Where are you at in your Androgyne/Genderqueer/Intergender/Bigender Experience

[GQPAT]

Hey all,

This is only my second post on here....I made one back in September and have been lurking ever since!  I guess I'm still in the discovery phase as well....well discovery/confusion because I guess I'm still unsure about whether I'm an androgyne or TS!  I have been coming out to everyone in my circle(s) of friends/aquaintances (sp?), my classmates, my profs.  I mean I am lucky in the sense that I'm young(ish)...23....and am in a VERY progressive women's studies program that has a trans-woman as the head of our department and offers courses on transsexual/transgender issues (such as cultural production).  So the environment I'm in is SUPER supportive....I've just been talking with as many people as I can about this stuff as prepartion for the talk with my parents (oooooooh boy)!!

But yeah....definitely still confused....you see the idea of hormones has been on my mind for about 3 years now and I've decided that it's something I'm starting in April of next year (when school is done....I'm a pretty stressed out student, as is)!!  I'm so lucky being under-25 because I get to work with a youth medical clinic, which is a much more open/inclusive environment (in my mind) than a TS program run out of a hospital setting.  Basically I'm at a point in my life where my gender issues and the idea of "hormones" have been on my mind for WAAAAAAY too long that I can't put it off.  I plan on taking spiro/injections because I have a pretty long history of alcohol consumption (yes I know I'm only 23 but still) and I just would like to bypass as much of the liver as possible.  But basically, one of three scenarios is going to happen when I start hormones:

a) I'll say "wow....this is so NOT what I expected....I don't like this...I'm comfortable in the skin I have (biologically)" (this option is realistically the least likely of all three but still it is a possibility)
OR
b) I'll say "wow...I'm content with this....I'm happy with a completely inter-gendered/androgynous body"
OR
c) I'll say "wow...I REALLY like this and want to continue on to SRS"

Either way....hormones or not....I do plan on ridding my chest/stomach of most(read: all) of it's body hair because I don't really mind my facial hair THAT much...but the idea of having chest(breast?) hair and breasts is not attractive to me at all!

I guess I'm at a point where it's not about the clothing....cause I can get all dressed up to the nines "en femme" (which I do oh so rarely)....and some people are content like that....but when the clothes come off I still feel incomplete!

I have been experimenting my hair-style/clothing-style for a little while now and its been fun but it's not enough!  I currently have a super cute Riot Grrrl haircut (ie: mid-nineties Kathleen-Hannah-bikini kill style) and have found ways of including more skirts/feminine cut t-shirts/tight(er) clothing into my wardrobe, which usually garners some nice compliments!

Anyway...back to the issues of confusion....I guess what is most confusing for me is the adoption of a new name/new pronouns!  I mean, as it is, I have a pretty androgynous name (being Pat) but lately I've become more and more annoyed with hearing people refer to me by male pronouns.  I think what I'm going to decide is a switch of pronouns....and if/when I feel comfortable enough....the adoption of my new name (I have been toying with the idea of Kathleen (kate for short))!  Honestly,  Kathleen Hannah is one of my idols in life....so it would be my (personal) hommage to her...plus kate just sounds so cute!

You know I could probably post this on the transsexual board just as well but here it is!

Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers: Pat

[Laurry]

Hey Pat/Kate...Welcome back you lurker you...LOL

Self discovery is what this is all about.  No one knows what tomorrow will bring, or how we will feel.  We can only guess based on how we feel today and felt yesterday.  Keep asking yourself those tough questions and look inside to try and find the answers. 

As far as the use of pronouns...people tend to use what they see or what they are used to.  A stranger will most likely use the one they perceive you to be...if you are dressed as a girl, and look and act like a girl, they will most likely call you "she"...if you are dressed as a girl, but look and act like a guy, they will call you whichever one pops into their head as they say it.  Don't take this too personally, as lots of men are called ma'am and lots of women are called sir.

On a personal level, I still struggle with who I am (you would think at 50 I would have figured it out by now)...but all I really know is what I am not.  I am not TS.  I am not all male, nor all female.  I am not exciting (yep, I'm really kinda boring) and I am not 6 feet tall (but almost).

Oh am i..hehe a bitch?  Well if you take the male things i'm accused of being a prick or bastard then i guess as a female i am (not a bitch i would hope) but bitchy i think???

Aww Ricki...don't sell yourself short, you know you are!   

