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Cost shouldn't stop us! Whats the answer? A transgender commune?

Started by Robin., April 06, 2010, 06:12:18 PM

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Oriah

Coming from someone who's lived communally, both before and after starting transition, it will work, but inevitably will have problems or fall apart when the numbers get above 10-15.


I don't see how getting a ton of people who require expensive medicines and expensive surgeries is going to make it any easier to get them....
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Amazon D

Quote from: Oriah on August 03, 2012, 04:46:27 PM
Coming from someone who's lived communally, both before and after starting transition, it will work, but inevitably will have problems or fall apart when the numbers get above 10-15.


I don't see how getting a ton of people who require expensive medicines and expensive surgeries is going to make it any easier to get them....

Thats not my idea. Mine is just for older and disabled and unemployed trans to share a place to live decently. The unemployed will be employed by those elderly and disabled with incomes from their situations.
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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justmeinoz

The Tasmanian Government is basically broke so I think we could pass the hat around and make an offer for the place.   :laugh:   

Cindy could offer cheap floggings as a fund raiser.  ;D

Karen.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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patstar

Quote from: Robin. on April 06, 2010, 06:12:18 PM

There is a big problem, one of many but perhaps the largest, and that is the costs of transition. Imagine how nice it would be if you didn't have to go into debt. If you didn't have to wait years after the OK to get the results. Some of us have the money or enough but some of us don't, some have none, others barely enough. And this is a big factor. Because it is costly many spend the rest of there lifes in depression having given up hope, others struggle for happyness due to debts....

So whats the solution?

There are enough of us out there and plenty of bright minds perhaps there is a solution we can find and work to.

OK...Thats my attempt at an inspirational speech...more like a insperational memo maybe...  ;D

Anyways lets think about this together what are solutions to this problem, and not just for an individual but for the community as a whole.

Are there lawyers amongst us or lawyers friendly to our people, to our cause, that could help us fight the system that allows insurance to excllude us?

Perhaps we could develop our own insurance company only for the transgenders! maybe there are some, if so can we help!

Maybe we could start up half-way-houses for those going through transition. That or some sort of system that can help people find work while transitioning. A system maybe that in itself produces work for only transgender people. A system that connects us transgender people even (maybe we could use a Transbook, or TransSpace to help) A system that connects to people so that people that can help can help and people that need help can get help.



Are there already any activist groups out there that are only transgender oriented?

If not lets start one, I'm for it, I got some time, and i got somewhat of a brain. I need to put it to use doing some activistish stuff.

Thank you Robin; I think that you've brought up a potentially monumental subject.  I sure that I'm even understating when I say there certainly is a need for what you propose.  Can the right people take this idea serious enough to at least begin something here?

Even more important than finding the necessary funding for especially a large-scale endeavor in this area is finding the right person(s) to head it.  What is required here is a true, resourceful, visionary—locating this individual or group of people would go a good way toward such a project having the chance of being a large scale success, and ensuring that it would not end up a tacky, messy, embarrassing failure like the one that has been referred to here a few times.

No, this program (etc.) need NOT be totally or widely inclusive.  However, in my opinion, an absence of the prejudice, which I've observed in the transgender community, would be most progressive.

It is my belief that ours could be at least one of the major social movements of the early part of this century.  Do we have the minds and resources to bring it off?  Time will tell. 
Well wishes to all. Patrice
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Amazon D

Transitioning the body does not meet the true needs of our people. Yes it can help people but understanding that we are spiritual beings and we knew or know what we are even before we did one thing. It is that understanding that we need to transcend. My hope is for us to realize way past the superficiality of the exterior body. I am thinking a commune that helps our poor , disabled and elederly. Then from there we can work as one to resolve further issues. Transitioning the body only makes us adjust to societies idea of what gender is for people. We need to transition our bodies hormonal issues so we can get closer to the spirituality of who we are spiritually. Once we have a commune of people caring and sharing for one another and knocking out the hormonal drives we have then we can get to the real business of helping one another to be truly fulfilled. So yes we can help some with the superficiality but if they coose to go and leave us they were never for us. They are lost souls seeking that which will never fulfill them.

