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erections and plumbing: enjoy it, tolerate it, or hate it?

Started by disdwarf, January 22, 2010, 09:58:39 PM

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disdwarf

hi, new girl on the block here just registered yesterday... I have a question!

I know many MTF transsexuals find their erections gross. They don't like having erections. Is it possible for an MTF transsexual to enjoy and want erections, and under what circumstances does this feeling happen?

I've read about transsexuals who had full SRS surgery and yet before their transition they had children or had a very active autoerotic life (masturbation) even though they hated it.

But I wonder whether this is something only primary transsexuals feel, and what happens with secondary transsexuals. A primary transsexual is one who feels "I'm a girl" from a very young age (5-6?) and never develops a fake male persona to "act cis/straight". A secondary transsexual, on the other hand, creates a fake male persona and even fools herself thinking she's male, she might have difficulties with maintaining relationships or get depressed for no reason, but otherwise she is capable of "passing as a male" and even gets married, has children etc until someday in her 20s or 30s she understands she's transsexual but might not seek to transition until later (I've heard of people transitioning in their 50s, 60s, or 70s!).

What I wonder about is, how do secondary transsexuals feel about their erections and sex life? (if there's any, many are autoerotic, celibate or asexual) Do they actually enjoy having erections or using their plumbing before they realize they're transsexual? What happens after their realization? How gradual is the change?

And what happens with those who have HRT but not SRS? Do they actually enjoy their plumbing after they start living as women, or  they just tolerate it?
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Laura Nin

It was a question of using what I had at the time.  I could imagine I was a female while having sex.  Now, so close to surgery, there is  no action there and I am glad, it got more and more repulsive as time went on.

Every person is different.
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Renate

Watch out! Don't step in the quagmire! Talking about "primary" and "secondary" transsexuals will spin this topic off into outer space.

There are people who transitioned early and those who transitioned later.
The exact dividing point between early and late is unclear.
Moreover, it ignores many of the reasons why people don't/can't transition earlier.
Just because many people have sat by the sidelines for years does not necessarily mean that they created a false persona.
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HelenW

"Primary" and "secondary" are antiquated terms in the TS community.  Most trans people don't like them because they set up an artificial hierarchy.  I believe Harry Benjamin coined the terms but they are not used except by the exclusionary "women born transsexual" clique.

As far as using the equipment one was born with is concerned, some of us used it (I have 2 sons) and some of us didn't.  Go figure!  It certainly doesn't make me a fake.

Let me take this opportunity to remind people that disdwarf is new here and may not yet be caught up with our mores and norms so be kind.  Let's not let this thread get out of hand with personal attacks and such.  Thanks!

hugs & smiles
Emelye
FKA: Emelye

Pronouns: she/her

My rarely updated blog: http://emelyes-kitchen.blogspot.com

Southwestern New York trans support: http://www.southerntiertrans.org/
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disdwarf

Quote from: Renate on January 22, 2010, 10:06:41 PM
Talking about "primary" and "secondary" transsexuals will spin this topic off into outer space.

There are people who transitioned early and those who transitioned later.

I read some medical articles (by a non-trans doctor) talking about primary and secondary TS and fake personas... I agree it sounds a bit strange to call someone "secondary" or "having a fake persona" just because they couldn't transition early, and yep I think it's much better to talk about "early transitioners" and "late transitioners". I didn't use the word secondary to imply "not a true transsexual" or something like that, I'm still new to TG/TS-related forums and I still try to pick up the correct vocabulary to use, as lots of my reading has been from medicalized articles etc but I agree with you the vocabulary used in the medical community sometimes just doesn't sound right.

so, to rephrase the question, I wonder how early and late transitioners feel about their plumbing, how these two groups differ in their feelings, how their feelings changed after their decision to transition, etc.
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Janet_Girl

Engaging gravity drive.  It is will spin out of control, I fear.