.....Laurie

[Kendall]

Hey Pat/Kate...Welcome back you lurker you...LOL

Self discovery is what this is all about.  No one knows what tomorrow will bring, or how we will feel.  We can only guess based on how we feel today and felt yesterday.  Keep asking yourself those tough questions and look inside to try and find the answers. 

Finding yourself in the world (who, what, where, why, and how) on a personal aspect and as well as where you fit in your relationships, communities, and universal day-to-day sense.

On a personal level, I still struggle with who I am (you would think at 50 I would have figured it out by now)...but all I really know is what I am not.  I am not TS.  I am not all male, nor all female.  I am not exciting (yep, I'm really kinda boring) and I am not 6 feet tall (but almost).

There are lots of young 50 year teenagers on this site , lol. Very wise teenagers that is.

This is only my second post on here....I made one back in September and have been lurking ever since!  I guess I'm still in the discovery phase as well....well discovery/confusion because I guess I'm still unsure about whether I'm an androgyne or TS!  I have been coming out to everyone in my circle(s) of friends/aquaintances (sp?), my classmates, my profs.  I mean I am lucky in the sense that I'm young(ish)...23....and am in a VERY progressive women's studies program that has a trans-woman as the head of our department and offers courses on transsexual/transgender issues (such as cultural production).  So the environment I'm in is SUPER supportive....I've just been talking with as many people as I can about this stuff as prepartion for the talk with my parents (oooooooh boy)!!

You sound like you really are in a good position and taking great courses.

a) I'll say "wow....this is so NOT what I expected....I don't like this...I'm comfortable in the skin I have (biologically)" (this option is realistically the least likely of all three but still it is a possibility)
OR
b) I'll say "wow...I'm content with this....I'm happy with a completely inter-gendered/androgynous body"
OR
c) I'll say "wow...I REALLY like this and want to continue on to SRS"

Only nature knows the answer to that one, though you may have some hints.

I guess I'm at a point where it's not about the clothing....cause I can get all dressed up to the nines "en femme" (which I do oh so rarely)....and some people are content like that....but when the clothes come off I still feel incomplete!

I have been experimenting my hair-style/clothing-style for a little while now and its been fun but it's not enough!  I currently have a super cute Riot Grrrl haircut (ie: mid-nineties Kathleen-Hannah-bikini kill style) and have found ways of including more skirts/feminine cut t-shirts/tight(er) clothing into my wardrobe, which usually garners some nice compliments!

Clothing doesnt make the person, but the person picks the clothing. Experimenting with styles does help you try new things and decide what you like for that period in your life (styles change).

[beatrix]

I don't know again.

Had a little time all alone today.  I dressed en femme today (no make-up, though, or shoes), and, while I agree with what Ken/Kendra said, I almost cried.  I wanted to cry because I'd been wanting to do that for a while and when I finally did and looked in the mirror and thought, "That's me.  Is it?  I don't know!  Am I happy with just this?"  All I could answer is the last one as "I don't think so."

I've been totally on thinking-too-much-about-gender mode the whole week, downloading podcasts, listening, surfing more for support groups.  I had my last appointment with my therapist for a while (found a new job and insurance is paused for the interim).  They knew it would be my last for a while, and had some awesome suggestions, but they all involved meeting people in the area and I really just can't even get out of the house most days.  I can't exactly just hang out in the gay bar and talk to someone and go, "Hey, can you help me with my gender-identity crisis?"  Can I?

No one thing solves everything.  I got a new job (which is awesome, FWIW) and thought my depression would lift with my medicine, and it did.  It is a lot better.  I'm not on the verge of suicide any more, but it's still there and all seems to center around identity.  My wife noticed my depressed nature yesterday, and commented, but she can't stand the idea of me dressed, so . . . how I can I confide in her when she can't even understand. 

Shortly after I told her, I did a full chest hair-removal thing and she hated it.  It's all grown back now and she always comments how she likes it.  I can't stand it.  Every time I take a shower I want to tear that forest down, you know.  It's just one more thing.

Maybe genderqueer is a thing for me that is in the middle, maybe cross-dressing and breasts and hairlessness.  I have no idea at all.

But I looked at myself in the mirror and even the bulge I had from the bad tucking job and my fat gut didn't detract from what I saw, which could be a step for me, but I have no idea.

What am I any more? 

d/b

[Vanessa V.]

