GRS w/out vagina

[Kellam]

I don't know if it would be needed. I've thought about a penectomy and orchiectomy both as well. I actually found out about men, who identify as men, who want to undergo those procedures as well. I think they call themselves "smoothies". I played the cis man role in several relationships too. It always made me feel really paranoid as I was constantly worried about pregnancy and it never felt "right" it was so strange for me. I acted upon the urges because that's what my stupid biology was making me do and every time I did I felt worse and worse. I felt like a pervert and a sex addict. I never got pleasure out of any sexual experience. Since I've been on hrt I've not had any need or desire to masturbate in quite some time. It's really nice to not have to feel the need to do that on a daily basis.

Yes again and again on the life story thing. And hrt is magic in that way especially. Although mine still makes the occasional demand. The relief is enormous. it never felt good, like a bad bm. The worst thing for me in my relationship was I was kind of living through her, I was super disassociated from my own existence. She had been my best friend and then I found out she wanted me. So I dated her to keep my friend. I couldn't loose another female friend because all she saw was a man. I was so lonely. The sex always felt like self rape. (I apologize to survivors of sexual assault but that is the best word I have to describe it, it haunts me still) I was not me during the act. Just doing what she wanted. But if I was her I wouldn't want that so it was like watching myself have to go through something that I didn't want to do while doing something I didn't want to do as someone I wasn't.

[Lady Curiosity]

Yes again and again on the life story thing. And hrt is magic in that way especially. Although mine still makes the occasional demand. The relief is enormous. it never felt good, like a bad bm. The worst thing for me in my relationship was I was kind of living through her, I was super disassociated from my own existence. She had been my best friend and then I found out she wanted me. So I dated her to keep my friend. I couldn't loose another female friend because all she saw was a man. I was so lonely. The sex always felt like self rape. (I apologize to survivors of sexual assault but that is the best word I have to describe it, it haunts me still) I was not me during the act. Just doing what she wanted. But if I was her I wouldn't want that so it was like watching myself have to go through something that I didn't want to do while doing something I didn't want to do as someone I wasn't.

I was super disassociated too! I still am to a degree. I blocked out all my emotions and was very separate from myself. I always felt others were more "real" than me and I felt like a fake person. I can definitely sympathize on the act and how that made you feel. I usually felt bad afterwards but kind of kept shoving it out of my mind and repressing things. I hope that things have been getting better for you now though. *Hugs*

[Jenna Marie]

Kellam : Brassard doesn't require electro, either. (And there's no electro needed for anyone who won't have a vaginal vault constructed, no matter the surgeon.) I respect that you don't want to be reminded of the old parts, but I'll say that I at least have never been - everything looks and feels SO different. Similarly, post-op I find that I'm no longer a slave to the physical need; I can get in the mood if I want to, but I have to *want* to.

Regardless, I think that if you want to eliminate the "need" you're worried about, what you most likely want is to request, at minimum, no clitoris and no penile nerves preserved, as well as no vagina. That should still leave you with something resembling female genitalia if you want to avoid questions in locker rooms and whatnot. But you definitely could try to find someone who'll remove it all and simply relocate the urethra. I think it's more difficult to find a surgeon willing to do that - it shouldn't be, I absolutely agree that it's your body, but the sad truth is that many will balk - versus getting a minimal vulva constructed.

[Kellam]

I was super disassociated too! I still am to a degree. I blocked out all my emotions and was very separate from myself. I always felt others were more "real" than me and I felt like a fake person. I can definitely sympathize on the act and how that made you feel. I usually felt bad afterwards but kind of kept shoving it out of my mind and repressing things. I hope that things have been getting better for you now though. *Hugs*

Things are way better! I still feel like I am coming out of a fog, but I can see the sun and sky now, only a thin haze remains. I feel grounded in my life, I hope you are happier too! *hugs back*

[Kellam]

Kellam : Brassard doesn't require electro, either. (And there's no electro needed for anyone who won't have a vaginal vault constructed, no matter the surgeon.) I respect that you don't want to be reminded of the old parts, but I'll say that I at least have never been - everything looks and feels SO different. Similarly, post-op I find that I'm no longer a slave to the physical need; I can get in the mood if I want to, but I have to *want* to.