I am 14 yrs post op and almost 8 yrs post superficiality. I am celibate and spiritual and i listen to the truth that is us and not the truth that is laid on us by society which has pumped our bodies full with hormones from foods that have distorted our true selves. I can only hope that people here who are past transitioning and eat healthy foods with no hormonal products in them will understand that which i say.

We are transgender people and we knew what we know even before we did one thing. Then so many get all hung up on the superficial and they loose connection to that previous spiritual understanding. Gender is between the ears not the legs.. However hormones that have been placed in our food chains distort the true reality of that saying.

Let us start with caring for our elderly, disabled and poor as they worry not for the superficial as much as those who are young and from wealth. Those will never be a part of this that i describe because they are sold / bought by their positions in life..
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Cindy Stephens

There are already a number of gay exclusive retirement communities designed specifically to avoid running into a few "hater" types.  They tend to be high amenity, well designed places that are EXPENSIVE to get into and on a monthly maintenance basis.  Some retirement places develop small cliques that try to enforce conformity on everyone.  Here in Tamp area we have Timber pines (8000 residents) and The Villiages (80,000 residents) of Adult Active environments.  Demand is there for exclusive, nonthreatening environments to retire in.  I believe both places have varieties of living from single family to condo types. 

A smaller community could incorporate as a profitable business, hire the residents, and provide health insurance as a perk of employment.  Something like, "The Good Fairies of Tampa Bay,"  Private living, public name branding.  Then provide outside services to community, maybe run an on site gay bar / restaraunt, etc.  15/20 units lived in permanently, 10/15 rentals.  Winter visitors pay dearly.  If you have it close to tampa, farmers markets are very hot, and growing heritage fruits/veges may be profitable.  It is far cheaper to provide one swimming pool, one major landscaped area etc. then to have the typical suburban sprawl. 

Unfortunately, you noticed that I didn't speak of poor people.  That is a nice, noble idea.  If I had more than enough for myself, I wouldn't mind donating.  I am still in the stage where providing for my wife and myself is of high importance.  If helping someone can be worked into the profit making scheme, then fine, but going broke helps no one.  I have a background in business ventures (I have an accounting degree as well as one in construction) and know just how easy it is for someone to go broke.  I believe that you really have to look at it as a business, know the market, and do the most that you can with what are probably limited resources.  Look for highest and best uses.   

I haven't even touched what kind of rules to have.  What if one resident likes to bring home a half dozen "rough trade" types on Saturday night for a little PARTY?  Cars with boom boxes entering and leaving all night?  Thanks, but I'll pass.  What if someone wants to leave, who can buy their shares? first refusals?  It ain't easy, simple, or even agreeable to some to enforce some sort of rules, based on voting or original documents.  But rules are what allow us to not have to kill each other.  Check out Cohousing.org for ideas on the issues.  It is easy to do crap, hard to do stuff right. 

There are diverse communities set up in America that have just people developing a tract of land together with perhaps a community house for weekly get togethers to genuine Socialistic business arraingments.   You might check out, also, the history of the Amana corporation or Unida Corp both very successful, socialistic companies (originally) that made their socialist owners rich.  I'm not saying that that should be the goal, just that Americans have been brainwashed to believe that such ideas have "never worked."  They have, and are now. 

Sorry if this is a little bit scatter shot.  There is just so much territory that would need to be covered to have any meeting of the minds, let alone everyone agreeing to it.  But isn't that often the difference between "hoping, dreams, wouldn't it be nice?" and successful creating a new reality, no matter how small and limited.