So hmm...

Hey alls, back after a little stint away here...

Some very interesting things going on here on my side...

So the relationship with me and my girlfriend over these last week or so has sped up pretty nicely. We've been seeing each other more often and with greater detail...

And I find myself thinking less and less about my gender issues....

I wonder why that is.

She often speaks highly of my masculinity and my romantic nature. Perhaps this is granting my masculine side more confidence? Or maybe more completion as I feel "more of a man?" And she herself is pretty girly. Does this sate my feminine side perhaps? Does Vanessa live perhaps vicariously through her?

I'm definitely at a greater sense of peace with myself that I've been in a while. And its very strange! But also very lovely...

I wonder if I've moved to a new phase in my Androgyne experience. Folks with Significant Others... any thoughts on this?

-Nessa

[Casey]

I wanted to cry because I'd been wanting to do that for a while and when I finally did and looked in the mirror and thought, "That's me.  Is it?  I don't know!  Am I happy with just this?"  All I could answer is the last one as "I don't think so."

They call it the formative years for good reason. Sometimes it takes a while to know what you really want. And that's OK. It's a process.

I can understand how disappointing it can be to try a look and discover that it's not really you. But the thing is you tried it. This one wan't "it". You could see it as a failed experiment or you could choose to see it as one more thing that you know isn't you. Sometimes knowing what isn't you is the very thing to help you decide what is you. It's that search for "something else".

Maybe genderqueer is a thing for me that is in the middle, maybe cross-dressing and breasts and hairlessness.  I have no idea at all.

Could be. Just think of all the possible permutations of that seemingly simple concept. Crossdressing how exactly? Hairlessness where? B cup breasts or a little swelling or something that you can easily bind if you want or...? It's kind of like tweaking your computer's settings. Hmm, that wasn't quite right, what happens if I do this? The trick as I said before is to see this as always getting one step closer to you simply because you get a better idea of what isn't you.

What am I any more?

You are a person we enjoy chatting with and exchanging ideas with. Hang in there. "This too shall pass."

Right now I'm somewhere around the end of ignoring/beginning of discovery of myself phase.  I grew up in a conservative area so I hid a lot of my personality so I wouldn't make waves.  Now I'm trying to figure out who I am.  I'm not totally sure where I will end up finding myself in terms of TG, Androgyne, or TS.  But I'm sure that regardless of where I end up, I'll be a happier person for at least doing the soul searching and experimenting to find out who I am.

                  Peace and love,
                                       Kelly

That's a great outlook Kelly. I'm sure you'll discover that you're exactly right. Where you end up isn't really important. The freedom you get from allowing yourself to just be you and the insight you gain into yourself are the true rewards.

[beatrix]

They call it the formative years for good reason. Sometimes it takes a while to know what you really want. And that's OK. It's a process.

I can understand how disappointing it can be to try a look and discover that it's not really you. But the thing is you tried it. This one wan't "it". You could see it as a failed experiment or you could choose to see it as one more thing that you know isn't you. Sometimes knowing what isn't you is the very thing to help you decide what is you. It's that search for "something else".

Sorry, let me be clear; I liked what I saw, but I wasn't sure that was enough.  I want to be more feminine in appearance.

It's not that I like to over analyze (okay, I do, sorry), but as I age, (I just turned 28), I would have figured that I would have figured this all out.

I know that's not true for everyone; or it may not even be true for anyone (!), but it's just what I think right now, without any context.

But that's where I'm at in my experience.  Which is the topic of the thread.   

Thank you for your advice.  I need some work; perhaps it relates to my poor self image (and health), and so as I make progress down that road (again!, I got frustrated after 2 months of plateu on my weight loss and gave up on, well, near everything, and that was part of my job-based depression anyway), perhaps that will help.

And I like exchanging ideas with everyone here, as well.  Thank you.  That made me feel better tonight.   

I know this will pass, but it's hard when you're in the middle of "this."  I just want to make progress. 

That and I don't want to lose my wife.  I don't know if she'll take it well if I decide that I want some breasts; I don't even know how I'll take it.  It was rough when I told her that I thought I may be a crossdresser (but that's a whole other thread).

One day at a time; Alocholic's Anonymous had that part right. 

Though I've spoken with one person here at Susans about coming out a little more.  I really can't keep this part of me seperate from the rest any more.  I've already almost told all of my friends, despite the moritorium against that from my wife. Even her having a really good gay friend doesn't loosen that feeling for her.

