The Plus and Minus of HRT

[Janet_Girl]

Unfortunately for Naturally Blonde, she has not had any luck with HRT.  I feel bad for her after all these years.  But after 2 years and at 56 I have had good results

[Asfsd4214]

Like most biological things, HRT results can be plotted out as a bell curve. The majority of people have average-to-good results. A very few people have awful results. A very few people have utterly amazing results.

If you landed in the ->-bleeped-<-ty end of the bell curve, that sure sucks, but it doesn't invalidate the rest of us.

True, also the odds are significantly different depending on age.

In my experience the line tends to be about in your 30s where the odds start to shift against your favor. But there's always exceptions.

[andream]

I agree with you, it's constant whining and moaning.

I have noticed this too, but I think instead of berating her, perhaps it would be nice to see if there are any ways to help.

There are many things one can do to mix things up when it comes to HRT, even with orals. I even think stopping for a couple of months, sticking only with anti-androgens, and then starting again might have the benefit of clearing out the receptors, reducing SHBG levels, and thus re-priming the body for estrogen receptivity.

I have read Naturally Blonde has been using orals, and perhaps patches too (although I don't remember this clearly). Changing to a different medium like injectables or pellets may be helpful. If these aren't available, combing oral types may help as well. I experienced greater itching in my breasts when I combined oral Estradiol Valerate with oral 17b estradiol, whereas prior to that I was using the equivalent dosage of oral 17b estradiol alone. Also, oral use is less efficient in that it is metabolized into a higher proportion of estrone as opposed to the more powerful estradiol, whereas direct applications such as injections and pellets will yield a higher proportion of estradiol in the blood, which is far more feminizing.

What about your serum hormone levels? Do you get your hormone levels checked regularly? If not, then perhaps you should. Getting them into female range makes a huge difference. 800 to 1500 pmol/l is a desirable level to be at as 1500 is the top of the range for 15-17 year old girls.

Have you had an orchiectomy or SRS yet Naturally Blonde? If not, then this would help too, wouldn't it?

Have you tried introducing a progesterone or progestin into your regime? Although this may not improve femininity, it does assist in the development of fuller breasts, which is a definite plus. Progesterone also helps you to sleep, which ties in with something I talk about later here (more sleep = more growth hormone = greater development).

Have you tried changing your diet? I naturally eat a low calorie diet - approx 1400 cals a day - but I do have pig-out days, and the morning after those high calorie days I feel particularly feminine, and my breasts also hurt more. Mixing up your diet, experimenting with different foods, will help. From your face pic you look skinny, so I wonder if the inclusion of 100ml of uncooked extra virgin olive oil a day might help with your development, as well as rounding out your face. This would give you about 1000 extra calories a day, provide you with the health benefits of added omega 3s and omega 6s, and also develop into the desirable subcutaneous fat, as opposed to unhealthy visceral fats.

Have you tried vitamin supplementation? Multi-B vitamins, I have read, can have a beneficial impact on hormones receptivity.

You could also try reducing your SHBG levels, thereby increasing the amount of unbound, free estradiol in your system. Herbs like stinging nettle root contribute to SHBG reduction, and so does increasing your testosterone levels, although I don't think you want to do that.

You could also think of ways to increase you growth hormone levels - growth hormone aids in the development of your cells. Getting more sleep is the best way to do this, but supplementation-wise, you can incorporate 5-HTC (a precursor to tryptophan) which increases serotonin levels and elevates mood, and also helps with sleep. You could also try GABA, a supplement which is designed to directly increase growth hormone levels. Take naps in the afternoon, if you can. Otherwise, go to bed earlier, and if you can't get a hold of those 5-HTC supplements, and you find it hard to sleep, drink a large glass of warm full cream milk. Infrequent bouts of short, high intensity exercise will also increase your growth hormone levels. High intensity interval training on whatever piee of equipment you like (running even) twice a week, for just 12 to 20 minutes will improve your fitness, improve your circulation, and increase your growth hormone levels.

I think the point is that you need to plan, and if something isn't working then try to change things in a methodical way. Keep records of what you are doing, measure every part of your body on a regular basis, and see if anything has changed. Keep records of how you feel on a particular day.

I'm sure there are so many other things that one can do - the permutations of what you can do are limitless, and until you have tried everything, don't tell yourself that the hormones aren't working.

[Chrissty]

I agree with you, it's constant whining and moaning.

Hi Laura,

I understand the comments on Naturally Blonde's post, but I thought as a Global Moderator it would have been better to not endorse what is effectively a personal attack.

Maybe unlike others here, I have taken the time to talk to her, and I understand the frustration she has with her condition, and injustice she has suffered over many years (and continues to suffer) from the inflexible medical system in the UK.