   
   
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Amazon D

The poor youth could help the elderly and disabled and share in their incomes which many times they get government assistence such as SSI or SS or retirement.
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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patstar

Quote from: Amazon D on August 05, 2012, 07:28:46 AM
Transitioning the body does not meet the true needs of our people. Yes it can help people but understanding that we are spiritual beings and we knew or know what we are even before we did one thing. It is that understanding that we need to transcend. My hope is for us to realize way past the superficiality of the exterior body. I am thinking a commune that helps our poor , disabled and elederly. Then from there we can work as one to resolve further issues. Transitioning the body only makes us adjust to societies idea of what gender is for people. We need to transition our bodies hormonal issues so we can get closer to the spirituality of who we are spiritually. Once we have a commune of people caring and sharing for one another and knocking out the hormonal drives we have then we can get to the real business of helping one another to be truly fulfilled. So yes we can help some with the superficiality but if they coose to go and leave us they were never for us. They are lost souls seeking that which will never fulfill them.

I am 14 yrs post op and almost 8 yrs post superficiality. I am celibate and spiritual and i listen to the truth that is us and not the truth that is laid on us by society which has pumped our bodies full with hormones from foods that have distorted our true selves. I can only hope that people here who are past transitioning and eat healthy foods with no hormonal products in them will understand that which i say.

We are transgender people and we knew what we know even before we did one thing. Then so many get all hung up on the superficial and they loose connection to that previous spiritual understanding. Gender is between the ears not the legs.. However hormones that have been placed in our food chains distort the true reality of that saying.

Let us start with caring for our elderly, disabled and poor as they worry not for the superficial as much as those who are young and from wealth. Those will never be a part of this that i describe because they are sold / bought by their positions in life..

Well, I am certainly NOT ultimately arguing against what you say.  I furthermore illustrate my comprehension of your contention by stating that I practice meditation for more than an hour every day and fully understand the concept of (and for the most part, believe in) a collective supreme being.  Nonetheless, such wonderful spiritual ideals are far better applied to the human species as a whole.

Where disadvantaged minorities are involved (dare I draw an analogy to African Americans in the early, or at least mid-way, part of the last century) something more tangible and immediate is needed.

Also, from someone who has little sex drive, can we please NOT disavow the physical needs that most of us have as long as we're in this world?  Sure, most notions of necessary and appropriate sexual relations likely are the construct of the less evolved; but what of genuine physical warmth and gentle intimacy?

I (and I believe most people) cannot live completely in my own mind—nor do I wish to do so.

No offence, honestly, but can we please not let such hard to obtain nice ideals take us off track of what needs to—and just might—be done in the real world.
Well wishes to all. Patrice
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Cindy Stephens

Amazon D.

I don't disagree that that that could work, partially.  Most TG spectrum people have lived lives with less income than most and therefore will receive less (on average) in retirement.  I don't envision my retirement to be one of crushing poverty.  I want to be "self-actualizing" as Maslow put it.  I am not high end or high maintenance either.  I have found that most people who have the money to move, make decisions, and lifestyle changes often have a higher income and educational level.  They need a good solid
business plan.  "Move here and share you money with poor people.' doesn't seem like a rallying cry that sells.  It may well be an excellent management technique, a subtle selling strategy when a project is rolling, but not, perhaps as the basis of a good business plan.  If you are going to use any financing, they would want to see that.  I hope I don't come across as too profit oriented.  I would just like to develop some self supporting system.
   
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Amazon D

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on August 06, 2012, 09:56:08 AM
Amazon D.

I don't disagree that that that could work, partially.  Most TG spectrum people have lived lives with less income than most and therefore will receive less (on average) in retirement.  I don't envision my retirement to be one of crushing poverty.  I want to be "self-actualizing" as Maslow put it.  I am not high end or high maintenance either.  I have found that most people who have the money to move, make decisions, and lifestyle changes often have a higher income and educational level.  They need a good solid
business plan.  "Move here and share you money with poor people.' doesn't seem like a rallying cry that sells.  It may well be an excellent management technique, a subtle selling strategy when a project is rolling, but not, perhaps as the basis of a good business plan.  If you are going to use any financing, they would want to see that.  I hope I don't come across as too profit oriented.  I would just like to develop some self supporting system.


well our youth need jobs and experience. We who are older with incomes can offer them a safe place and our experiences too boot. Many of us who are elderly or disabled would be treated better by our youth who might more easily respect us over the regular public out there. Thats what i would think is so obvious.
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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patstar

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on August 06, 2012, 09:56:08 AM
Amazon D.