Like Kelly, I grew up in a weird area (this is farm country, mostly, aside from Chicago a couple hours away).  I kept a lot to myself and didn't think  much about any of this until recently; then it hit me like a ton of heavy things. 

I'm not one to believe in repressed memories, but as I've thought more about this, the more some things come to mind, like how I tried to try my mom's bra on once on a whim and, even at age 12 or 13, I was way bigger than her.  So the whole episode was kind of pointless.  Does it mean anything?  Who knows.

And yet . . .  16 years later . . .

(On a completely off-topic but not worthy of it's own topic note, does anyone else think it strange that nearly ALL of the advertisements I see when I'm on myspace involve Lane Bryant . . .)

thanks

b/d

[chunk]

I'm wearing a boob flattening sports bra to work and a man's muscle shirt.



Chunk.

[seldom]

I am without question in the androgyne category.  I had my discovery phase and I definately had the time in my life where I was very androgynous in the way I looked (throughout high school and college).  The thing is I am older now, and as much as I miss who I was then, I have to figure out who I am now.  I can no longer be that person.
I am still an androgyne in the way I think and behave.  I cannot escape this.  But I am differant from who I was.  Experience has made me more aware of who I am, but I need to find where I will be.  I am still trying to find what I am comfortable with.
That is the weird thing with androgyny, is there is no real guidebook for the individual.  That is the difficult part, finding what you are comfortable with in the contexts of oneself.  I cannot dress the same way some of my androgyne friends do, but that is because my androgyny is a bit differant.  I tend to be more shy, more reserved, basically more ambiguis, where they are more apparent and out there with thier androgyny and bend the very rules the gender binary.  This may have to do with the fact they are very sexual, and I am asexual.  I rather be mousey and endearing, but completely nonsexual in my androgyny, because that is how I feel.

The thing is I am comfortable with being an androgyne.  I have had my moments where I hated it, but now I do not think I would have it any other way. 

Also I would not call this a new category, it is for Susans, but androgynes have been around for ages. 

[bananaslug]

Also I would not call this a new category, it is for Susans, but androgynes have been around for ages. 

Absolutely right Seldom.  Looking back through history, it would seem that androgyny has been around and indeed cherished by many cultures for a long time.  The bi-gendered system is, in my opinion, in urgent need of update as it has fallen behind many other areas of social progress.

[Laurry]

It's not that I like to over analyze (okay, I do, sorry), but as I age, (I just turned 28), I would have figured that I would have figured this all out.

Don't worry, you will figure it all out several times and then realize, each time, that "Oops, that's not it either"  Now that I'm a wise old soul of 50, I've come to realize that the more I learn, the less I know.  I'm afraid I'm gonna learn so much I'll be a completel idiot  

That is the weird thing with androgyny, is there is no real guidebook for the individual.  That is the difficult part, finding what you are comfortable with in the contexts of oneself.  I cannot dress the same way some of my androgyne friends do, but that is because my androgyny is a bit different.

Exactly...the one thing you can bet your life savings on is that any guidebook for Androgynes will be completely wrong 99.99% of the time.  It may be right for you (and parts may be right for others...almost), but sadly, it is an individual journey of self-examination, full of learning by trial and error.  The best we can do is to support and encourage each other (Thank you Susan's!!) and maybe we can save someone from a mistake or two along the way by sharing what has happened to us.

I'm wearing a boob flattening sports bra to work and a man's muscle shirt.

Those with straight hair always want curls.  Those with curly hair always want it straighter.  Wish I had that problem were I had to wear a boob flattening sports bra to work...sheesh

.....Laurie

[chunk]

It's not that I like to over analyze (okay, I do, sorry), but as I age, (I just turned 28), I would have figured that I would have figured this all out.

Amen to that. At nearly 40 one would think one would get these kinds of things figured out.

Those with straight hair always want curls.  Those with curly hair always want it straighter.  Wish I had that problem were I had to wear a boob flattening sports bra to work...sheesh

I'll admit it. Boobs are fun. You can squish 'em. You can let them out for the day. Men have entire discussions with them. You can even name them. Stretching a t-shirt across them with some message is fun. ...somebody should probably take them away from me as I obviously have no clue here as to   'correct breast protocol'. LOL.

Chunk