Antiandrogen effects on scalp hair

[Asfsd4214]

It sounds like you should really go see a therapist if you're not already. Not that your hairloss isn't legitimate cause for distress, but your ability to deal with it could be an issue unto itself.
Post Merge: February 28, 2010, 09:14:01 PM

How do you know this? Any science behind it?

Not trying to be a smart a$$ btw. Just a question.

Testosterone is extremely important in the maintainence of the male reproductive system. Without it it will start to stop working and begin to atrophy as a result.

[negative]

Ashley, I would love to speak to a knowledgable doctor but I can't seem to find one. The last one I saw told me, "No, spironolactone is just a potassium sparing diuretic", he had no idea that it was an antiandrogen.

I just don't want to be hasty in getting off of it because I could lose more hair.

Anybody else have experiences with their hair on these meds?
Post Merge: February 28, 2010, 09:21:32 PM
[/quote]
Testosterone is extremely important in the maintainence of the male reproductive system. Without it it will start to stop working and begin to atrophy as a result.
[/quote]

The penis as well?

[Flan]

How do you know this? Any science behind it?

Not trying to be a smart a$$ btw. Just a question.
...
The penis as well?

personal experience and that of other women in transition, obviously it varies by person to person, but that's a general time-frame.

and yes, the penis will atrophy if erections are not encouraged, it takes longer for that to happen. (I can't quote times since it's a per person thing)

[negative]

FlanHusky, Dang thats fast, is that all you took, Spiro and fin?

[Asfsd4214]

Ashley, I would love to speak to a knowledgable doctor but I can't seem to find one. The last one I saw told me, "No, spironolactone is just a potassium sparing diuretic", he had no idea that it was an antiandrogen.

I just don't want to be hasty in getting off of it because I could lose more hair.

Anybody else have experiences with their hair on these meds?

A lot of doctors don't know much, it can take a few goes to find one who does, unfortunately.

I don't have much experience with hair loss personally, but my understanding is that although you can prevent further hairloss with 5AR inhibitors like finastride, regrowth is very variable, it depends of the follicles have actually died yet or are just suppressed. Only time can tell. If the hair loss is pretty minimal, a hair transplant could be a very effective option.

In theory, you could with spironolactone alone prevent further hair loss, but you would suffer side effects of hormone deficiency, the worst of which is osteoporosis. You simply couldn't keep doing it in the long term. The body needs sex hormones, either estrogens or androgens. Finastride is also very commonly prescribed to men to prevent hair loss, and not everyone experiences the side effects I mentioned before.

[Flan]

FlanHusky, Dang thats fast, is that all you took, Spiro and fin?

just spiro and estrogen (to replace lost sex steroids)

(random edit as excuse to post picture)
sharps box, I love/hate thee (this is what happens if sex steroids are suppressed, some sort of supplementation)

[Asfsd4214]

The penis as well?

It will likely decrease in visible size over time, getting an erection may become more difficult too as the sex drive largely runs on testosterone.

[Muffin]

If you're not transitioning then I'd stay well away from spiro HONESTLY it is not for you. IF you are looking to treat hair loss then Finasteride and Dutasteride are more than fine and will give you results, they just take a long time and will not give you back perfect hair but it's the best way...  a lot better than spiro which will effect too much of the rest of your body. I'm sure you don't want breast buds forming after some time, seriously no spiro IMHO.

Also I'd recommend rinsing your hair with apple cider vinegar (mixed with water) after shampooing/conditioning, it balancing the pH of your hair, helps close cuticles and cleanses the follicles which is also a cause for hairloss. I've been doing it for awhile how and will never consider stopping, the benefits are awesome. My hair has never been so shiny, smooth and healthy

[Myself]

Someone said reduce stress in your life.. I am sorry, that is most likely not going to help you at all.. It is most likely as with most men that it is just genetic reaction to your natural male hormones produced by your body, but you probably know that already, this is why you are taking a medicine to fix it.

