the holy grail

[lauren3332]

Here http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin

There now everyone can go and see.  There is something not right about her and she creeps me out.  I hope not to run into people like her much. 

[Naturally Blonde]

Here http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin

There now everyone can go and see.  There is something not right about her and she creeps me out.  I hope not to run into people like her much.

She didn't creep me out at all, she looked and sounded very natural and I thought she was ok.

[lauren3332]

some stuff she says is cool, other crap, not so much.  She doesn't sound creepy in itself.  What I mean is, she is creepy and scary if she thinks that nothing applies to her and that other should be the ones to do it.  Yeah she gives all these warnings about how she has different views.  She wants to be considered a "genetic" woman and shouldn't have to be accepted.  That is creepy because, there is acceptance in everything for one no matter what it is about.  Second, you can't claim to totally hate yourself through and through for 20+ years and then just blend into society while ignoring the pain of those in a similar situation as yourself because you don't want to have to "defend" yourself anymore.  She herself is not creepy but her thoughts are.   

[Wendy1974]

Lauren her thoughts are very common. Not everyone wants to be a activist, not everyone wants to be involved in the community for the rest of their lives. Many people want to get through this and then move on and just be plain ol' women. I know I do. I am having my srs in May and I'll be moving on after that. I may or may not continue to read and post here, that remains to be seen, but I have already moved on from the community in real life. The whole point of transitioning is so that you can be yourself. If you identify as a transsexual then awesome, good for you, there is a happy home for you in the GLBT community. For other people it's part of the journey but it' not the destination so they are only visiting and that's fine too. No one is duty bound to remain in the community.

[Marie731]

For other people it's part of the journey but it' not the destination so they are only visiting and that's fine too. No one is duty bound to remain in the community.

That's exactly it. And it should be noted that many people DO help others while we're transitioning, but there often comes a time when you "graduate" and move out into the wider world, leaving the teaching to the next batch of student/teachers.

[tekla]

There was no "transgender movement", or perhaps it was still in its infancy?... I don't know. 

Sure there was, you just didn't see it.  SF, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Ann Arbor and a bunch of other cities had already passed the pioneering protection ordinances, support groups, perhaps not on the net (though there were several sites), were meeting, and at least in the larger places there were a lot of people out and about.  I started going to ETVC, the forerunner to TGSF, back in '81. 

[Naturally Blonde]

Lauren her thoughts are very common. Not everyone wants to be a activist, not everyone wants to be involved in the community for the rest of their lives. Many people want to get through this and then move on and just be plain ol' women. I know I do. I am having my srs in May and I'll be moving on after that. I may or may not continue to read and post here, that remains to be seen, but I have already moved on from the community in real life. The whole point of transitioning is so that you can be yourself. If you identify as a transsexual then awesome, good for you, there is a happy home for you in the GLBT community. For other people it's part of the journey but it' not the destination so they are only visiting and that's fine too. No one is duty bound to remain in the community.

I totally agree Wendy. We don't all want to set up a 'this is my transition' website and bask in the TG community activistivism forever!

[lauren3332]

No one ever said you had to stick around in the "community" per se, but for soneone to walk off and pretend nothing happened, that is a little weird.  No one ever said it was a mission.  All I am saying is if I am trucking a long and I know that someone could use my help because I know that I have been through the exact same thing at one point, then yeah I am going to do something about.  What she has stated in some of her stuff is that she shouldn't have to be accepted and she only helps those who strictly identify with exactly how she is.  That is kind of lame.  The "I have got mine and that is all that matters is a stupid attitude."  If the holy grail is just to use things until you get yours, then why is this forum so litterd with people? 

I can tell that a lot of people here have reached a good way into transition probably have everything done except SRS.  I know I am making a strong statement about people on here.  Obviously a lot of people here don't think that, which is a good thing.  I mean sure your past the bulk of it all but you care still and that is also a good thing.  What I was trying to ask in a long drawn out way was, is the holy grail of being transgendered just to transition and pretend that you were "normal" the entire time?  Is this really the goal?  I am not saying to get stuck in the trans world.  I am asking, can you really turn your back when you see someone in a similar situation you were in at one point?  Can you really say, I have got mine so who cares?  That is what this person is saying in a round about way but knowing that people might come against her, she words things to make it sound as if she isn't doing that. 

