Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Johnny Weir Got Screwed Cuz He's Girly

Started by Julie Marie, February 19, 2010, 09:45:10 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Julie Marie

I was watching the Olympics last night.  When it got to men's figure skating it was a battle between Russia and the US for gold.  But not too far behind was a rather flamboyant figure skater from the US named Johnny Weir.

For anyone who doesn't know who he is, he is a very talented skater who is also very feminine.  He makes his own outfits and goes well past the limits of what is the acceptable boundaries for men presenting femininely, even for figure skating.


Well, he had the performance of his life last night.  He made maybe one mistake but hit all his jumps and spins and was so graceful.  I thought he had a chance to medal.  When his scores came up, the judges were brutal.  The only reason I could think of was his feminine presentation.  Most MTFs would be jealous of how cute he is.  And after his performance he pushed the boundaries even further with a rose crown and pretty rose bouquet. Good for him!

If anyone else saw it, what did you think.  Did he get screwed?


View My Video
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

tekla

What kind of Winter Olympics would it be if someone was not getting royally screwed in the skating competition?  A few rounds ago there was a female French skater who they all thought was 'too masculine'.  And, at the very core when you strip away all the stupid shenanigans I always thought that Tonya Harding had more than a few true points about how all that is really scored, and why Nancy Kerrigan always won, even though, if this really was an athletic competition I think that Tonya was right in saying she was, flat-out a much better skater.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

rejennyrated

Seems like it Julie...

Interesting thing for me is that figure skating was one of the very few "sports" that I really liked when I was growing up. I was never any good, but I just loved the fact that it was the one place where I could be almost graceful. I wonder if there is something about it which calls out to the cross gendered individual?
  •  

tekla

Isn't being a male figure skater pretty much a 10 on a 1-10 scale of gay things to do?  Right up there with ballet?  Not that everyone who does it is, but its more than a bit gayer than say hockey.  So being 'too' gay for the sport seems funny.  But like the females who pushed the athletic boundries thinking it was a sport and they would be rewarded being overly artistic can be punished also.

At any rate he blew it in the short program, there was no way he could catch the other guys in the free skate.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Julie Marie

Well, Johnny Weir does push the boundaries a bit farther than the rest.



Even though he didn't do well in the short program there was no reason he should have been underscored in the long.  The crowd loved it.  He got a standing O.  Guess some judges didn't agree with the crowd.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

Janet_Girl

It really does not matter what the people liked or didn't like.  It comes down to the judges and their personal likes and dislike.

Having watched it I thought he did quite well, but the judges saw something that we didn't.  Or some did not like him personally.
  •  

juliekins

Go Johnnie go!

I love him because he has the courage to be himself and not care what others think. At one point watching it last night with Julie, I was saying how easily he could transition, and how some E would look great on him in terms of new curves etc. Then I realized that I was myself getting into the gender binary closet, and possibly projecting my own stuff onto him. He's wonderful because he expands the definition of being male, and reflects the true gender expression spectrum. Maybe this will over time help kids who are outside the norms to feel great about being themselves, and will help others accept them as a uniquely expressive and interesting person. Just my 2 cents...
"I don't need your acceptance, just your love"
  •  

gennee

Julie, Johnny was flawless and I love his costume. There's this idea that one has to present a certain way or has to come from the club groups.  A case in point is Venus and Serena Williams.

There have been years when judges have downgraded skaters because they presented program totally different from what they expect. 

Tonya Harding was probably a better skater. Nancy Kerrigan was a solid but not a creative skater. She won the silver medal simple because she skated a flawless program. As far as creativity, there really wasn't very much.

Gennee
   
Be who you are.
Make a difference by being a difference.   :)

Blog: www.difecta.blogspot.com
  •  

BrandiOK

I don't think he got screwed.  He even admitted himself that his skating isn't up to the level of Lysacek or Plushenko even at his best.  He was just happy to score his best ever on the semi-finals. 

Being a manly male figure skater is a lot less common than being a girly male figure skater so I doubt that was it.  On the contrary, everyone seems to love Johnny Weir because he's just so fun.  I loved watching him "rock the tassle" but I have to agree him that he's not quite up to the skill of the medalists..............yet. 
  •  

Megan

He looks like my role model a bit... Mitch Hewer. Except he's uglier of course.

  •  

Julie Marie

Well, if you saw the performance, he only made a couple minor mistakes.  The commentators said he skated the performance of his life.  The score he got was 10-20 points below what other similar performances got, and at least one skater who scored better fell on the ice.

Whatever we saw, it shows when we judge, prejudice is there.  Weir wasn't a gold or silver but bronze was possible.  But that's just me.  I'm sure Biff and Bluto down at the tavern thought the judges should have DQ'd Weir cuz he had such a pretty costume.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

Alyx.

Ooh, I like him. :3 He's very pretty.

Way to go, Johnny! Push those boundaries!
If you do not agree to my demands... TOO LATE
  •  

tekla

It's not just about skating better, its about what moves give you the most points.  That, and I'm sure that most of the people here only watched the free skate, which he nailed.  He did not do so well on the compulsories.  More than half the points for getting to those medals are done in events that are more or less - mostly less - off camera.

