Living In Stealth - Does It Hurt Us?

[Rachael]

call me selfsish, but as soon as i can go stealth, im going without a backward glance.... This has been torturous enough without carrying it arround forever... i dont want to be treated as trans if i dont have to, and i dont concider it another closet... because im being myself. id just not be talking about my past, a fairly normal thing...
Ill continue my roll as T officer for my students union, but without telling everyone from the rooftops 'Im a transexual, come mock me!'

Weather more TSs going stealth is 'harming' T visiblility, i dont know
but i consider stealth as a right...
and ill have it.

[katia]

call me selfsish, but as soon as i can go stealth, im going without a backward glance.... This has been torturous enough without carrying it arround forever.

i hear ya.  some ts women i know pass so well that no one treats them as trans

http://www.donnarose.com/Stealth.htm

[cindianna_jones]

Katia, thanks for the reference to the article.  It was very well written and points out all of the issues.  I don't think that any of us go totally stealth.  There's always some part of our life that is known to someone.

For everyone here who can go stealth and be happy... I wish you the very best... for you have earned it.  You owe nothing to anyone except yourself.  Do it.

Chin up

Cindi

[TheBattler]

Thanks you very much Katia for the link.

I am find the whole website just perfect.

Alice

[passiflora]

Non-disclosed, is the only way I could live, although I don't really like the word stealth, becasue it seems to me to connotate somesort of deception, or hiding, and for me keeping my history and and backstory private is not deceptive, lying, or hiding anything. In my own opion, living non-disclosed, assimilated, and un-explained is more than just physcial passing, its a total way of life, its about tending to your history, your past, as much as it is about living your future, and it can get very complicated and oftentimes very lonley. Its more than about being "undected" in one situation or another. I have oftentimes heard so many times when I TS will say something like, oh we went the other night and I was totally stealth, or I am stealth with that person, but not them, or I am mostly stealth. Just in my own opion, these are just situational undetected moments, and this is really quite diffrent than living assimilated and un-disclosed.

Living forward to never look back, takes a lot of courage and determination, and it also takes a lot of sacrifice, and it does'nt only depend on ones abilty to pass perfectly physically. It takes the willigness, and wherewereathall to leave it all behind, even family in some cases. It also takes the mental dispostion, that this is who you are and what you are and you have always been this person, it was you, the little girl that learned to ride a bike. You have to re-socialze yourself to the point that you can mold and blend yourself into any everday female expereince, but at the same time ther shoudl never be any cause to lie about something. You have to learn language and semantics, and beable to manage your life and your narrative, without getting yourself caught up in a web of lies and deception, becuase this would not be a very good life, and in my own opion this would cause a great deal of mental anguish. 

Its all about living a woman's life totally and completly, without explanation, and really anyone is capable of doing this regardless of physicality. But for many its not possible, regardless of wheter they "pass" perfectly, or barley get by. Becuase many are so rooted and connected to their family and freinds that it would be emotionally impossible, and possibly devestating to break those ties, and this is okay, there is nothing wrong with living a compartmentalized "stealth" life either.

For some living this type of "stealth" works for them, for some the only way is assimilated, non-disclosed, and un-explained, and these are two diffrent ways to live, with diffrent characteristics, and diffrent consquences.

-pass-

[Bracha]

Keep in mind that stealth/out is not a binary choice.  You can find a balance in between.  I am living some portions of my life stealth and some out.

I totally agree.  I'm probably 70-80% stealth.  If I could be 100% stealth without always feeling like I needed to look over my shoulder, I would be.  I was for a number of years, but it made me paranoid.  "Do you think they know?"  Getting to a point where I'm mostly stealth, but it's not life-shattering if someone finds out, was a lot healthier for me.

Look, I didn't grow up feeling that I should be a transsexual.  I'm not male-to-transsexual, I'm male-to-female.  If I thought that transitioning was going to result in me having a transsexual role in the world instead of a female one, I would never would have transitioned.  And I'd probably be dead.

Fear is bad.  And trying to be 100% stealth, and placing so much importance in people never knowing... that's bad.  But I should have been born a girl, and I want to spend my life coming as close to what I should have had as I can.  As far as responsibility for new girls... yeah, when I went to the TS women's support group in NY way back when, it was nice to see that there were normal women there.  And after I'd had surgery and stopped going, when I got a call from a friend asking me to take a new girl to a meeting, I was happy to do it.  And I've been to a few meetings here where I live as well.  But you can't live for other people, you know?  You have to live for yourself.

