Phys / Psych Trigger

[no_id]

Well, hello there!

To those who don't know me; I used to wander these boards and then disappeared for over a year - Hello.
To those who remember me; yes I know I disappeared for over a year. - Cheers.

Now, back on topic:
While I browsed to the AG boards I noticed a varied userbase and decided to launch this poll to sample the origin of AG identity awareness. I want to see in who's case (and how many) the first idea of possible Androgyny popped up in relation to GID, and in who's case (and how many) the identity spark relates to a sense of psychologically not fitting in (with...).

It's a bit of an abstract concept and requires some digging. I also wouldn't be surprised if in the case of the majority the P's were interwined (hence the 3rd option) or if my pondering was determined 'meh' by a (popular) option 4.

However, this board can use another poll (no matter how vague), and of course you may feel free to launch 'I really don't get it' replies.  Cheers.

Poll results as of 25/02/2010
Physical: I felt my physical representation was not on par with my sense of self. - 0 (0%)
Psychological: I felt binary concepts did not apply to my sense of self. - 4 (30.8%)
Psycholigcal / Physical (please elaborate). - 8 (61.5%)
Other (please elaborate). - 1 (7.7%)
Total Members Voted: 13

Poll results as of 06/04/2010
Physical: I felt my physical representation was not on par with my sense of self. - 2 (11.1%)
Psychological: I felt binary concepts did not apply to my sense of self. - 7 (38.9%)
Psycholigcal / Physical (please elaborate). - 8 (44.4%)
Other (please elaborate). - 1 (5.6%)
Total Members Voted: 18
*Note: no changes to previous conclusion psychological > physical.

[Pica Pica]

Ello me darlin' how's things - i got meself and album a while ago, was playing it once when a housemate said, 'you do like some rubbish don't you?' - so a compliment there.

I said both...

Though I think on more reflection after deleting an answer that the trigger was actually sociological and that led to both.

I started with exploring my feminine self on line and enjoying the different ways I was listened to and my views interpreted when the other person in the conversation believed me to be female. This led to a wish to be female physically, an unhappiness in my male body and a feeling of incongruence psychologically.

However, trying to put myself in the female end of things, especially the transfemale type made things much more stressful psychologically especially.

Androgyne then came as a release psychologically - and helped me understand and accept better this sack of spuds I call a body.

So - yeah, my trigger was sociological.

[tekla]

Since Pica² is our resident Andro philosopher king/queen/princess I'll have to go with what he/she/they said.

I'm in the boat of 'why the hell do I have to choose one or the other?  Why can't I be both?"

[Pica Pica]

Well, while we're doing compliments, why can't I express myself so clearly, forthrightly and with so few words?

[tekla]

You want me to tell you the special (like the Olympics) tekla formula for pissing people off by the third word, which is still miles before the first period?  OK.  Tell the truth.

Them Jammies are rockin' cool, mon.

[Pica Pica]

Which one? I always have hundreds of options buzzing around and it just depends which one I catch at the time.

[tekla]

Me too, but just pick one, it does not seem to matter which truth it is, just that it's true.

[Pica Pica]

Time to steal from Johnson

"However we may labour for our own deception, truth, though unwelcome, will sometimes intrude upon the mind."
Idler #80

If you are going to steal, steal from the best.

Telling the truth is an unwelcome intrusion and it's very rude to do it 

[tekla]

If you are going to steal, steal from the best.

Damn Skippy!

Telling the truth is an unwelcome intrusion and it's very rude to do it
So I'm told (constantly).

[Pica Pica]

Well as Samuel Johnson's mate said as he was dying,
"It is well when a man comes to die he has nothing heavier on his conscience than having been a little rough in conversation."

(You'll never guess who I've been reading about this month."

[tekla]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Shakespeare?

[no_id]

Ello me darlin' how's things

Neat and charming as always

Little feedback on my own choice (psychological);
Middle school when I felt I didn't fit into the squad and exclaimed that just because I appeared female my peers and teachers had no right to conclude I was. I had a follower too. Should have pushed it futher and started my own cult, but alas.
Quickly figured the gents corner wasn't my piece of cake either and was tagged as 'just [insert name]'.
And enough, I'm getting bored myself.

Cheers for the replies folk (including the quotes)  

[Nicky]

Oh common, get a room pica and tekla 

I've always desired to be like the woman I saw, to have what they had, a female body, or at least a body that fit female clothing, and the freedom to act like they did. I never felt like I was a boy, I had a rejection of myself as male. Yet after hunting inside for a long time I have never found anything that said "I am woman". I actually prefer the term non-binary gender these days.