We all express our personal opinions, and in her case while such opinions may seem negative, they are factual for her circumstances.

Please, I thought we were here to support each other through understanding and acceptance of our diversity of views.



Chrissty

[jesse]

Hi Laura,

I understand the comments on Naturally Blonde's post, but I thought as a Global Moderator it would have been better to not endorse what is effectively a personal attack.

Maybe unlike others here, I have taken the time to talk to her, and I understand the frustration she has with her condition, and injustice she has suffered over many years (and continues to suffer) from the inflexible medical system in the UK.

We all express our personal opinions, and in her case while such opinions may seem negative, they are factual for her circumstances.

Please, I thought we were here to support each other through understanding and acceptance of our diversity of views.



Chrissty

^ this 100 percent
jessica

[vanna]

That has to be one of the nicest most helpful posts i seen in susans for a long time Andream, well done to you Missy

i have been frustrated at NB in the past but it doesnt mean she should be attacked, she seems a kind and decent person just let down by a system and anyone full time knows how frustrating it is if your not fitting in

dont give in NB

[Dana Lane]

Oh yes... You can def. expect to be humored by "The Men" if you try to talk to them about "Guy stuff" as you did before

Really? I think of myself as humoring them.
Post Merge: April 27, 2010, 05:48:19 AM

I have noticed this too, but I think instead of berating her, perhaps it would be nice to see if there are any ways to help.

I suggested she contact some well known experts to see if she could find a referral. Not sure if she did that or not. NB, I hope you don't give up. But you really should exhaust all possibilities before doing so if you decide.

[Naturally Blonde]

I have noticed this too, but I think instead of berating her, perhaps it would be nice to see if there are any ways to help.

There are many things one can do to mix things up when it comes to HRT, even with orals. I even think stopping for a couple of months, sticking only with anti-androgens, and then starting again might have the benefit of clearing out the receptors, reducing SHBG levels, and thus re-priming the body for estrogen receptivity.

I have read Naturally Blonde has been using orals, and perhaps patches too (although I don't remember this clearly). Changing to a different medium like injectables or pellets may be helpful. If these aren't available, combing oral types may help as well. I experienced greater itching in my breasts when I combined oral Estradiol Valerate with oral 17b estradiol, whereas prior to that I was using the equivalent dosage of oral 17b estradiol alone. Also, oral use is less efficient in that it is metabolized into a higher proportion of estrone as opposed to the more powerful estradiol, whereas direct applications such as injections and pellets will yield a higher proportion of estradiol in the blood, which is far more feminizing.

What about your serum hormone levels? Do you get your hormone levels checked regularly? If not, then perhaps you should. Getting them into female range makes a huge difference. 800 to 1500 pmol/l is a desirable level to be at as 1500 is the top of the range for 15-17 year old girls.

Have you had an orchiectomy or SRS yet Naturally Blonde? If not, then this would help too, wouldn't it?

Have you tried introducing a progesterone or progestin into your regime? Although this may not improve femininity, it does assist in the development of fuller breasts, which is a definite plus. Progesterone also helps you to sleep, which ties in with something I talk about later here (more sleep = more growth hormone = greater development).

Have you tried changing your diet? I naturally eat a low calorie diet - approx 1400 cals a day - but I do have pig-out days, and the morning after those high calorie days I feel particularly feminine, and my breasts also hurt more. Mixing up your diet, experimenting with different foods, will help. From your face pic you look skinny, so I wonder if the inclusion of 100ml of uncooked extra virgin olive oil a day might help with your development, as well as rounding out your face. This would give you about 1000 extra calories a day, provide you with the health benefits of added omega 3s and omega 6s, and also develop into the desirable subcutaneous fat, as opposed to unhealthy visceral fats.

Have you tried vitamin supplementation? Multi-B vitamins, I have read, can have a beneficial impact on hormones receptivity.

You could also try reducing your SHBG levels, thereby increasing the amount of unbound, free estradiol in your system. Herbs like stinging nettle root contribute to SHBG reduction, and so does increasing your testosterone levels, although I don't think you want to do that.

You could also think of ways to increase you growth hormone levels - growth hormone aids in the development of your cells. Getting more sleep is the best way to do this, but supplementation-wise, you can incorporate 5-HTC (a precursor to tryptophan) which increases serotonin levels and elevates mood, and also helps with sleep. You could also try GABA, a supplement which is designed to directly increase growth hormone levels. Take naps in the afternoon, if you can. Otherwise, go to bed earlier, and if you can't get a hold of those 5-HTC supplements, and you find it hard to sleep, drink a large glass of warm full cream milk. Infrequent bouts of short, high intensity exercise will also increase your growth hormone levels. High intensity interval training on whatever piee of equipment you like (running even) twice a week, for just 12 to 20 minutes will improve your fitness, improve your circulation, and increase your growth hormone levels.

I think the point is that you need to plan, and if something isn't working then try to change things in a methodical way. Keep records of what you are doing, measure every part of your body on a regular basis, and see if anything has changed. Keep records of how you feel on a particular day.

I'm sure there are so many other things that one can do - the permutations of what you can do are limitless, and until you have tried everything, don't tell yourself that the hormones aren't working.

Hi andrea, thanks for your message. Most of the things you have listed I have tried including Estradiol Valerate in tablet form, but in the U.K we can't get injectable HRT licenced here which is something I'm wanting to try. I might have to buy it from overseas and hope it's not seized by U.K customs.

My diet is pretty good and I cut out the carbs. I excercise daily and have followed almost everything you have listed. I know it doesn't go down well to highlight the limitations of HRT for many people, not just me (even though they might say otherwise).

I also used to measure my body for a few years to see if there were any physical changes and no there are not any physical changes apart from an unwanted pot belly. I have no increase in fat on my legs or thighs or mass loss in my upper body.

I think you can list a million things to try but if your body's receptors are not working there is not much that can be done. My endo has more of less said that's it which is very upsetting and I may get to the point after 12 years of giving up. I get my oestrogen hormone levels tested regularly and they are in the high female range

Sorry to be so down beat but those are mine (and other TS's I know in England) experiences of HRT.

[glitter]

Plus: Having my body run by female hormones like I wanted
Minus: There are no minuses. Seriously I've been on HRT about half a year now and there's NOTHING I could say bad about it.

I feel the same way.

Loss of strength? Yay! Now I don't have to pretend to be weak anymore, I actually am!

One cool thing I have noticed that I love is that I have gotten rounder in my lower half but not gained any weight. I think it's because it balances out with the loss of muscle.

Everything about HRT is amazing. It validates everything I have ever thought about my true identity. E fits me like a glove.

[jesse]

NB's expeirence is not unigue to her alone i have heard others say it has failed them it is unfortunate although having seen her other photos when i was responding to a post about exercise for her i do think she has had some affects because i read her as female in those photos but im just one person. If infact her receptors for estrogen are not functioning normally and i see no reason to doubt an endocrinologist oppinon of it changing her delivery method will be of little effect. are you read as male often NB? perhaps the other avenues available such as surgery if its with-in your means can benifit your presentation. im a big fan of using the tools available and if that means plastic then so be it. lipo will remove the pot belly and ffs can modify your face dramatically in some cases. i give Maghans transformation (see her U tube if you havnt) its astounding what her sergeon was able to acomplish. Also everything ive read on Hrt states that maximum benifit is achieved in 2 years so after 12 years of taking it its pointless to continue except to maintain your e levels and t suppression. as far as the gaining of body wait to offset a so called-male apperience i have seen women without the prefered hour glass figure it dosnt afect her presentation she is still accepted as female. i think NB just needs to evaluate her presentation then if shes not being read as a female take the necessary surgical steps to achieve her final best presentation.
jessica
hugs nb i hope you find peace

[Naturally Blonde]

NB's expeirence is not unigue to her alone i have heard others say it has failed them it is unfortunate although having seen her other photos when i was responding to a post about exercise for her i do think she has had some affects because i read her as female in those photos but im just one person. If infact her receptors for estrogen are not functioning normally and i see no reason to doubt an endocrinologist oppinon of it changing her delivery method will be of little effect. are you read as male often NB? perhaps the other avenues available such as surgery if its with-in your means can benifit your presentation. im a big fan of using the tools available and if that means plastic then so be it. lipo will remove the pot belly and ffs can modify your face dramatically in some cases. i give Maghans transformation (see her U tube if you havnt) its astounding what her sergeon was able to acomplish. Also everything ive read on Hrt states that maximum benifit is achieved in 2 years so after 12 years of taking it its pointless to continue except to maintain your e levels and t suppression. as far as the gaining of body wait to offset a so called-male apperience i have seen women without the prefered hour glass figure it dosnt afect her presentation she is still accepted as female. i think NB just needs to evaluate her presentation then if shes not being read as a female take the necessary surgical steps to achieve her final best presentation.
jessica
hugs nb i hope you find peace

Hi Jenny, thanks for the message. In the days before I started on HRT (1990's) I wasn't usually read as male but recently it's happened a few times. Around 2004 I always seemed to be read as female but recently things have changed and I'm sometimes perceived as male. It can be very frustrating and upsetting. I often have a cry day to day which seems to help me keep going.

