Aesthetic Qualms

[Nyctophile]

I've been drifting more and more towards the label androgyne. At a tiny party I hosted yesterday. I bound my chest for the first time (with this awful cheap knockoff of ACE, but whatever) and it was kind of like coming home. I looked in the mirror: no boobs. And it was pretty great. I looked down, no boobs. And it was pretty great. It was really more of a contentment than an excitement. Like, oh, that's better.

And I really feel no desire to realign myself with "female." That holds no excitement for me, no appeal or desire. And yet, I still have my qualms.

For one, the boobs (again). I really do like them. They're nicely shaped and nicely coloured. They're fun to look at and they are good for warming things up. So yeah, I like them. Sometimes, (alright, pretty often) I wish they were gone. I fantasize about having a real binder. But I wouldn't want to get them removed. Not too long ago, I was actively proud of them. When I look in the mirror, I guess it's a disconnect. There's my boobs, and they're nice. But they'd be nicer on someone else. I'm not really sure what to make of it. Sometimes I love them, sometimes I wish they were gone. (I am sorry for talking about my boobs so much. D: )

And there's still the thing about the skirts. I like them. I enjoy having my legs free, I enjoy the aesthetic that skirts have, I like the variety and all that. I just don't like the idea "skirts=female." I sort of wish I was born male, so I could wear them as a gender transgression, instead of being torn between wanting to be perceived as androgynous and wanting to wear skirts. I've been thinking the solution would be to bind while wearing them. Maybe the flat chest would throw people off. But alas, I do not have a decent binder. I really want to get one, but I'm still living with my mother, and I'm nervous about her knowing I want/have one. (I mean, I think she's support me, but I want to be absolutely sure before I tell her anything.)

The last issue is that I just look so girly. Or I think I do. Maybe I don't, and it's just self-perception. I'll link up to a pair of pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48463692@N04/4439047384/#
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48463692@N04/4439000818/#

If you have any advice or comments, please share.

[Eva Marie]

Well, you have definitely found the group of maybe/never/sometimes. Welcome.

Pull up a chair and join in

[Sevan]

Boobs. Yep. Same feelings!!! Wow! Finally!!! (sorry...just so relieved to read what you write and feel like I could have written it..and know that I've written similar)
I'm going in for a boob reduction cuz mine aren't bindable at the moment. The feeling of "I like them, but maybe I'd like them better on someone else" is definitly confusing and I understand how confusing that can be.
Skirt love. Yep. Got that too!! lol...Actually as part of my coming out I've been insisting to people that I'm keeping the skirts and I refuse to see them as a "girl" item. lol. Which is true. Men of old times used to wear "unbifricated" clothing (ie: skirts..) men in other countrys wear long tunics, or kilts...there's no reason a skirt should be desidedly fem.
I want to get a kilt but haven't yet. I found some awesome (sounding) hemp fabric and a site that shows you how to fold and press a kilt. Seems easy enough. Especially as I know how to sew some...and can just sew the pressing in place so I don't have to press it everytime.

Ace bandages aren't a good idea long term. They do a sloppy job for one and they're bad for your ribs for two. I understand not wanting your mom to know about binders. There are other options that do a decent job. Frog bras I've heard good things about. Some use sports gaurds (which can be found at sports stores) which can be good enough for small breasted people.

I think you look rather andro already. The way you do your make up is rather decidedly fem (IMO) but your facial structure could go "fem boi" or "butch girl" just a matter of how you do it up. For sure.

[Nyctophile]

Oh, I'm so glad I found these forums. It's great in so many ways to know other people feel this way. :3
I am absolutely all for skirts becoming a gender-neutral item. I've been reading Sugarbutch a lot, and she talks about how a revolution in masculinity is needed, because it's so restricting right now, so hopefully, that will be happening in the near future. (Being Gothic helps. There are quite a few skirt-wearing boys on the scene.)
Have you seen the Utilikilt site? Oh, it makes me drool. How I want those things...

I think I will come out to mom in the near future. I have an appointment with my psychologist on Monday, so maybe after that... I'm at a D38, so they are not manageable. D: I tried on some of those stomach-binder-things they have, but it's just not good enough.

Oh, you make me so happy. I will probably start looking into more "masculine" ways to do eyeliner...

[Sevan]

Yay for happiness!! Yea...I'm a 38DDD so even though I have a proper binder and a frog bra...doesn't work. Well...it works, they're definitly flatter but they're definitly not FLAT. I'm getting them reduced down to like...B-C and I can't wait.

I'm told that different breast tissue types makes all the difference. So it's not just a matter of "Oh your a D cup? Yea...binding wont work" because it MAY...it all depends on...a great number of things.

In that same regard I'm actually worried I'll have the same problem after surgery because they'll be firmer so I'm worried they still won't flatten. However, the fact remains that they're rediculous, hard to find bras for, hurt my back, make it difficult to find tops that fit properly....I mean, it all ads up to..I'm getting the surgery. But I digress.