While not being on Avodart of Fin, but Androcur, Androcur does have a similar mechanism at these levels.

Testosterone converts to DHT, Androcur kills Testosterone, reducing the material converted to DHT, at these levels by even 90% or more maybe.

Fin and Avodart kill an enzyme which converts Testosterone to DHT, therefore serum testosterone should increase but DHT should be really low.

DHT as we know is the mechanism that kills the hair.
Anyways me personally only had some loss of hair in the temples, but tiny tiny bit.
Since antiandrogens my hair completely or almost completely returned after about a year or two and I think the tiny bit that;s left is growing back in I think.. and hope...

But you need to consider the negative effects of these medicine on your sexual functionality.
Also, many men report depression, but it might be a side effect of the sexual dis-functionality which sometimes comes with it, rather than a direct effect.

Consult a doctor before use

[LynnER]

Oh, and if you didn't know it. Spiro is more than an AA and potassium sparing diuretic. It's generally prescribed to women for hypertension and heart conditions....  your taking heart medication for your hair loss.... think about it.

And spiro will kill your male sex organs fairly quickly, 6 months to a year before you've done permanent damage to yourself. We know this how?  Simple, years and years of comparing notes with each other on this site about the effects of the different drugs we've been subjected to. Seriously, Bosley is probably your best option....

[Asfsd4214]

Oh, and if you didn't know it. Spiro is more than an AA and potassium sparing diuretic. It's generally prescribed to women for hypertension and heart conditions....  your taking heart medication for your hair loss.... think about it.

No offense, but that's the same as saying you're taking a prostate cancer medication for hair loss, which is one of the things Finastride is used for. And yet it's also marketed SPECIFICALLY for hair loss under the trade name Propecia. So that argument really holds no weight.

[Nicky]

Well, I think Negative has done a lot of homework. I think what you will find is there are no definits in this. Hormones seem to affect people differently at different doses, which is why monitoring is considered important.

I hope things work out for you. I would ask you to review the level of dosages you are taking, they did sound really high to me (not that I am a doctor), and I don't think there is much benefit in using more than you need to, it just increases the risk of side effects. My endo says just spiro will not make me permanantly sterile, in theory (no definits here). But it will reduce your fertility.

Rogain is supposed to be good for the hairline itself.

I for one have been on just finasteride and spiro for about 3 months or so (much lower doses than yourself). My gear still works, no atrophy, though I struggle to get it up outside of sex and my sex drive has diminished significantly. I also have some muscle loss, and some breast growth to date.

Definitly consider seeking treatment for depression or at least investigating this, the hairloss may have just been a trigger but you might find fixing the hair does not fix the depression. If you have been thinking about suicide then definitly something is not right.

[negative]

First off, Thank you all for your help.

Myself, Thank you for shareing your experience.

LynnER, from what I understand, spironolactone is generally safe. But for men it carries risks of sexual side effects and gynecomastia. I am incline to believe that you are exagerating a little on the side effects. I have experienced almost no side effects with 2 months on a high dose and some time before that on a lower dose. Regardless if that is what you believe then I thank you for your concern.

Nicky, I will consider treatment for depression and or BDD.I will also consider lowering my dose slightly, after a month or two.

O.K. if it is fine by ya'll I would like to hear some more people tell me about the experiences they have had with scalp hair while useing oral antiandrogens. Like how long did it take to get regrowth if any, if it failed to halt hair loss , etc.

Many thanks.

[Muffin]

Negative could you please explain why you are considering spiro for hair loss treatment? I'm a little baffled by this. In my understanding other hair treatment medications are much more suitable for hair regrowth without all the other effects on testosterone that spiro has. Spiro effects more than just the testosterone that effects hair follicles. If you're not transitioning then there is zero reason to consider it. Consider medication that is designed to specifically concentrate on just the testosterone that is converted to DHT. IMHHHHO.