My endocrinologist is one of the best in the U.K and he says the only way to go is surgery, especially liposuction to the belly area which is my biggest problem and the only place fat seems to deposit itself. It may be that I'm expecting too much from HRT and many girls seemed to be happy with very little development but I did think HRT would have more effect and at least put fat on my lower and upper legs and butt, which of course hasn't happened. I seem to be ok from the the neck upwards but HRT hasn't make any improvements to my body fat distribution which I think still looks male.

[LordKAT]

NB

For what its worth, your avatar looks female to me.

[Naturally Blonde]

NB

For what its worth, your avatar looks female to me.

Thanks! but I'm concerned about my poor body fat distribution and a male body shape and not my face. 

[LordKAT]

Thanks! but I'm concerned about my poor body fat distribution and a male body shape and not my face. 

The avatar I saw had your upper body clearly visible. I was going on more than just face. I admit it didn't show all of you.

[Naturally Blonde]

The avatar I saw had your upper body clearly visible. I was going on more than just face. I admit it didn't show all of you.

You can only see my arms and not my fat belly.

[shanetastic]

You can only see my arms and not my fat belly.

I wouldn't be defined as female proportions either since I have a lot of trouble putting on weight right now but I mean it doesn't seem to hinder anything.  I think you just have to find alternative ways to dress maybe too to help bring out the parts of the body that you DO like.  I know it's not really a solution to the problem but I mean it can help

[Naturally Blonde]

I wouldn't be defined as female proportions either since I have a lot of trouble putting on weight right now but I mean it doesn't seem to hinder anything.  I think you just have to find alternative ways to dress maybe too to help bring out the parts of the body that you DO like.  I know it's not really a solution to the problem but I mean it can help

My point was that my arms, legs, butt etc are stick thin and then I have this pot belly which looks like I'm pregnant! HRT seems to have piled on the fat just in one area and not anywhere else. The belly area also looks like a male type fat distribution which is not what I was trying to achieve.

As for your solution with covering up with clothes, it's a good solution in the winter but not so cool when it's boiling hot on the beach in the summer!

[Lacey Lynne]

Virginia Marie:

I'm on hormone replacement therapy now for approximately 4.5 months.  Pretty much, I'm having the same effects that you are.  The psychological effects are the best.  I could go on and on. 

The one minus is weight around the middle.  I had very little of that before hormone replacement therapy.  The weight is around the middle and NOT at the hips!   Grrrr!   Maybe it will shift eventually. 

Breasts are WAY sore whenever I lie on them to sleep ... face-down position.  Whenever I accidentally bump them, yeow!  Your breast development is better than mine, but I'm doing okay and am ever hopeful.

Love reading everybody's experiences!

L.L.   
Post Merge: April 28, 2010, 02:04:10 PM

I'm a year on HRT.

Plusses: Breast growth, increased size of butt and thighs, softer skin, rounder lower belly (the 'pouch'), center of gravity has shifted so I stand and walk in a more feminine way, more emotional, freer, able to "feel", chattiness, more even (despite being more emotional), able to cry, the evil twins are dormant.

Minuses: I've gained 15 pounds in the last year, lower upper body strength (but not enough to be a problem), weight gain.

All in all, not a bad deal.

- Kate

Hi, Kate!  Long time no talk ... I see that all is going well ... Excellent!   

[Naturally Blonde]

Virginia Marie:

I'm on hormone replacement therapy now for approximately 4.5 months.  Pretty much, I'm having the same effects that you are.  The psychological effects are the best.  I could go on and on. 

The one minus is weight around the middle.  I had very little of that before hormone replacement therapy.  The weight is around the middle and NOT at the hips!   Grrrr!   Maybe it will shift eventually. 

Breasts are WAY sore whenever I lie on them to sleep ... face-down position.  Whenever I accidentally bump them, yeow!  Your breast development is better than mine, but I'm doing okay and am every hopeful.

Love reading everybody's experiences!

L.L.   

I'm glad that others are facing up to the reality of the situation.

[justmeinoz]

Anyone who is having trouble with their weight may have run up against a human physical limitation.  Fat cells apparently increase in size as we put on weight, up to a certain point then stop growing.

We can still put on weight however, as the body gets around this limitation by producing extra fat cells, over and above the  "normal" number.

If we then reduce our weight, these additional cells are not lost ,creating  the well known situation where it is harder to get rid of the fat than to put it on.  The only way that seems to work is to actually physically remove them by surgery or liposuction.

Hope this makes those with difficult weight control problems feel a little better about themselves.