I think a more "manly" way to wear eyeliner is to go really thin. Like this: http://media.photobucket.com/image/manliner/t8tarlapsmustas/mozart16.jpg

Or really smokey like this: http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/storage/RussellBrand_897_18188102_0_0_12656_300.jpg

It's hard to take male styles and apply it to natal women I'm finding. Like...I WANT to wear eyeliner..but then I just get read as...a girl in eyeliner. Ya know? IDK. I'm working though my own stuff. lol

I'm TOTALLY familiar with Utilikilts!! I want one badly. They look very cool. However...their price is pretty...umm...not doable for me! Ouch!

[Nyctophile]

Ohh, that doesn't sound like fun.

I'd like to think it'll work pretty well... I guess I won't know until I get one.

I think I will try doing it a bit thinner. The second one just looks like he slept in it, to me. ><

Oh, I know. They're so expensive!

[Sevan]

You've got it nice and thin on the bottom, but it's pretty thick (seemingly) on the top. Maybe just the thin line on the bottom and leave the top alone all together? Though...gender aside...I like your dots! Very cool.

[Nyctophile]

I'm not sure I want to leave it alone on the top, but I will go thinner. I'm quite fond of my dots, as well. :3

[fluffy jorgen]

Scene kid types always manage to pull of the androgynous look, good on you. 

[tole]

looking at the 'manliner' examples, i think that one of differences is that the bottom lid is more emphasized than the top. maybe try playing around with where the emphasis is put, as well as thinning it out?

also, i quite like your hair. blue's such a great colour for hair...

[Nyctophile]

Good point. I'll try that.

I was raised with anime, so I've wanted blue hair since I was really little. It's great.

[Vyn]

I really like your style, and color sense!  You chose a very nice hair hue too, so vivid.  I also am an androgyne and had similar reactions to yours when dressing in-between expected genders.  That pleasant complacency instead of raging happiness type feeling.

I think combining a skirt with a bound top would give you a nice androgynous silhouette.  If you worry about it coming off as too feminine, perhaps some clunky men's shoes or hat could round it out? Also it would depend on what kind of skirt it was. I know some cisgendered men (straight too) that wear kilt skirts, but it isn't uncommon in these parts for people to try new things.  I was surprised at how masculine some of those skirts look, they even have carpenter seams, pockets and belts.

[Nyctophile]

Thank you. I was really excited to get my hair dyed blue, I really enjoy it.

Yes, I think I'd feel more comfortable wearing skirts if I was binding. I actually wear combat boots all the time, so there's no worry about footwear. (Actually, every pair of women's shoes I've owned has given me sores or blisters of some kind... ) I do have one or two skirts that come off as quite masculine, but I'd be just as likely to wear the nice flowy ones.
I find it works quite well to take a pair of men's pants and rip out the inseam, then sew it back together as a skirt. Although they have to be a size or two too big to work.

[Vyn]

It is a very nice shade of blue, and the shiny tones give it depth that most unnatural colors (by human standards anyway) lack.  That is a very smart idea with the re-sewing. I did the same with pants to give them wider legs and put colorful inserts into the sideseams. And if you have combat boots or a neutral to masculine top, I'd say you are good to go no matter what skirt you wear.  Much of pulling off a look is confidence, I'd say go for anything you personally like to wear, and if it shows that you are secure and happy, all the better. 

[Martin]

It's hard to take male styles and apply it to natal women I'm finding. Like...I WANT to wear eyeliner..but then I just get read as...a girl in eyeliner. Ya know? IDK. I'm working though my own stuff. lol

Yeah, I feel the same way about long hair. I love guys with long hair (or at least, the ones that pull it off well- sort of the Aragorn look) but since I am actually a girl (by most people's definition) with long hair I just look like a girl with long hair.

[Nyctophile]

Vyn: In real life, it actually has a fair bit of green, as well, since we couldn't bleach it out all the way. (I had it dyed black before.) So yeah, I was expecting a flat colour, but I was pleasantly surprised. Yeah, I definitely think that an outfit like my Sisters of Mercy shirt with a flowy skirt and combat boots would look so much better with a binder... I get money at the end of the month, so I don't have to wait much longer.

I've been working a lot on physical confidence, and more masculine body language. Generally just taking up more space with my body, I guess. It's amazing how much acting more confidently can make you feel more confident. I've heard several times that "attractive" is not a physical image, but a state of mind, and I think there's something to that.

Jacky: I totally understand that. I almost feel like when I'm wearing makeup and pretty things, that's me expressing my masculine side. My girl side is really butch. But no one reads me that way. xD Well, that would be a bit much to ask for. But I really think that the concept of masculinity needs a re-imagining, the same way femininity has had through feminism.

[Nyctophile]

I actually got that concept from the Sugarbutch Chronicles, but I totally agree with it. :3

[Martin]

This.

Yeah, completely true. Women can more or less dress like men, but a guy puts on a skirt and everyone freaks.

[Android]

I feel the same way >.<
I like my body.  But I also would like to have a boy's body. 
Also the thing about wishing you were a boy so you could were skirts as a gender transition...same...somedays I feel like an MtF in a female body...
Things would be so much easier if I had three bodies...one boy, one girl, and one intersexed & completely androgynous... 

[Nyctophile]

Ahhh, wouldn't it be nice if we could switch our bodies with our moods...