As to the question.  I consider myself a primary transsexual, by your definition.  But I did live as a male and have four children, by two ex wives.  I have been married three times.  And I hated to have an intimate relationship as a male.  I would envision myself as a woman and my partner as a man.  I also began transition two years ago, and I am going to be 56 next birthday.

I am thankful for Spiro, that rid me of the nuisance.  And now with the twins gone, I am get closer to the true form.

There is or was a term in the gay community called a "beard".  Where a gay man married a woman as a cover for being gay.
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lilacwoman

Quote from: disdwarf on January 22, 2010, 09:58:39 PM
hi, new girl on the block here just registered yesterday... I have a question!

What none of the shrinks and experts care to get into is the fact that MtF penis are alive and healthy and every few days the testicles have accummulated a lot of sperm and seminal fluid that has to be emptied...either manually or in wet dream (hated that expression all my life!)
Shrinks know perfectly well that 'NORMAL' men get very sore/uncomfortable/tender if they don't empty the system but somehow all the shrinks who rule our lives think that if we do something to stop the penis irritation we are 'not really transsexual' but just something in the DSM.
Doctors take things 'it was itching' out of vaginas all the time.
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disdwarf

not only it has to be emptied, but not emptying it can lead to severe health complications perhaps even prostate cancer, a very male-ish disease... and surely it would be very bad for an MTF to die from a male-ish disease, so there are health reasons to empty it, somehow!
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spacial

Setting aside the rather crude annalogies, sex is one of the most basic instincts of all mammals. On a biological level it causes a number of effects which are helathy and beneficial. Not least to the circulation. It also causes a feeling of temporary euphoria.

I use the equipment that I have. I really wish I had better equipment. I don't.

Though I've been married for almost 30 years, to an amazing and patient woman, I can't do the sex thing with her.

I've never cheated on my wife, and never will. But prior to being married I did have a period when I had sexual relations with men. Though never the promiscuious stereotype. I gave myself to them, or in a few instances, was taken against my will. I didn't ever reciplicate the same way.
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Kendall

I like your question Disdwarf. As a late "maybe-I-am-not-the-gender-that-matches-my-body-now-what-do-I-do-trans-something" I can tell you one person's experience. I enjoy my equipment without being emotionally attached to it the way some men are. I wish I could change it, and maybe a miracle will happen and I'll have the resources, but it may not be possible. I do not hate it, it just does not feel like me.

What I do hate is having to act like a male in bed with both of the women I married. Or the rest of the time for that matter. Until recently I was not clear about why I was unhappy. I grew up poor and abused so I did not know being unhappy was not inevitable. I thought - felt really -  that it was just the way it was. Now I have a better idea but no solutions yet. I do not want to be sexual the way they wanted me to be. I do not want to be dominant and orgasm focused. I do not think all men are but many are, and some women want that. I do not think I am explaining this well: I do not clearly understand myself. It has to do with the male "personna" I have put on all of my life to survive. I do not want to be that surface person anymore, and I am just discovering what I have been covering all this time.

Ironically a politically incorrect and uncomfortable sexual behavior led me to a piece of self-discovery. I have been divorced for years, and not ready to start a relationship when I do not know who I am. So I have used free internet porn. Not completely satisfactory but better than nothing. I look for loving, happy scenes. I recently got really depressed realizing that at sixty I am never going to look as good as any of the young "actresses." Following that line of awareness, I realized I was fantasizing being the girl in those scenes. (Just for the record, most of the "girl" things I do have nothing to do with sex or arousal, they just give me comfort - like shaving my body hair feels right).

I do not hate my body, I just do not identify with it. I may never be in a body that feels like me, so I make use of what I've got - like a coat that does not fit but is all that is available right now.
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deviousxen

I absolutely effing despise what I have. I was tolerant for a while...

That or I kidded myself again.


