Should We Scrap the Word "Transgender"?

[Cindy]

Well, I'll buy in.

I don't mind using transgender to describe me. I usually have to qualify it by saying, Oh BTW I'm not gay. My straight friends are still caught in a paradox and haven't gone on the offensive to analyse that comment.

What other adjective could we use? And what power do have to enforce it? I'm not sure where the term "Gay" for a homosexual male came from. Presumably San Fransico? Where the Gay community had and presumably still do, have an enormous social, political and economic local pressure. It was by this, that they, as a group could sway society; at least locally. I'm pretty sure that Prince Charming dancing down the street of Redneck city still got pulped by saying he was Gay rather than homosexual. What difference would a name change make to being transgenderd? Possibly a conference of psychologists or psychiatrists would have a royal debate. But I doubt it.

We are a group of people with problems that most do not have; that most do not care about; who do not have economic clout. If you can't get your government, in any country, to pay for the disabled to have support structure, for free condoms to prevent the spread of HIV, for women's shelters to prevent abuse and to protect chidren for abuse, to name a few; who should give a sh*t about us, no matter what we call ourselves?

Sorry for the rant. Sometimes being human hurts


Cindy

[Miniar]

My point is that we are Transitioning our gender, not our sexuality.

I'm not.
I'm transitioning my Sex, not sexuality, and not gender.
My gender is the same before and after, my sexuality is the same before and after. It's my sex I'm changing.

[june bug]

I'm not.
I'm transitioning my Sex, not sexuality, and not gender.
My gender is the same before and after, my sexuality is the same before and after. It's my sex I'm changing.

Good point... but not all trans people alter their body to fit their identified gender.  The only thing that really ultimately is changing is their own perception of themselves and in turn other people's perceptions of who they are.

Trans-perception if you will.

[tekla]

I think 'gay' - which had always had a slightly immoral character to it, whorehouses were once upon a time referred to as 'gay houses' - really came from the Liberace lawsuits, where he sued a Brit paper (and won) when they called him a 'fruit' I think.  So reporters, not wanting to be sued, and yet still wanting to note that for some reason (like there was ever a scintilla of doubt about it) started to refer to Lee as 'gay' because that word has that association, and it was part of Lee's theme song, so he couldn't sue them over it.   

[ICatchDinosaurs]

No.
It gets on my nerves how they're constantly scrapping terms and coming up with new ones.
First they're hermaphrodites, but now we have to call them intersexuals..
First they're dwarfs, but now we have to call them little people.
The list goes on.
If it's not broke, don't fix it.
The term is fine.

[Marie731]

This article seriously discusses terminology that we use within our community, I believe it is of considerable merit.

I agree, it's just that... well you know the issues we're dancing around here to avoid a flame war.

It's a handy term during a casual conversation as a catch-all for people with any sort of gender issues.

But it's a political disaster when used as a catch-all for legal issues.

[Alyssa M.]

I'm not.
I'm transitioning my Sex, not sexuality, and not gender.
My gender is the same before and after, my sexuality is the same before and after. It's my sex I'm changing.

That depends on what you mean by gender. I use it to refer to at least two different things: my deep internal sense of identification with other women that is stronger than my sense of identification with people in general; or how people perceive my public presentation of that.

The second one, which is at heart a social construction, is certainly changing. The first one, my internal sense of identification, is only changing in that it is becoming deeper and more settled, but not fundamentally changing at all.

If I talk to anyone about it at all (IRL, anyway), it's usually in the context of the changing of my social role; the physical aspects aren't their business, and the part about gender as a fundamental part of identity tends to be a bit too involved for most people to care much about, much less understand.

[Northern Jane]

As an old-timer, I do NOT like the term "transgender" - it had nothing to do with me and never did. It was my physical sex that I changed - my  gender has always been the same, so transsexual is the only term I accept as applied to me.

[Alyssa M.]

Words, words, words.

50 years ago, gay people weren't gay, and they certainly wouldn't call themselves queer. Any word referring to us folk, whatever you want to call us, is a neologism, and transgender is a slightly newer neologism than transsexual. They both have historical baggage, and they both imply a particular construction of experiences that deviate from societal norms.

Since we're all on this forum, we're all transgender. Frankly, I hate using that word to describe a person without making it a past participle (in analogy with gendered), but that's Susan's convention: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html Frankly, I could quibble about those definitions all day, but I appreciate the idea of not quibbling about them, since that so often goes badly.

[june bug]

Since we're all on this forum, we're all transgender.

Not keen to such assumptive generalizations, thank-you-very-much.

I personally don't mind using the term "trans" but I definitely have a problem using the word "transgender" in identifying myself (although sometimes I do it cringingly out of habit).

So yeah.  Hey.  It might have become the "standard" for most, but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

On this topic, I have a real problem with the terms "GRS" and "SRS" as well.  I'd be most comfortable calling it "genital reconstructive surgery", which I think is about as accurate as you can get for what is really going on.... regardless of medical "sex" classifications, or psychological "gender" identity.