Regardless, I think that if you want to eliminate the "need" you're worried about, what you most likely want is to request, at minimum, no clitoris and no penile nerves preserved, as well as no vagina. That should still leave you with something resembling female genitalia if you want to avoid questions in locker rooms and whatnot. But you definitely could try to find someone who'll remove it all and simply relocate the urethra. I think it's more difficult to find a surgeon willing to do that - it shouldn't be, I absolutely agree that it's your body, but the sad truth is that many will balk - versus getting a minimal vulva constructed.

That is soooo good to know, thanks! It is really good to be able to discuss these things without someone telling me I am crazy and to have that discussion with folks who can fully empathize makes it doubly special. Thanks for the info!

[Lady Curiosity]

Things are way better! I feel grounded in my life, I hope you are happier too! *hugs back*

I am much happier now! Still working through things but am getting better all the time. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more sometime.

[Kellam]

I am much happier now! Still working through things but am getting better all the time. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more sometime.

Yay! You are so sweet and I may just take you up on that pm offer. I need to log off, charge my device and calm down now though. I have a lot of good stuff to think about, thanks.

[Lady Curiosity]

Yay! You are so sweet and I may just take you up on that pm offer. I need to log off, charge my device and calm down now though. I have a lot of good stuff to think about, thanks.

Awww thank you. ^_^ I'll be patiently waiting if you decide to PM. I'm glad that you have good things to think about. Remember to take deep breaths to calm down. Hehe.

[Kellam]

Well please don't wait. I feel guilty already! I came back because I meant to extend the same offer to you! Please feel free! 

[Susan Dundee]

Regarding hair removal if necessary for vaginal depth, even a very shallow one to make the 'cosmetic' partial vaginoplasty look better.  Bear in mind that if you have been on hormones for many years and possibly had an orchidectomy as well that the surgeon will have a LOT less to work with - I speak from personal experience on this.  There is always the possibility of laser hair removal rather than electrolysis.  Having had extensive electrolysis on my face and also some laser on my face as well as on my hands and arms I can say I would without question opt for laser down 'there'.

Susan

[bmapwv]

Regarding hair removal if necessary for vaginal depth, ...... Having had extensive electrolysis on my face and also some laser on my face as well as on my hands and arms I can say I would without question opt for laser down 'there'.

I had a full (normal?) vaginoplasty and I required hair removal for it. I had a mixture of laser and electro (4 high power laser, 13 electro) over a period of some months. I preferred the laser but with plenty of EMLA cream the electro was very tolerable.

Incidentally, all the UK surgeons offer both full and cosmetic vaginaoplasty and they all take private patients. The cost is around £10K ~ $16K and you stay in a hospital, not a hotel or a cottage, for 6 to 7 days.

[Kellam]

It isn't pain I was worried about it is having to be awake while someone touches that stuff for an extended period of time. That is a no go situation for me. Not interested. Thankfully this is one situation where I am glad to be in the ginger and blond range. I don't even need to think about laser as I have the wrong hair color. No, getting that done would be humiliating. I will not be doing that. And as I said I don't care what it looks like, the more invisible the end result the better and I think a bit of hair would be helpful to that end.

[Rose City Rose]

Waxing on this from a feminist perspective, I think the demand for cosmetic procedures would be less if so much of the world didn't cling to paternalistic ideals of chastity and purity being cardinal female virtues.  I can't help but wonder if the creation of a purely aesthetic labia isn't at least partly driven by violence against female sexuality.

In the eyes of a patriarchal society, Women aren't supposed to enjoy sex, and we see in many cultures the mutilation of female genitalia so that women can't enjoy sex.  Even in America and Britain, the practice was given scientific justification well into the 20th century by scientists who pathologized female sexuality.

For some, purely aesthetic surgery may be a sound expression of asexuality which is not pathological, but for others it may very well be a psychosocial act of violence against the self from internalized misogyny.  I support everyone's right to make an informed consent choice about their treatment but I think some serious soul-searching would be in need for anyone considering this.

[bmapwv]

For some, purely aesthetic surgery may be a sound expression of asexuality which is not pathological, but for others it may very well be a psychosocial act of violence against the self from internalized misogyny.  I support everyone's right to make an informed consent choice about their treatment but I think some serious soul-searching would be in need for anyone considering this.

