One person said something to the fact that being nice is fine but accomplishes little.  You have to get tough..

This is so true! While I can't talk about current details, my battle with U of Penn about removal of exclusion of triadic care for transsexual faculty and staff was relentless. A higher up here told me that being more civil is how things are usually done here but then I told her "Sometimes you need to chain yourself to the Whitehouse fence". And I didn't slow down but only got more aggressive. A lot of others helped, greatly. Soon after, my battle was over, and we will be basking in victory.

[FairyGirl]

Maybe because the older threads are buried under pages of newer posts and most people won't search using Simple Machines rather buggy search feature to find a years old post that may or may not exactly address a specific aspect of some issue.  Besides, who wants to read through pages of old post to see if something has already been said?  Easier to just start a new one.  It's also about a fresh take on problems that unfortunately seem to be perpetual.

Donald Trump, now THERE'S goofy.

[BunnyBee]

Also thread necro is creepy...

[FairyGirl]

Also thread necro is creepy...

totally...

[Julie Marie]

Also thread necro is creepy...

Well, first you have to determine if the thread is actually dead before you can apply necromancy to it.  In this world if something is dead, it stays dead, unless it's the son of a Jewish carpenter. 

Now, if something is actually dead and it has been brought back from the dead, you can see it two ways: 1) Its resurrection is the result of someone dabbling in the Black Arts and is therefore evil (Night of the Living Dead kind of stuff) or 2) A special mode of divination has been invoked by God and therefore is good (Jesus comes to mind).

So a thread that has been said to have been necro'd may not really have been dead, only perceived to be dead.  Kind of like someone who has a near death experience; they were pronounced dead but the doctors were wrong.  In that case it was never dead and it was never necro'd so it's not creepy, just sleepy.

Or, there are evil forces at work and a practitioner of the Black Arts (a witch or warlock?) has brought the dead back to life - probably for some evil purpose and that sometimes means flesh eating ZOMBIES!

Or, there are good forces at work and the thread has come back from the dead and through it you can find eternal salvation and life ever after.

Not sure which one I'm leaning towards with this thread.  The first is kinda boring but the most logical choice.  The second... well zombies, witches and warlocks sounds like fun.  But the third, geez, we could be talking second coming stuff, maybe even a whole new religion.  Tough choice.