[Alyssa M.]

I was making no assumptions except that you joined this particular forum. We're all transgender here (except S.O.'s) by the definitions of this forum because this forum defines transgender a particular way, maybe not the way you would, and not the way I would (as I said, I have plenty of quibbles with those definitions), but there it stands.

Whatever the history of the words, through Harry Benjamin and Virginia Prince and all sorts of nasty politics, on this site transsexual refers to people who transition medically, or want to, or have decided that medical transition isn't worth the trouble because the results won't be good enough; and transsexual people are a subset of transgender people.

That doesn't necessarily agree with how either you or I use those words outside this forum, but this isn't your forum or mine; it's Susan's forum. If you have a problem with Susan's definitions, take it up with Susan.

[june bug]

@ Alyssa.

I understand the point you are making, but I also am sure (though I could be wrong) that Susan respects the fact that I personally do not identify as "transgender" even though I am posting on these forums.

[tekla]

OK, if you're not 'transgender' what need is there for any protection of 'transgender' persons?

And if such protections exist, should they be applied to you?

[Marie731]

And if such protections exist, should they be applied to you?

No.

I'm female, not transgender.

[tekla]

So why all the fuss about EDNA, since all these people would not be covered under it?  Maybe they should remove the trans from it, keep it gay, pass it and be done with it.

[june bug]

So why all the fuss about EDNA, since all these people would not be covered under it?  Maybe they should remove the trans from it, keep it gay, pass it and be done with it.

Because people with such genital / hormonal deformities are often discriminated against, regardless if they identify as male, female, transsexual, transgender, or androgyne, and (unfortunately for some of us who object to the semantics) "transgender" is the blanket term for such things.

I've said this once, and I'll say it again, the one thing most, what I simply call, "trans" people I know share is a life-long hormonal imbalance that pushed their body into growth they don't feel comfortable with, and put them in a world of hurt in dealing with the social / psychological repercussions of such deformities.

To ignore the fact that we live in a world where trans people, regardless of their self-identity, are discriminated against (I myself have experienced multiple occurrences of such sad truths in this world), and to say we should throw it away because the government / science decides to use a label some of us are uncomfortable with is just... silly.

The medicine might taste bad, but if it helps, it helps.

[Marie731]

if people have the audacity to call me something I am not...

They already are.

You're a member of the LBGT community, according to them. You're a member of the transgender community, according to them. You're (maybe) about to get special protections as a transgendered person via ENDA, like it or not.

[tekla]

Well, remember, since the ERA never passed, you might not have any special rights as a woman.

[Tammy Hope]

To the world & to society, I'm female in every sense of the word.  Plain and simple.  Society put its stamp of approval on my life a LONG time ago.

Bully for you. Shall we schedule a parade?

I'm beginning to see why everyone says these threads always end in hostility.

For my part, the issue is NOT what "you call me" - you can call me anything you like, I'm not bound by the words you use

(the general generic "you" - i.e. "anyone")

when I entered this discussion it was to speak of what words I would like to use or see use to best communicate to those who haven't lived this experience just what is going on.

Do I know my gender has always been female and hasn't "transed" anything?

Of course.

That and a buck might get me a cup of coffee. Communication isn't about what is going on between my ears, it's about how I can convey an idea to a person who doesn't understand it.

Now, it can certainly be argued that "transsexual" does the job better than "transgender" or the reverse - that's a perfectly valid discussion and one that should easily be discussable without much emotion.

Discussing how we can best communicate with others shouldn't be a loaded discussion.

On the other hand, if this was a discussion of "my label for me is the only right label for me and you best HEED!" then, well, I have no interest in that nonsense.

labels  - all of them - are the problem, not the solution. (and yes, that includes "male" and "female" because that just invites disagreement about whether one is legitimately entitled to claim the label).


Post Merge: January 06, 2010, 02:07:12 AM

Because people with such genital / hormonal deformities are often discriminated against, regardless if they identify as male, female, transsexual, transgender, or androgyne, and (unfortunately for some of us who object to the semantics) "transgender" is the blanket term for such things.

I've said this once, and I'll say it again, the one thing most, what I simply call, "trans" people I know share is a life-long hormonal imbalance that pushed their body into growth they don't feel comfortable with, and put them in a world of hurt in dealing with the social / psychological repercussions of such deformities.

To ignore the fact that we live in a world where trans people, regardless of their self-identity, are discriminated against (I myself have experienced multiple occurrences of such sad truths in this world), and to say we should throw it away because the government / science decides to use a label some of us are uncomfortable with is just... silly.

The medicine might taste bad, but if it helps, it helps.

I think you missed tekla's point entirely.

Or I did.

If I understood the point, I find myself in agreement with it.

[Alyssa M.]

Well, remember, since the ERA never passed, you might not have any special rights as a woman.

That is actually a bit ironical, considering the arguments used against it.