[BrandiOK]

  I avoided this thread for quite awhile now because it brought up a painful memory that I normally push way down deep.  It's not an advocation of either stealth or not stealth simply a story about a friend.

  Several years ago I frequented a "TG" chat room.  I made several wonderful friends online from around the world.  One day I got an IM from someone in the chat room I had never seen before,who said she lived in OK.  It was one of those things, I assumed, where somebody assumes because you are from the same city you are automatically friends.  When I looked at her profile I saw her pic and was a bit confused at first.  She was obviously a GG, a beautiful one at that,  and had no TG references in the profile to make me think any different.

  She explained to me that she was actually TS and had been living stealth for many years.  I remember thinking she would have a pretty difficult time convincing others she was TS.  She said that she saw we lived in the same city and asked if I knew of any TS support groups where she could attend.  She said that she had reached a point in her life that she felt she needed to give back.  I told her of the support group I was going to at the time and she thanked me.

  We chatted many more times before the next support meeting rolled around.  I was truly amazed by her and we quickly became friends.  The evening of the meeting I arrived and walked in.  I gave a quick glance around the room to see who was there (it changed so often it was difficult to keep up) and sat down. It wasn't until I sat and looked directly across the table that I recognized her.  I assumed, on my initial glance, she was one of the occasional SO's that come with thier partners.  Our eyes locked immediately and she smiled as if to say "Hi, remember me?".  The meeting progressed quickly so I didn't have a chance to really talk to her one on one.  She quickly became the focus of the group answering questions about transition, the difficulties she experienced and how she coped with them. 

  Finally at the end of the meeting we had a chance to talk privately.  She explained that living in stealth had been the best thing for her initially because she needed to build a foundation for her life.  Something that GG's have built throughout their lives.  When she had that foundation built she felt comfortable enough to step off of it.  I understood what she meant as I had thought about the same basic principle many, many times. 

  We continued our friendship for the next year or so.  I remember at Thanksgiving she invited me to dinner at her house.  She had invited several of the girls and guys from the group whose families had turned them away.  I declined as I had "family" to cook for at home and wouldn't be able to get away.  She would occasionally take in a 'stray' girl who had been put out by her family and had no where to live.  She would feed them, clothe them and help them find jobs and places to live.  I know money was very tight for her and her boyfriend but that didn't seem to bother her. 

  Not long after Thanksgiving, I believe, I recieved a phone call saying that she had been hospitalized with an inoperable brain aneurism.  Another friend who visited said she looked really bad and was hooked up to all kinds of machines.  I couldn't bring myself to see her like that and I put off visiting right then...I regret my decision every day because two days later she died.

  Now, as I said before, this isn't a pro or con post for stealth just an example of one womans life and the difference she made.

[Melissa]

  Not long after Thanksgiving, I believe, I recieved a phone call saying that she had been hospitalized with an inoperable brain aneurism.  Another friend who visited said she looked really bad and was hooked up to all kinds of machines.  I couldn't bring myself to see her like that and I put off visiting right then...I regret my decision every day because two days later she died.

  Now, as I said before, this isn't a pro or con post for stealth just an example of one womans life and the difference she made.

Oh wow.  I'm sorry Brandi. *Hugs*  That's awful.  I'm glad she was able to provide some goodness into the world before that happened.

Melissa

[Sheila]

Pass,
  I like the terms you used. Un-disclosed is how I guess I would present myself. I'm not hiding, but not telling either. If it is important enough, I will talk about it to people. I don't introduce myself as Sheila the Transsexual. For one thing I'm not a TS anymore, I'm a whole woman. I do like the terms though.
Sheila

[passiflora]

I told her at the point that I decided to begin transition.  I was moving to another city (for obvious reasons) and I needed to explain why before I did.  I had a copy of "True Selves" that I told her I would give her but I didn't have it with me that day.  I told her I would send it to her if she wanted it...I think asked what it was about and then changed the subject.  My sister told me at one point that my mom had watched several shows on transsexuals on TV and was "trying" to understand but <long pause> it was going to take time (translation: She doesn't believe any of the information she's seen so far.)

  Skip forward five years (maybe longer...I can't even remember anymore) and no phone calls, letters, Emails or even invitations to family holiday get togethers which were basically mandatory before I came out.  Even my sisters, who still talked to me after coming out to them, eventually ended all contact with me.  I think my mom finally got to them and they turned to the "dark" side (sarcastically funny).  Maybe when they realized that this wasn't something that was going to go away they gave up.  I don't know...I can only guess. 