[Kinkly]

The way I read this poll was is it because of body issues or emotional & social issues that led to you being androgyne?
I new my body was wrong but not how for as long as I remember & I always felt different to other boys growing up without knowing why. so I said both
did i get the question right I'm a bit confused at this moment ? :S

[no_id]

The way I read this poll was is it because of body issues or emotional & social issues that led to you being androgyne?
I new my body was wrong but not how for as long as I remember & I always felt different to other boys growing up without knowing why. so I said both
did i get the question right I'm a bit confused at this moment ? :S

That's a really nice and simple way to put what I meant. Unfortunately communicating my thoughts and theories was never on my talent list. Thanks for clearing that one up (for others). 

[Fenrir]

I was pretty much outside the norm behaviour-wise anyway, but I didn't see that as necessarily a problem (I was an antisocial child  ) until I started growing up more, which was around the same point that the physical changes were happening anyway.
I suppose it was really the physical dysphoria that made me think "OK, something's not right here" and made me go and research things (always my natural reaction to situations  ), if that's what you mean. The people in my school were sexists anyway, so I thought being frustrated at being female/wanting to be more like a male was normal. Once I left that school it all clicked, and here I am today.

[Kendall]

Great question No_ID. I put both. But its not that simple. I have been uncomfortable being male for a really long time. Being raised male for me included being really cut off from the body I wore. I did not think of my body enough to decide it was not me. My awareness of being androgynous came from comparing my interests and values to those of the men I knew. And seeing how I did not fit. Later I started adding up that I liked my long hair and did not mind being called "mam." I noticed I identify with female protagonists and only read books that feature such. So I took the not quite scientific COGIATI and believed my score. So, maybe psychologically first, and then realizing the physical aspects as well.

great quote - gave me a needed laugh

Telling the truth is an unwelcome intrusion and it's very rude to do it

[Eva Marie]

I'm an "other" 

I bopped along for over 40 years pretty much blissfully unaware of exactly "why" I didn't quite fit in. I did well enough to get by socially, got married, had kids, did well at work, but there was that certain "something" that other people had, and that I did not. I didn't like socializing with men, and seemed to get along better with the women at gatherings. My work patterns were very un-male like, I tended to gather consensus and weigh all sides when coming to a decision.

Once I took the COGATTI test (I know, I know  ) it got me thinking, and then the pieces fell into place, especially my past and all of the trouble I had experienced. I had both male and female thinking patterns!

So I joined susan's and found other kindred spirits here 

[no_id]

Great question No_ID.

Thank-you. The poll came to mind when I read over 'GID in Children' and 'GID' in general. So far it seems the majority leans towards physical & psycholigcal or psychological. I remember from a past thread how a null gender/neuter/ag with GID expressed that their ideal body would be that of a child (pre-puberty/pre-hormonally influenced). Based on that I expected a  (physical) 'trigger' near puberty a.k.a. 'That's not supposed to be there, but neither is that, so[...]', but thus far only Nicky and Fenrir's replies seem most compatible with that assumption. So it's suprising, but at the same time; not really.

[Nicky]

I'm not sure body was a trigger as such. I just felt a wrongness about the world from an early age. I would look around and everyone seemed to know what they were doing, how to act, where to go. I was lost in a sea of gender rules, wondering why I was not allowed to wear the girls uniform.

Puberty for me was a slow thing, I was small, never had a big growth spurt, just kind of creped up. I was always rather dark and hairy though. I had a bad case of vagina envy but it was wrapped up in this powerful sexual urge of my teens. I felt a jelousy that women could feel more than me, experience more pleasure. I just felt like masturbating all the time and the release never lasted long.  I was depressed much of the time.
I didn't want to compete with the rest of the boys, I didn't want to play their games, or join in their sports. I went to an all boys school and it was misery but I could not figure out why,

I toyed with the idea that I could be gay but rejected that, I liked women too much.
Finally I went to University in another town on another island. I was free. I started growing my hair long, had my ears pierced, dressed in alternate clothing - stuff that was more art than gender. Decided I was a crossdresser, but that never really fit either. I knew I wanted to be girly but could never find it in me to say I was a girl.

I think I was 25 when I came accross androgynes on the internets. The internet was only just becoming a social revolution at that stage. It clicked. I held onto that thought, it fit, but how could someone be not male or female? Finally I chopped down internal walls and androgyne was my home. Since then I toyed with the idea that I was a woman, and have discovered I am very much at the female end of things in terms of my desires.

Currently I like the Non-binary label/gender queer. After struggling with dysphoria and depression for so long I did something about it and saw a counsellor at the end of 08. I'm now out of my box and the sunshine sure feels good!

I was not intending to write a summary of my journey but I just kept on typing, it feels good to lay it down.


Thinking about it I don't think there was a trigger for me at all as I think it implies you felt normal before an event. I've never felt 'normal'. It just took me a long time to figure out why I was not 'normal'.