And I'm a little shocked that people that claim to know about spiro here are still suggesting it :S Negative is NOT transitioning :S

[negative]

Androgenetic alopecia is what I have. My hair follicals are sensitive to all androgens not just dihydrotestosterone. DHT is the most harmfull because it has 5 times the affinity to bind to the androgen reseptors in my hair folilcals vs. testosterone.
Finasteride and dutaseride are 5 alph reductase inhibitors. They prevent test from converting to dht via the 5ar enzyme. Test increases and the receptors are left unprotected and can upregulat to compensate for the drop in dht.
Spironolactone succesfully compeats for the dht reseptor sites as well as other androgens. Spiro decreases test levels significantly but not all together by far. So it is still reasonably safe for me to use.
These two drugs complement each other on the way they work. Fin reduces dht, spiro blocks it at the reseptor sites( as well as other androgens).

Men on hairloss boards (though very few) have used this drug for hairloss only for years with no major problems an I believe them.

This makes it a good choice for me because it is highly likely to work and reasonably safe.


Anyone who can share experiences? Please.
Post Merge: March 01, 2010, 11:11:29 PM
A user of hairlosshelp posted his blood test results of sex hormones over the course of his use of spiro and fin. The results were not really not bad. I would post them but I don't feel like it right now.

[Asfsd4214]

Androgenetic alopecia is what I have. My hair follicals are sensitive to all androgens not just dihydrotestosterone. DHT is the most harmfull because it has 5 times the affinity to bind to the androgen reseptors in my hair folilcals vs. testosterone.
Finasteride and dutaseride are 5 alph reductase inhibitors. They prevent test from converting to dht via the 5ar enzyme. Test increases and the receptors are left unprotected and can upregulat to compensate for the drop in dht.
Spironolactone succesfully compeats for the dht reseptor sites as well as other androgens. Spiro decreases test levels significantly but not all together by far. So it is still reasonably safe for me to use.
These two drugs complement each other on the way they work. Fin reduces dht, spiro blocks it at the reseptor sites( as well as other androgens).

Men on hairloss boards (though very few) have used this drug for hairloss only for years with no major problems an I believe them.

This makes it a good choice for me because it is highly likely to work and reasonably safe.


Anyone who can share experiences? Please.
Post Merge: March 01, 2010, 11:11:29 PM
A user of hairlosshelp posted his blood test results of sex hormones over the course of his use of spiro and fin. The results were not really not bad. I would post them but I don't feel like it right now.

It's entirely possible you could take these drugs in the long term with side effects you can live with, however it's not good for your health to be hormone deficient, and your bone density would be a real concern.

But you need to see a doctor about it.

As to your question, the answer is pretty simple. If your androgen levels are low enough, which you can only find out with a blood test. Then no, you will not loose any more hair, and yes, you might get a degree of regrowth from affected areas (but then again, you also might not).

That's pretty much the situation.

I highly recommend you see a doctor, you are putting your health at risk more so than you need to be.

[Nicky]

I started thinking on the crown of my head. It was not really noticable to anyone else except for me and the hair dresser. I went to a dermatologist and he said it was thinning but I was in very early stages (Male pattern baldness), the hairs were getting thinner (most of my hair had a rough texture, the stuff on the crown was feeling smooth and thinner).

I have been on propecia about 5 months and spiro for about 3. In that time hair loss seems to have stopped. The hair on my crown seems a bit more fuller. I still think it is early days, but it does seem to have improved.

Hope this is useful info.

(I'm not recomending spiro either, especially without supervision, but it sounds like you got to do what you got to do and I believe  you are making an informed decision here.)

[Randi]

I recall reading somewhere that Spiro increases levels of LDL cholesterol (bad). If you have any measure of high LDL this might be one of the greatest contra-indicators for using this substance. Be careful-hormone use can be dangerous.

Randi

[negative]

Would I get more replies/anecdotes on the HRT forum?

[Starscrash]

Would I get more replies/anecdotes on the HRT forum?

Not to be rude, but I think you've gotten plenty of replies, they're just not the ones that you wanted.