  Before I left I gave them my new address, phone number and made sure they had my Email and IM accounts.  I knew early on my relationship with my mom was doomed as I wrote before (she's froma a conservative Catholic family) but I never thought my sisters would abandon me like they did.  My father died when I was 13 and my step father is an ultra conservative mean natured person so if it was discussed with him I'm sure that made matters worse.

  One of my morning rituals is to go through the obituaries in thier area to make sure they are all still alive.  I'm fairly certain that if there was a death in the family I wouldn't be informed.  The embaressement of having me potentially show up for a family funeral would be too much for them to handle I'm sure.

BrandiOk, I hope that you do not mind that I took this post of yours from another thread, but it was a wonderful example of something even though it is very sad and actually made me cry. I know your seperation from your family was not voluntary, but I just wanted to use your words and your story here as an example of the sacrfice that is undertaken by some that are searching for a total "stealth" life, Although I prefer un-diclosed, assimilated, un-explained. But oftentimes, this is what it takes, total sepration, as if one were in a witness protection program, or was in some sort of self induced amnesia.

To forget about our family and freinds, and other loved ones is a hard thing to do, to sperate ourselves so far from a previous history and begin our narrative from a new point with either zero, or a very edited backstory takes a lot of courage and self understanding, and I would say most are not prepared nor even want to imagine, such a path.

I had actually started out wanting to do that very thing. My plan was to leave my family and everyone behind and start my new life thousands of miles away, but I could not go through with it. I now live 100% assimilated, and un-explained in my public life, but I do have my family around me, and even though they are 100% accepting and commited to supporting my new life and my narrative, there can still sometimes be thin ice to navigate around when it comes to remebering my history, when I bring starngers around. For this reason, I am living "compartmentalized Stealth", and for many advocates and beleivers of assimilation, and non-disclosure, this is a compromise.

-pass-   

I'm not hiding, but not telling either. If it is important enough, I will talk about it to people. I don't introduce myself as Sheila the Transsexual.

I agree shelia. I figure that if I am in a situation or involved with someone, and my backstory, or my history is of a possible life threating or life changing action, that could directly effect my current life, or its future, than I may be obligated to disclose, but thats the only time.

-pass-

[Melissa]

Well, I feel completely free to gab about my past.  I use gender neutral terms and can talk about my past as freely as I choose.  That way I don't feel like I'm hiding anything, yet I'm not giving myself away.  I never did much in the way of sports except a little basketball...but I'm on the tall side for a woman and plenty of girls played around that time.  I was in cubscouts and boyscouts.  I might say I did the scout thing or something and let them think girlscouts.  If I mention my wife that I'm divorcing, I say my ex.  If I talk about when I was little, I say "when I was a kid".  I did go into the army briefly, but there were plenty of women there.  So, I am able to talk about my past without putting any gender context to it.  I guess my way of thinking is, if somebody does confront me and ask, I can say I never lied.

Melissa

[Maud]

My current take on things:


I think the legwork with stealthness needs to be done before it happens, a while ago I asked all my friends to remove any and everything related to my transness from day to day conversation and that if I wanted to talk about things I'd do so on a one on one basis, no one messes up pronouns anymore my birthname is all but forgotten and they all accept me for who I am, the fact that they know has little to no bearing on my day to day life so as I make more and more friends things are more than anything smooth, talking about my past nothing really stands out I can talk about it all pretty openly other than one story I used to like to tell which an important part of which happened in the boys loos.


New friends I make I just don't tell unless there's good reason to, I've told a couple but they're people I got intimate with and both had the same reaction of surprise "what, really? I didn't notice", I've only been sired three times since going FT once in a shoe shop I asked for someones attention and as they were turning they said "yes sir" as they haddn't seen me yet then they corrected themselves once on the phone to microsoft and once by a really bitchy receptionist when I was getting my name changed.

I know I can go stealth and I will as it's convenient in my life, people I get intimate with I will tell but otherwise there's little point, I don't think of myself as trans on a day to day basis it only pops up when I get intimate with someone and I'm reminded of my limits and when I'm posting here or annother forum where i'm fairly out at or chatting on IRC.

It's definitely a deal with it as it happens type thing.

[Julie Marie]

Really, stealth is the best way to go if you can pull it off.  Many can't.  I see myself wanting to be stealth because quite honestly I don't want to deal with people's ignorance.  So many people believe what they want and nothing you say or do will change their mind.  So rather than bang my head against a brick wall, I'll opt for stealth.

But if we all came out at once and joined together as a force (especially as a voter's group) we'd get the respect we deserve much more quickly.  People only need to see us as commonplace and not freaks of nature.  In time.