[tekla]

To be fair, most of the persons I know who are involved in TG activism, are also involved in all sorts of other activist activities.  But in the US activism is a very different deal than it is in other places.

[Marie731]

is the holy grail of being transgendered just to transition and pretend that you were "normal" the entire time?  Is this really the goal?

It just kinda happens I think. The normalcy of daily life starts to crowd out the memories and feelings of "being a TS," IF you let it, if you live an ordinary life and avoid the "community."

The people in my life (who "know") just don't want to hear about it. THEY are the ones who want to pretend it never happened. No one minds me being female, they just mind being reminded that it wasn't always (physically) the case. People in general embrace the gender binary, so if you can fit into their expectations for your sex, people will actually expect you to STAY there and keep quiet.

[Dorothy]

is the holy grail of being transgendered just to transition and pretend that you were "normal" the entire time?  Is this really the goal?

Maybe for her it is. Maybe for some people it is. What is it to you? For me, the holy grail of being a woman born with the wrong bits was to transition my body to be the woman I've always been on the inside. I was never delusional.  I realise I can never be a genetic female but this isn't about chromosomes, is it? If this was about chromosomes, then why do anything at all?  It's about gender & aligning your body to fit your mind, it's about your essence of being male or female. My chromosomes mean crap to me if my brain is screaming that I'm a girl. 

I am not saying to get stuck in the trans world.  I am asking, can you really turn your back when you see someone in a similar situation you were in at one point?  Can you really say, I have got mine so who cares?

Well, if peeps are here sharing what they know about their own transition, isn't that a form of support?  Or do they need to be out & proud to be counted as 'supporters'.

My goal after GRS was to live life as stealthy as possible without the burden of being trans & I'm doing it.  I couldn't be happier.  I spent 25 years of my life as trans.  I wasted 25 years as trans when I could've been a happy girl.  I deserve to live a normal life as a woman. You all know what I mean by 'normal' so don't make me explain it to you.  I respect those peeps that fight for equal rights but I'm not one of them.  Maybe it's selfish on my part but it's time to take care of me now.  I don't understand all this hullabaloo.  Stealth & being out are choices you make. 

Whilst it's true that some peeps want to be transgender activists after GRS, most of us just want to get on with our lives & leave the past behind not dwell on it & live our realities as the women we are. 

I swear to God that it's only on TG 'support' forums where you hear that kind of tripe.  "no you can never be a normal woman, you've got no uterus or your DNA is male, your vagina isn't real".  No wonder peeps want to be gone from places like this & live in stealth.  At least outside from here, nobody questions my being a woman & I don't have to deal with bigots.

she words things to make it sound as if she isn't doing that. 

She does? Do you know her?  are you her? How do you know?  I apologise but I think it's kinda presumptious on your part to be speaking for her when she isn't here to defend herself.

[Tammy Hope]

I don't know how this relates to the topic but for me, the Holy Grail is to have significant stretches of time when I forget i ever had a male presentation at all.

I'm reminded of another thread in which someone said that pretty quickly post-op they forgot what it was like to have the parts dangling - I'd love to be able to forget - unless i had specific reason to think about it - that I was ever "male"

that I would perceive MYSELF as a GG.

If I could do that, I'llbet that as I moved through the world on a daily basis i wouldn't ever notice if someone were clocking me and reacting to me differently unless it was quite overt.

[Naturally Blonde]

To be fair, most of the persons I know who are involved in TG activism, are also involved in all sorts of other activist activities.  But in the US activism is a very different deal than it is in other places.

In the U.K I notice that the one's mostly heavily involved in activism are the one's who through no fault of their own would only be seen or excepted as transsexual.

On the other hand I have a friend who has cut off all ties with the transsexual community including close friends. I think she needed to do this as she is a teacher and doesn't want to be known as transsexual because it could severely affect her job. I think once you have successfully transitioned as she has you do not want to keep digging up your past or broadcasting it to everyone the fact that you once changed gender.

[Julie Marie]

In the U.K I notice that the one's mostly heavily involved in activism are the one's who through no fault of their own would only be seen or excepted as transsexual.

Maybe it's because the only ones you notice ARE the ones who have difficulty passing and therefore are the most noticeable.