I know three people who have taken this option and a fourth who gets it in January. What they all have in common is:

- All are in their mid to late 60s
- None have any interest in sex or a desire to have it
- All wanted the fastest recovery time
- One has a heart condition and wants a faster, less invasive, less stressful surgery

None of them are pathologised by the patriarchy

[Lady Smith]

Speaking for myself I would be perfectly happy with cosmetic GRS if I had the money for it.  I'm an asexual romantic and have no real interest in sex.  Friendships are more important to me than having a lover and I'm completely content to have my bed to myself and not share it with anyone.
Being non binary I wouldn't be much put out if I had to go to my grave with wart (my penis) still attached to my body.  The most important thing that I no longer have T poison in my bloodstream twisting my mind up and is why I think an orchie is the best thing since sliced bread.  (Orchies for everyone - Yay!).
In this binary world it would be kind of convenient not to have wart attached to me as I much prefer to use women's spaces and being wartless I wouldn't have to worry about being seen with my knickers off.  I used to know a transwoman who'd had the 'op' and I was with her when some jackass decided to tell her she wasn't a woman and she shouldn't be where she was.  I soon discovered that she liked to go commando because she immediately lifted her skirt to show the mouthy idiot that she was indeed female.  The moment was priceless 
I'm not likely to do anything like that EVER, but it would be nice to have the moral high ground should I ever be challenged.

Oh and another reason is that at my age (61) and with my health issues I would want a nice simple operation that won't take too much time to heal up and recover from.

[Kellam]

I was raised in a very feminist household. My Mom has been actively fighting the feminist fight in her church my whole life. She writes and preaches on the women of the bible. We have always been very close. I do not adhere to patriarchal notions of womanhood either. I never thought she would accept me as her daughter because she wanted to share the miracle of her life giving loins with a daughter. She now proudly and publicly declares that I have taught her that womanhood is not about mere biology but one's very soul.

When I realized that cis rules do not apply to me I was thrilled! Their rules do not apply to my body or my mind and I see no reason to be forced to emulate their bodies via invasive and unnecessary surgery.

[Dena]

It isn't pain I was worried about it is having to be awake while someone touches that stuff for an extended period of time. That is a no go situation for me. Not interested. Thankfully this is one situation where I am glad to be in the ginger and blond range. I don't even need to think about laser as I have the wrong hair color. No, getting that done would be humiliating. I will not be doing that. And as I said I don't care what it looks like, the more invisible the end result the better and I think a bit of hair would be helpful to that end.

My surgery is 33 years old and was penile inversion, the most common surgery at the time and not a single hair needed to be removed in the lower regions to make the surgery possible. The resulting surgery as given me a 5.5 inch depth and there is no hair in the inside. I had sufficient skin so grafts weren't required but also I had erections up to the day of surgery so the skin was all nice and stretched out.

[Kellam]

That is kind of you to share Dena and I hope it helps someone for whom that was a stumbling block. I just don't want any depth so it does not apply to me.

[DKTGSupport]

I have actually had intercourse with a cis woman. I played the "man" in a hetero relationship for eight years when I was deep in denial.... I want all my plumbing gone. I have thought long and hard about this.

I've never been in bed with a girl. But several times a week I also wants plumbing gone. I've manage to disable my erections with something called banding.

That's why I asked about alone time release because that is my only real concern. Will I need it when the man stuff is gone at last? If I can go without it I would prefer it honestly. It would be most acceptable to me to have nothing there. Just a penectomy and orchiectomy, something left to pee out of. Or will they do that with just enough nerve tissue for release minus labia? My problem is I don't ever want to be reminded of the birth stuff, I don't want to see labia and think, scrotum. Also I have heard about the electrolysis one must undergo on that stuff, I am not doing that and there is no discussion to be had on the subject. I do not want sex and I understand and accept the consequences.

I just want some nerve-ends so that I can masturbate(vibrator/rubbing). But for the rest I don't mind. When I see a female in white undies, with a smooth area I wish it could be me.

I've thought about a penectomy and orchiectomy both as well. I actually found out about men, who identify as men, who want to undergo those procedures as well. I think they call themselves "smoothies".

I'm one of them.

[WendyAnn.1969]

I briefly considered this and after VERY careful consideration, I decided that I would go the entire route.
I'm set up for next summer on one of my very good friend's birthday   

No, I didn't mean to commandeer your birthday girl - with my 3rd one (birth, HRT initiation, and GRS) but what can I say, they had an opening - and I took it.