I want a relationship and public life that work for once....
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FairyGirl

Quote from: lilacwoman on January 23, 2010, 04:28:59 AM
What none of the shrinks and experts care to get into is the fact that MtF penis are alive and healthy and every few days the testicles have accummulated a lot of sperm and seminal fluid that has to be emptied...either manually or in wet dream (hated that expression all my life!)
Shrinks know perfectly well that 'NORMAL' men get very sore/uncomfortable/tender if they don't empty the system but somehow all the shrinks who rule our lives think that if we do something to stop the penis irritation we are 'not really transsexual' but just something in the DSM.
Doctors take things 'it was itching' out of vaginas all the time.

maybe that's true pre-HRT but a few months on a healthy dose of spiro pretty much dries that business up. Without testosterone the testicles atrophy and sperm production drops to zero, effectively rendering us sterile anyway. That's why it's sometimes referred to as "chemical castration". There may be a very small amount of seminal fluid from the prostate but the body can also just absorb that bit as the prostate atrophies as well. Neither erection nor ejaculation are required to enjoy sex or achieve orgasm.

I've said before you don't have to hate it, but if you are planning on SRS it's probably a good idea to begin pretty much getting over the whole "I enjoy my penis" thing, period. If you plan to remain non-op then that isn't an issue, but hormones will still definitely rearrange stuff down there for you.
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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FairyGirl

Quote from: Tasha Elizabeth on January 24, 2010, 12:54:21 AM
however, i have heard from more than one surgeon the importance of staying orgasmic pre-op; so one has a better chance of being orgasmic post op.....

Yes that's true and my surgeon (Dr. McGinn) told me that as well. I reached the point of being ready to completely give them up until I figured out the plumbing isn't really relevant to actually having them. It just becomes different is all.
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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lilacwoman

as we have other sources of testosterone than our testicles to keep our seminal vesicles filling to some degree I feel sure that the orgasmic wetness of th post-ops is due to the seminal vesicles emptying.

re not using it I was glad the estrogen stopped all my stuff working - right up to the time I had a weird pain just after being constipated for a couple of days and then suddenly peeing out an enormous mess of blood and mush...doctors verdict was 'congested and infected seminal vesiscles and please to empty them regularly Miss Lilac...'

just makes me cry to have to do it...very much a quickie too.
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Sandy

I recognize disdwarf is new and I recognize the point of her question without any malice.  The question was asked in an honest way and rephrased in most appropriate language.  Thank you.

To answer your question, I was a late bloomer and did not transition until I was in my 50's.  My physician at the time, bless him, called me "54 years young".

I have two adult daughters and two wonderful grandchildren.

I never really "hated" my genitalia until very late in my pre-op life.  But it did work, and shot live ammunition.  But throughout my life I felt that it was ugly and I tucked for most of my adult life.  I felt, and still feel, that having your major hormone and reproductive glands on the outside of the body was a very poor design.  I felt women were much more streamlined with everything inside the body where it belongs.

My sex life, both single and with partners was satisfying.  After all an orgasm is a physical process designed to stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain.  Much like other sensations it is automatic.  I never enjoyed having the erection, but the orgasm was pleasurable.  My surgeon, Dr McGinn, was quite specific about the need for pre-op orgasms to aid the brain in establishing the new nerve stimulations post-op.  Her statement was that SRS did not cure sexual dysfunction.

I was in denial about my transsexual nature for most of my life.  I felt that I was a cross-dresser, a man with an outrageous hobby.  Growing up, I knew I wasn't a transsexual, because I saw that transsexuals became hookers, strippers and drug addicts.  This was much, much, before the internet.  Your thumbnail description about my condition, as being a faux-male was dead on for me.

When came out of denial and I did realize that I was a woman with a transsexual condition, it hit me like a thunderbolt.  It was an earthquake.  I knew in that instant that my life as it was up to that point was over.  I went through the five stages of grief.  It was as powerful as being told that I had terminal cancer.

I transitioned relatively quickly.  See my blog "Sandy's Transition" for a blow by blow description.

BTW: Welcome to the forum, disdwarf.  Feel free to ask any question you like, that is why we are here.  And feel free to PM me if you have anything else you might want to discuss.