Amanda Simpson, Donna Rose, Leslie Townsend, Christine McGinn and others are all very passable trans women who are out.  The most passable are the ones who can really make a difference in dispelling the negative stigma.  I applaud those who don't "need" to come out but do so they can help improve life for all trans people. 

In the category of non-passable trans activists,  no names come to mind at the moment, which I find interesting

(to all) As far as this holy grail thing, if that term has anything to do with a futile search, why waste your time?  Why not spend those energies making a difference?

[Marie731]

(to all) As far as this holy grail thing, if that term has anything to do with a futile search, why waste your time?

I don't really have a choice. The "bug" (as someone called it ) which drives me is to "have been born female." Futile or not, that's my motivation, that's what guides my efforts.

And I'm actually constantly surprised at how close we can get to that ideal, at least in practical, day-to-day terms. Even with records, at this point I was born female, went to high school as a girl, went to colleges as a young woman, worked as a woman...

Earlier last year, I finally joined FaceBook and tracked down and "friended" pretty much everyone I've ever known from childhood through high school. Probably 60+ people at this point. And obviously, I had to tell them what I've done (briefly, one sentence, didn't make a big deal of it) or they wouldn't know who I was.

And the neat thing is that I now feel like I've kinda re-written my past, since all those people know me as a female now. Many of them were still living in the area, and different groups of us all host party get-togethers  every few weekends now. And no, I'm not a "token transsexual" or anything. We NEVER talk about it. It's just a footnote I mentioned.

But again, since I've reconnected with my past friends as a female now, I kinda remember my past more and more that way too. I'm still debating the idea of starting over somewhere new to be able to pretend I was born female, but I'm actually making a lot of progress in just rewriting my current life as it is... was.... whatever, lol.

[Carlita]

Here http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin

There now everyone can go and see.  There is something not right about her and she creeps me out.  I hope not to run into people like her much.

Well, to me she just looked and sounded like any young girl yakking away at a video  camera, making as much or as little sense as anyone else. If she didn't recognise how much she owes to previous generations of TS men and women, well, what's new? Many young women haven't a clue how much they owe to suffragettes or feminists. Old WWII veterans used to tell long-haired, dope-smoking Sixties kids, 'We fought a war for people like you.' The kids don't care. They're not bothered by the past. They're interested in the future.

If I had any negative reaction I guess it was a sort of melancholy envy. My life might have been very different if I had been that age at a time when awareness of gender issues and medical techniques like FFS were the way they are today. But that's not this girl's fault. She's going to have an entire adult life living as a 100% passable woman. For anyone who cares about the community, that in itself is a kind of triumph ...

[Naturally Blonde]

Well, to me she just looked and sounded like any young girl yakking away at a video  camera, making as much or as little sense as anyone else. If she didn't recognise how much she owes to previous generations of TS men and women, well, what's new? Many young women haven't a clue how much they owe to suffragettes or feminists. Old WWII veterans used to tell long-haired, dope-smoking Sixties kids, 'We fought a war for people like you.' The kids don't care. They're not bothered by the past. They're interested in the future.

If I had any negative reaction I guess it was a sort of melancholy envy. My life might have been very different if I had been that age at a time when awareness of gender issues and medical techniques like FFS were the way they are today. But that's not this girl's fault. She's going to have an entire adult life living as a 100% passable woman. For anyone who cares about the community, that in itself is a kind of triumph ...

Great post Carlita!

[Marie731]

I consider this sort of implied "debt" to the "transgender community" to be ludicrous & kind of offensive at the same time.  I know..weird.., but that's how I feel.

I'm reminded of a post in another thread:

I had my own personal experience with... [a] cult some while ago- it's basically you're "in" and "cool" like the rest of the sheep or else you're out. There is great pressure to conform and garner the approval... to make sure you're fighting the good fight. That kind of social pressure can cause people to make regrettable decisions in order to "fit in".

[Natasha]

In the category of non-passable trans activists,  no names come to mind at the moment, which I find interesting

i'll give you a few names:  mara kiesling, autumn sandeen, monica helms, antonia d'orsay, lena dahlstrom & many others that post at pam's house blend & bilerico.

is stu rassmusen an activist? the transgender mayor? anyway stu doesn't pass either.

[Janet_Girl]

But passable or not, are they happy?  And isn't that the only real meaning to this whole thing.



Janet