I don't disagree that that that could work, partially.  Most TG spectrum people have lived lives with less income than most and therefore will receive less (on average) in retirement.  I don't envision my retirement to be one of crushing poverty.  I want to be "self-actualizing" as Maslow put it.  I am not high end or high maintenance either.  I have found that most people who have the money to move, make decisions, and lifestyle changes often have a higher income and educational level.  They need a good solid
business plan.  "Move here and share you money with poor people.' doesn't seem like a rallying cry that sells.  It may well be an excellent management technique, a subtle selling strategy when a project is rolling, but not, perhaps as the basis of a good business plan.  If you are going to use any financing, they would want to see that.  I hope I don't come across as too profit oriented.  I would just like to develop some self supporting system.


Well, yes that's it: a solid business plan would/should be at the foundation of any workable strategy.  "Move here and share you money with poor people" not only is lacking in sales appeal but sounds too much like socialism. 

Of course, it's not easy.  However, given the educational and affluence (don't take it the wrong way, but I'll also add skill and/or talent) level of the transgender community relative to most other minorities, someone in these circles most have some notion of a business/program model that would be at least self-sustaining, and possibly entirely profitable.  This would provide for all of our sisters and brothers in need, including the elderly—whose life experience and wisdom is an unused resource in Western society as a whole.

Again I say what is required here is a true: visionary(s)—among whose abilities is one to unite various factions.  Such individuals come along more often than most would guess.
Well wishes to all. Patrice
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Amazon D

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#71
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I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Amazon D

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#72
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I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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peky

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Amazon D

Quote from: peky on February 02, 2013, 11:38:59 AM
16 acres it too little to be an agri viable farm....

huh ??? its enough to handle a group of say 20 with food and meat and lumber etc etc 
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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peky

Quote from: Amazon D on February 02, 2013, 12:55:10 PM
huh ??? its enough to handle a group of say 20 with food and meat and lumber etc etc

of course,  if all you want is to subsist
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Amazon D

works for me.. i spent many many yrs working for society now its time to enjoy life with a few friends and die old .. very very old
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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spacial

Quote from: peky on February 02, 2013, 12:59:51 PM
of course,  if all you want is to subsist

I'm not quite sure what you think you will be doing there. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be critical, but even I picked up the lifestyle on offer here.

Frankly, if I were younger and available, I'd be there in a flash. I've seen photos of Amazon's existing place and apart from the bathroom  :laugh: it looks idylic.

I suppose Americans want other things, but for me, getting out of the rat race would seem to be priority one!
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peky

Here is from people who are doing it, a few facts before you sale your house



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spacial

Quote from: peky on February 02, 2013, 07:18:29 PM
Here is from people who are doing it, a few facts before you sale your house

peky.

Did you listen to the video?

They said that with a basic diet, one person could live off between 3/4 to 1.5 acres. That's actually quite a good standard when we remember that for several thousand years, people have been living from farming on much smaller fields and without any assistance from such modern notions as fertiliser, nutrition and such.

Now with 6 acres vegetable, 10 acres grazing and 50 acres for wood, I should think a small family could live quite well and have enough to sell surplus for money.

I have no idea what the holiday situation is in that part of the world, but with good preparation and marketing, a decent toilet for a start, holiday renting could make a considerable amount.

But, and here's the down side,  WORK. You would need to work hard to get that.

Edit, removed some silly sarcasm. Really sorry, I just didn't WORK hard enough to resist.

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