-Sandy


cnat spel
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
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SusanKG

Quote from: Tasha Elizabeth on January 24, 2010, 12:54:21 AM
however, i have heard from more than one surgeon the importance of staying orgasmic pre-op; so one has a better chance of being orgasmic post op.....

Hmmm...well, that's another line item for my transition timetable. Actually, periodic line items. Some of those line items are a real b***h; remaining orgasmic has not been one of them. Check and double check.  ::) I've been unable to have an erection for 10 or 12 years, and I do not miss it, except to provide pleasure for my wife. I'm still very orgasmic, so we make do thanks to modern toys.

By the way, primary and secondary transgender? Give me a break. Do a head count of all transgendered people, and you will get as many different steps on the scale. Making my own definition: If you're in the middle of physical transition, you're a primary, every thing else is pre-transition so perhaps secondary, maybe so pre transition that no significent steps ever occur. There's too much labeling in all aspects of life; let'e not go overboard here with it.

SusanKG
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Chrissty

I used to get really "hung-up" on this, until I found about about 3 things... ::)


OK TMI warning here folks....but.... :icon_nervious:



1) gg's get erections too, and it's a well documented fact that the "erectile" type tissue surrounds the vagina as well as the clitoris.

2) There is no reason why a pre-op "male" body can not experience a female style orgasm without ejaculation, with a little re-training and practice.

3) A lot of gg's need as much determination and practice (masturbation) as "males" to develop their ability to have a female orgasm, and in most cases GCS MtF's have a higher orgasm rate than the cisgendered gg population.


Sooo... if you believe me, then the it's possible to find a little comfort during those long months of transition, or in my case, while you continue to try to sort the details of your life out... 8)

...and if you don't ...that's OK by me too, I just hope it doesn't cause too much distress, while you wait for a solution... :icon_bunch:

:icon_hug:

Chrissty
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mtfbuckeye

How about I'm ambivalent towards it? It's what I have for now, and it feels pleasureable to use it in sexual situations. At the same time, I never feel completely blissful, and I find myself wishing I was experiencing what my (usually female) partner was: intense, sometimes multiple orgasms.

Of the many reasons I want to go on HRT, among them are the end of huge, inexplicable morning wood, and no longer having my mind dominated by my biologically male sex drive.
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deviousxen

Quote from: Chrissty on January 24, 2010, 03:04:55 PM
I used to get really "hung-up" on this, until I found about about 3 things... ::)


OK TMI warning here folks....but.... :icon_nervious:



1) gg's get erections too, and it's a well documented fact that the "erectile" type tissue surrounds the vagina as well as the clitoris.

2) There is no reason why a pre-op "male" body can not experience a female style orgasm without ejaculation, with a little re-training and practice.

3) A lot of gg's need as much determination and practice (masturbation) as "males" to develop their ability to have a female orgasm, and in most cases GCS MtF's have a higher orgasm rate than the cisgendered gg population.


Sooo... if you believe me, then the it's possible to find a little comfort during those long months of transition, or in my case, while you continue to try to sort the details of your life out... 8)

...and if you don't ...that's OK by me too, I just hope it doesn't cause too much distress, while you wait for a solution... :icon_bunch:

:icon_hug:

Chrissty

Erectile tissue and a thing that sticks out like that are two different things. They have totally different purposes. Erectile tissue in a female may, for all we know, just make the area more resilient to trauma via penetration. Maybe. A theory?


But ... I'm not one to enjoy it. I mean if you take a person who likes swimming in a pool, and feels ok doing so, and dropped them in the ocean which they're no fan of... I mean they might still be ok with water itself... I mean you drink it right?

But the ocean would scare the hell out of him.
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pamshaw

Fortunately Hrt has caused mine to shrink and become inoperative which is just fine with me because it was never meant to be there. I will have an orci soon and later SRS. I can't wait to get rid of this mistake. Woman have vaginas not penises and I will never miss mine.

Pam
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