He would have won if he could have landed a quad, without it, no medal for boys in skating.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

justmeinoz

I think he got screwed because he was Johnny Weir.

He was interviewed at length on the Channel9 broadcast, and admitted that he made a couple of minor errors, but also said that the judging is always very 'political', so didn't really give himself a big chance of gold. There was no way that America was ever going to win more than one medal, no matter how good the US skaters were.

He made the point that he doesn't take himself too seriously, and anything he does is all part of the show.

Anyone who can teach themselves to skate at 13 from TV, and learn to do an Axel in 2 WEEKS is a genius on skates !!!! I have been learning for 18 months and am still coming to terms with edges. I am in awe of the guy.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
  •  

kyle_lawrence

I'm kind of obsessed with his reality show on the Sundance Channel, Be Good Johnny Weir.  He's hands down my favorite person of the month.

  •  

VampyreAri

Just stumbled onto this topic and just had to say: I definitely think the judges just didn't like him. Anyone who was watching his performance could see the way the crowd reacted. They loved him! Underscored? Definitely. He was underscored both rounds, I think. But people don't really notice it as much because he had a few small errors. ...Still think he should've gotten bronze. Or at LEAST fourth.

Also: Johnny Weir is just amazing and fabulous and sexy. Just a sidenote. :laugh:
  •  

tekla

Ignoring the quadrennial debate about figure skating even being a sport - and it's not - I'm pretty sure that Wier didn't even care.  He didn't do this for the medals, he did it for the PR, because the only money you can make in figure skating is on the tour.

It's just the reverse of what, had you been watching, happened first to Surya Bonaly and then Tonya Harding.  Both of whom never won despite being the strongest athletes in a supposed athletic competition.  Hell, back in the early 90s Bonaly did two things that no other female skater has ever done since then, a backflip landing on one blade, and quadruple toe loop jump.  Yet she somehow lost on 'artistic merit' to some drunk Russian chic who was far closer to the ice princess model the judges demand.  Nancy Kerrigan of course was the perfect ice princess, white, upper-middle class, with a mind that can only be described as vacuous, and a personality that personifies the word 'bitch.'  There is little doubt, as Tonya tried to say over and over again, that it's those elements, not the skating elements, that the judges really score on.  Nancy fit the model, Tonya did not. 

So then you get Wier who is the perfect reverse of the above, a great skater but a ->-bleeped-<-ty athlete.  His training schedule, by his own admission, is not even close to what the others are putting in.  On the other hand, the time he's not devoting to the technical program he spends doing PR, and that he has such a huge fan base, his own TV show, and all that, prove that the time is well spent if your after fortune and fame and not a medal.

There has been a great deal made of the changes in the scoring that went into effect this Olympics that put a far greater stress on the tricks/stunts/'technical elements' and downplayed the artistry.  It's particularly true for the radical change in doubling the point values for the elements in the second half, so that a quad landed at the end of the routine is worth twice what it get at the beginning.  For sure those changes hurt Weir's chances.  But I also think that had the HUGE change not occurred in the 1990s, to eliminate the compulsory figures that gave figure skating its name, then I doubt if Weir would have even made the team.  In pre-90s skating most people were eliminated long before the programs were even skated.

If your really interested in the whole figure skating and gender deal you should read Ellyn Kestnbaum's book Culture on Ice: Figure Skating And Cultural Meaning who could have told you Wier would lose before anyone even laced up a skate.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Kohaku

Gotta agree with the others I was blown away by Weir's performance. Honestly he was really underscored by the judges, everyone I know who saw his performances felt that.
  •  

tekla

Without going into the rather involved rules and points, suffice it to say that skating judges at an event are not watching the skater, as much as they are watching the skates. (in the same way that professional dance stuff is judged on footwork).  For casual observers who are not trained they can't see what the judges see - the difference between landing on the inside edge or the outside edge, or (and Wier has a real problem with this, though I'm sure most don't notice it) how much time they spend on one skate vs. both feet.

And honestly, I though he was much better last year at Skate America, then his performance in Vancouver.  By his own admission he started training too late for this, and 14 months ago was not even going to do it - choosing to dash for cash rather than run for fun as the old saying goes.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Julie Marie

Quote from: tekla on March 02, 2010, 01:52:51 PM
Without going into the rather involved rules and points, suffice it to say that skating judges at an event are not watching the skater, as much as they are watching the skates.

Kat, you know as well as I do that when Weir steps onto the ice some judges just cringe.  Practically every society in the world holds masculinity sacred and Weir breaks most all the rules.

While Weir is enjoying success with TV shows and a clothing line, Plushenko is basking in shame.


Russian figure skater Evgeni Plushenko, disappointed with his silver medal at the Vancouver Winter Olympics, may leave his seat in the St. Petersburg legislature to devote more time to sports and return to the top of world figure skating.

I'm trying to think of how many politicians we had participating in the Olympics.  ::)
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •