How am I passing

[MissLiliana]

I have not started HRT or hair removal yet. Any advice is appreciated Im wearing my breastforms in the pics...

Update:

The new me for those to lazy to find my new post 

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9725/52051105.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2725/69023830.jpg

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4613/49409100.jpg

[casorce]

My 10cents:
Your hair is the wrong colour for your skin, it's washing you out and making you look flat, while drawing attention to your blemishes. A lighter colour will help reduce the contrast between your skin and hair. A more natural foundation would help as well, though I gather you're going for the Goth look overall, so you may not wish to change your makeup or hair.
Your face has great potential though. Try smiling, it's one of the most feminising thing anyone can do for their face.

[kyril]

First of all, I'm very concerned about your arms - they are far too skinny. Not only do they look unhealthy, they detract from your passability by drawing attention to your physique; girls with arms that skinny simply don't have the curves that you have with the breastforms and hip padding. I know it's probably tempting to restrict your diet in order to prevent gaining muscle mass, but if that's what you're doing, you've gone way too far.

Secondly, your makeup is the wrong shade, even if you're going for a Goth look. That shade doesn't look good on anyone (despite the number of young women who try it). Try something a little warmer and more translucent, with some subtle colour variations (blush, bronzer, even just slightly darker powder) that accentuate your cheeks. Also consider something a little different around the eyes - a lighter hand with the eyeliner, and maybe different widths across top and bottom, and a more elongated shape. You could probably also do more with your eyebrows.

You have features and a style that could be completely passable, but you're not making the most of them.

[MissLiliana]

Thanks... I don't try to restrict my weight at all. I eat junk and drink plenty of soda.. I just cant seem to gain any weight no matter what I do, as far as my hair goes that's my natural color, I plan to get some new makeup. at least some new lipstick that isn't black, I was thinking a dark red. And the foundation I use is the middle shade I think, I might buy the warmer one and see how it goes.

[Megan]

I'll tell you what, if I saw you in a grocery store, I'll immediately recognize you as a transvestite; not even close enough to look like a woman. I'll then look at your fashion and think that you're a brave soul to even walk out the door to the cruel world.

Sorry but you really would need hormones...

[kyril]

Yeah, the middle shade in most drugstore brands is the troublesome one. If you look at the shade, it seems about right for your average fair-skinned person, and most girls (especially with any facial redness or acne scarring) reach for it first, but when actually applied to skin it has an odd and unnatural warm pink-ish tone. Most fair skin is really a light yellow-beige with cool pink spots and undertones. And it's the lighter, warmer areas you want to match with the foundation; if you want to add the pink back in after, you can do that with blush in the right spots.

(Yes, I know, I know too much about this stuff for a boy...I'm practicing for the 'gay boyfriend' role, ok?)

And remember that blush, bronzer, mineral powder, or some other upper layer always needs to go over your foundation. That's why it's called foundation - it's just a base coat to even out the colour of the "canvas" you'll be painting. You don't present a blank canvas. Look at someone with great skin who goes out with no makeup - her skin won't be all the same colour, it'll have pink spots in the hollow of the cheeks and a slightly darker colour in spots where she gets a bit more sun like the bridge of the nose and the top of the cheekbones. That's the effect you're going for. It can (should) be really subtle, but it needs to be there.

As far as your weight...your current build would be of concern on a teenage guy, but will set off major giant alarm bells in people's minds when they begin to read you as a girl. Hormones should help you develop some subcutaneous fat, but honestly, I think your weight is of medical concern and you ought to talk to a doctor. If you're not deliberately restricting calories, then you may either have an endocrine disorder or perhaps just not be eating enough because of depression/anxiety/not being sensitive to your body's hunger cues. Just because you eat junk doesn't necessarily mean you're eating enough of it. With no hormones you're feeding what amounts to a young male body, and you can't feed it like a girl's, but that may be what your brain is trying to do.

[Autumn]

Get a haircut. No, really.

I had nothing but straight long hair my whole life. I finally went to the girl who does my brows (hurray english speaking salons) and told her to do whatever she wanted to with my hair, just get rid of it and make me sexy. That makes a stylist wet, when they have a large, open canvas.

A few weeks later I decided it was still too long, and had her go with the nuclear option and give me bangs and even shorter hair.

I really love it.

You don't have to hack off your hair, but, that hair cut does not work for your face at all. You need layers to frame the face and you need bangs for the forehead (and more shaped brows, but that's another matter.)

It feels violating, coming from a male life, especially one with a gender disorder, to cut your hair. Hair is the strongest and most accepted symbol of femininity in men, something held onto. Also, considering how many lose their hair, it's traumatic, especially for MTF. But less can be a lot more. The 'curtain' as my stylist said, just kind of hangs there. And with it hanging down in front of your ears, it gives you a long, male face.

Of course, a flat out girl's haircut where you have to style your bangs and maybe some other parts of it (I'm still playing around with hot curling and some product) may draw attention and ire. But it will help tremendously.

Learn makeup slowly. Use browns and bronzes instead of blacks to start with. Eye makeup actually involves coloring the lid, the crease, and the bone above (and maybe your cat's eyes and using a primer before hand) and liner and curling your lashes and mascara (be sure to curl before you do anything else.) It's not typically just *block of black* unless you are going for a marilyn manson look, but I imagine your ultimate goal is not.

My personal philosophy when I began exploring makeup was that when I sucked at it, I looked a LOT worse than not wearing it. Something about poorly done makeup screams transvestite.

Also you may try to improve your overall skin health with cleansing/exfoliating/toning/moisturizing, if you don't already have a strict skin care system. When you go on E, your skin will dry out, which will end most of the acne (as long as you change your pillow case.... *grumble, 4 scars from that...*) but require even more moisture.

Also be sure you thoroughly clean and moisturize after wearing makeup. Eye makeup remover, if you don't have it, is gentle and awesome, and makeup remover wipes are fantastic too. And you can always add more, it's much harder to remove, so start light with the makeup.

I don't even try eye liner, still, honestly, because I'm a moron when it comes to it and I don't want to embarrass myself.

[Nigella]

Hi, I hope you will not be offended but you did ask. I agree with most of what has been said. You need a good hair style that will suit your facial features, ditch your current lipstick it does not suit you, I wear red. Go for more feminine clothing. Even if you like the Goth look. I have Goth clothing as well but its a black skirt with Gothic styling to the rear, a black trailered jacket and black top female cut with black neck band, etc. Look on the internet to get the idea, try wikipedia. I go for the Victorian type Goth look and I love my skirt because its like Victorian that comes out at the back with details and lace.

Hope that helps

Stardust

   

[lilacwoman]

black clothes are for men although some women can look pretty good in them but not a MtF...
forget the comment about thin arms...most slim girl have nice slim arms.
if and when you start hormones you'll find you skin condition get much better and your shape will alter to some degree.
chop off that hair or stop it looking like a punk rockers..
throw out the black eyes and lips and go medium pink lips and gold or brown eyes.
put a skirt and girlie top on to show us a girl.

[shanetastic]

Hi, I hope you will not be offended but you did ask. I agree with most of what has been said. You need a good hair style that will suit your facial features, ditch your current lipstick it does not suit you, I wear red. Go for more feminine clothing. Even if you like the Goth look. I have Goth clothing as well but its a black skirt with Gothic styling to the rear, a black trailered jacket and black top female cut with black neck band, etc. Look on the internet to get the idea, try wikipedia. I go for the Victorian type Goth look and I love my skirt because its like Victorian that comes out at the back with details and lace.

Hope that helps

Stardust

   

I agree with a lot that's been said by stardust.

But first off, you're pre hormones so I mean you do have some good features to work with.  So don't freak out and I'm sure with some minor little tweaks things can go a lot easier for you. 

I bet if you find a place that does like makeover stuff and you get a hairstyle idea from the person and some makeuo and clothing ideas that a LOT can change.  But also, don't sacrifice who you are to conform.  If you like wearing the black stuff then go for it.  No one is here to tell you otherwise.

[Janet_Girl]

I agree with what most have said.  Makeup, go more neutral.  Lighten up you look.  Hair, go for a ,ore feminine look.

Don't worry about looking skinny, because I am also slim.

[MsFierce]

wow some of you girls are so blunt honest . (reminds self NEVER do a post like this lol).


I think you look fine. Your pre-HRT and you got something to work with. I agree with the hair and make-up. Your clothes aren't exactly Female either. you got that Androg thing going on now.

I would really see a doctor and find out why you can't gain any weight. Your really skinny and your arms draw people right to your hands and thats not a good thing for a MTF.

[shanetastic]

wow some of you girls are so blunt honest . (reminds self NEVER do a post like this lol).


I think you look fine. Your pre-HRT and you got something to work with. I agree with the hair and make-up. Your clothes aren't exactly Female either. you got that Androg thing going on now.

I would really see a doctor and find out why you can't gain any weight. Your really skinny and your arms draw people right to your hands and thats not a good thing for a MTF.

If no one is honest how do you know what to work on :]

[MsFierce]

If no one is honest how do you know what to work on :]

I agree with that. I been to other sites where everyone wouldn't do that.

[Nigella]

black clothes are for men although some women can look pretty good in them but not a MtF...

Sorry lilacwoman I have to disagree, I wear the black Victorian Goth with black nail polish, dark eye shadow, I don't do the real black stuff around the eyes and I use red lip stick instead. I can walk down the main street no probs, walk past children and groups of teenagers not even a glance or s->-bleeped-<- and happily converse with whoever and no probs.

You can wear stuff that suits your build. Its finding the style that counts to pull it off. So if you like wearing black Goth, wear black Goth but maybe a different style of Goth.

Take care,

Stardust

[rejennyrated]

Sorry lilacwoman I have to disagree, I wear the black Victorian Goth with black nail polish, dark eye shadow, I don't do the real black stuff around the eyes and I use red lip stick instead. I can walk down the main street no probs, walk past children and groups of teenagers not even a glance or s->-bleeped-<- and happily converse with whoever and no probs.

You can wear stuff that suits your build. Its finding the style that counts to pull it off. So if you like wearing black Goth, wear black Goth but maybe a different style of Goth.

Take care,

Stardust

Totally agree. Black works ok for me too. Although not in a goth way...

I think the answer is that actually whilst people can give you advice on things to improve, you alone will really know whether you pass or not, because at least in part passing is not about looks alone it's about how you carry yourself.

You find out that you pass, for example, when you can repeatedly walk through groups of teenagers who are known to be regularly drunken and disruptive without attracting comment.

You pass when postop you can go to a hardline lesbian club and come out without anyone having rumbled you or complained at your presence. Or perhaps, as happened to one of the other postop girls on here a few weeks back, the man you have just slept with worries that you might get pregnant.

You pass when you can give talks on national radio, and public lectures in provincial halls and theatres all around a region without anyone questioning your gender based on either your looks or your voice.

All of the things I mention I have done. Yet I am not some ultra convincing perfect facsimilie of femininity with flawless style and fashion sense. I am living proof that they can be done even by someone who does not look stunning. I rarely wear makeup, my style is unconventional and all my own, I have had no plastic surgery beyond SRS. Yet evidently I do pass. So all that is really needed is to have looks which blend in, do not stand out as overly out of place, and have the right amount of self belief.

Bottom line you'll know it when you get it. Worry more about how you feel inside, and less about what others may think, because you must find out what works for you.

[gothique11]

As for my suggestions:

- HRT will make a huge difference. And, of course, laser hair removal. It will take time, so be patient and don't give up hope. Don't put on too big of a load or expectation, especially in the first year -- you don't wanna end up depressed and giving up on yourself. Keep your chin up, and keep going. Things get better over time.

- If you're gonna do the goth/metal look, you're gonna have to do something with that make up and know how to apply it in a feminine way (the liner under your eyes, for example, is exaggerating how deep your eyes are and in turn exaggerates your brow). Ditch the black lip stick, 'cause that just screams noob. Goth is more than just clothing and make up, btw. I've been part of the scene for a very long time. Start going to some punk, goth, industrial/EBM, and metal clubs or shows. Get some ideas, but be yourself and original. Get to know the subculture -- it's wonderful and in the goth scene can be very supportive. Personally, I think the goth scene is more supportive than the metal and punk scene (my opinion). Make up, androgyny, and so on are a huge part of the goth scene. Gender isn't much of an issue with most goth scenes. Being goth is about expressing yourself, your creativity, and who you are (and also accepting those around you). (It's a misconception that it's about being "sad").

[Naturally Blonde]

Sorry lilacwoman I have to disagree, I wear the black Victorian Goth with black nail polish, dark eye shadow, I don't do the real black stuff around the eyes and I use red lip stick instead. I can walk down the main street no probs, walk past children and groups of teenagers not even a glance or s->-bleeped-<- and happily converse with whoever and no probs.

You can wear stuff that suits your build. Its finding the style that counts to pull it off. So if you like wearing black Goth, wear black Goth but maybe a different style of Goth.

Take care,

Stardust

I agree, black can hide a multitude of things and isn't a necessarily a male colour. But I think clothes is the least important thing in the transitional journey. If you look female, you will always look female no matter what you wear. I think in so many cases a male facial bone structure is the biggest problem male to females face.
 

[Julie Marie]

I didn't read the other opinions so as not to be influenced by them...  Criticism is intended to be constructive.

First off, you have some good female qualities - you are slender, you have a good head of hair and it's long.  You don't have a large chest wall or broad shoulders.  Nor do you have male musculature.  As for the pics:

Pic 1 - I thought of Marylin Manson.  Dark hair, white face, black rings around the eyes.  Not passable as female.
Pics 2&4: ditto.
Pic 3 - There's a female quality to your pose with just a hint of a smile.  You need to smile more.
Pic 5 accentuates your slender waist and upper body.  Both pluses.

As for suggestions...
If you were full time I'd say get thyself to a hair salon!  Immediately!  Guys who grow their hair long typically don't take care of it.  It gets frayed at the ends and it looks dried out and frizzy.  But you can always go to a salon and ask them to clean it up, trim the split ends, condition it and make recommendations about how to keep your hair looking great (you don't have to say pretty but you can hint at it  ).  If you can color it or, if you're ready, highlight it, that would make a HUGE difference!

Your makeup is too washed out.  You need color, and not black!  Use a foundation that gives you a bit of a tan, but not too much.  Use a lighter color on the neck and blend it up to the jaw line.  That way you won't have a ring around your neck.  Apply some blush on the cheeks, the tip of the nose, a touch on the chin and lightly across the top of your forehead. 

When you use eyeliner, try using a very thin, flat topped brush
(like this:   )
Apply dark eye shadow (not eyeliner) thinly at the base of the lashes.  Do the top completely.  On the lower lid start at the center of your eye and work to the outer end.  Don't do the inside. 

You will need black mascara because of the color of your hair.  Make sure the outer lashes are as long as you can get them.  It widens the eyes.  Choose a lighter eye shadow to decrease the depth (inset) of your eyes.  It looks like you can use your natural lip shape for lipstick - no need to color "outside the lines".  Stay away from dark lip colors, unless it's for more formal or evening wear.  Pinks are probably the best choice, given your skin color.

As for your hair right now, if you don't get it styled, try to put some curl into it.  An easy way is to wash it, condition it then apply a styling cream while still damp.  (I love the Halo brand!)  Comb it through your hair making sure not to break the strands.  Get a good detangling comb if you don't have one and work from the ends, up. 

Use Velcro rollers to set it.

They are easy to use, but since your hair is so thick, you'll need a lot.  You'll have to comb it out in small sections so as not to have too much hair on a roller.  Roll it in the direction you want the curl to go.  I'd say underneath for the bottom and towards the face around it, so it wraps your face.  Make sure you hold your hair straight out, perpendicular to your scalp, before you begin rolling it.  In front you want to make sure you do that so it will provide some lift.

Next,  blow dry it with the setting on hot and when it's dry either let it cool naturally or use the blower with no heat to cool it.  It needs to cool completely to hold the curl.

It seems like a lot of work but if you decide to do it, take some pics and post them.

[Pippa]

I presume you are trying to go for a goth look.   Unfortunately, it does you no favours.   The lipstick and eye shadow is far too dark and the foundation is far too white.  You look like a male goth, not female.   Your hair also needs attention.

Get a good skin care regime, get a good cleanser, toner ad moisturise.  Get a good medicated exfoliator for spots and breakouts   Your hair length is fine but it needs styled and some of the weight taken out of it.   Get a more natural foundation that matches your skin tone.   Don't go for dark brown or black eye make up.  If you want a goth look go for dark pinks or purples.  Buy a book on make up and experiment with what suits you.  I tend to go for pink or nude lip colour and wear light natural eye make up.   I have deep set eyes so I don't go for the smoky eyed look as it recedes my eyes further and I look like I have been in a fight.

With make up it is very much, 'less is more' or more accurately, the appearance of less is more 

Also, look at other girl's for fashion tips and dress to match your body shape.   Any gender wears a t shirt and jeans look for more feminine tops or dresses but don't go too frilly.   I don't suit big or busy patterns so I tend to go for blocks of colour.  If you want to wear black, don't wear it from head to foot. Highlight it with colour such as red or pink to break up the gloom.

We are all the same at the start, fumbling around to find our look.   After twenty years I am finally more comfortable with mine but I am still looking to improve it.   Keep going, you will get there eventually.