Julie

[Melissa]

But if we all came out at once and joined together as a force (especially as a voter's group) we'd get the respect we deserve much more quickly.  People only need to see us as commonplace and not freaks of nature.  In time.

Yep, very true, but it's not going to happen.  Time and winning small battles are really the only way we'll ever achieve this.  For every person who transitions on the job, there will be hundreds of people that get to know a trans person.  We will win eventually.

Melissa

[passiflora]

Quote from: Julie Marie on Today at 11:26:06 AM
But if we all came out at once and joined together as a force (especially as a voter's group) we'd get the respect we deserve much more quickly.  People only need to see us as commonplace and not freaks of nature.  In time.

Yep, very true, but it's not going to happen.  Time and winning small battles are really the only way we'll ever achieve this.  For every person who transitions on the job, there will be hundreds of people that get to know a trans person.  We will win eventually.

Melissa

This is just my own opion and thoughts, but would'nt this be defeating the purpose. I mean at first we are talking about "stealth", but then we are talking about being reconized and respected as being transwoman. If we are transitioned and living assimilated without disclosure, living women's lives as just females, than why would we need, or why would there be a need for acceptance and respect as trans women in our public lives..If we are living undected and and normal un-explained lives within our community, why would we need to have special acceptance as something that we are trying to get away from.

Just in my own case, I transitioned so that I could just live a normal everday female life, and thats the life I live. It does'nt mean that I don't care about or that I don't want to help other transwomen acheive the same goal, or at least I can show them that it is possible, it just means that I am not looking for any special place as a "transwoman". I am girl, a female just like any other and thats the way I live my life, without explanation and special request.

-pass-   

[Melissa]

True enough pass.  I don't limit myself to only trans-friendly places.  I think the ones who will benefit primarily from this are those who do not pass well and have to be out anyways.  What I was referring to was that if you look male and are transitioning to female, people *are* going to see you change.  It doesn't happen overnight.  It's nice to transition in an accepting environment that is conducive to your success.  Once you can fully pass as a female, there really isn't as much of a need for this anymore, except it IS one less worry when you know people won't violently attack you if they ever caught wind of your past.

Melissa

[passiflora]

I agree melissa 

smiles,
-pass-

[Julie Marie]

If we are transitioned and living assimilated without disclosure, living women's lives as just females, than why would we need, or why would there be a need for acceptance and respect as trans women in our public lives..If we are living undected and and normal un-explained lives within our community, why would we need to have special acceptance as something that we are trying to get away from.

-pass-   

Not everyone can pass.  If all of us could pass after transitioning this entire thread would be moot.  While I don't expect everyone to feel they have to support the entire community, I just can't turn my back on those who have no hope of ever passing.  My heart goes out to them.  Many will never choose to transition because they feel there's no hope for them.  They will live out their lives sad, depressed or even suicidal. 

Society has to change for them to have hope.  And society will only change when they understand we are just ordinary people with an extraordinary challenge.  If all of us who can pass lived totally in stealth society may never come to accept the rest of us because they will only see a man in drag.  We live in a visual society and the first impression we make is usually made before we even have a chance to speak.

We see talk shows where the crowd oohs and aahs in amazement when someone who passes completely says they were born male.  But when a masculine MTF walks out on stage the crowd is often seen snickering and laughing.  Society has to understand there's no difference in the feelings inside the passable transwoman than there is inside the non-passable transwoman, except the sadness of never passing.

While it's great so many here can totally pass, it wouldn't hurt to imagine what your life would be like if you had no hope of passing.  How would you feel then?

Julie

[passiflora]

While it's great so many here can totally pass, it wouldn't hurt to imagine what your life would be like if you had no hope of passing.  How would you feel then?

Hi Julie, I understand this, and I am thankful for my good fortunes. I was just commenting mainily on the act of "stealth" itself. I agree, we need to help everyone and I am all for that. And an open minded accepting society is much better than a closed mean one. I know I sometimes take things for granted and forget stuff, but I wish good fortunes for everyone, and will do all I can to help and support in a sort of behind the scenes way.

-pass-

[Ricki]

This is a good post julie and a clip of your most recent statement is appreciated by me anyway...

Not everyone can pass.  If all of us could pass after transitioning this entire thread would be moot.  While I don't expect everyone to feel they have to support the entire community, I just can't turn my back on those who have no hope of ever passing.  My heart goes out to them.  Many will never choose to transition because they feel there's no hope for them.  They will live out their lives sad, depressed or even suicidal. 

Damn... maybe a less advanced form of stealth in itself?
Consider the butterfly?
Luv
Ricki