"Ladies First"

[Constance]

So, I wore the following to work today.



I was approaching a door from one direction, and my co-workers J___ and R____ were approaching from another. R____ held the door for me and said, "Ladies first."

His tone of voice seemed to me to be gently mocking, without any real malice intended. I thought about replying "Thank you" or "As it should be," but instead I said "Up yours, R____" in the same gently mocking/joking tone of voice. He laughed, J___ laughed, and I laughed.

Really, I'm of two minds about this. First, I think he might really have been mocking me for the way I dressed today. But also, I felt complimented. No: I don't look like a "lady." But, I wasn't looking very manly, either.

I'm beginning to think that maybe I should buy a copy of "Understanding Transsexuals" and donate it to my employer.

[Little Dragon]

What on earth are you wearing? o_o What do you work as?

[Constance]

The black shirt is a men's shirt. The white shirt, the pants, the shoes, and the nylons are women's. And I'm a tech support analyst.

But, I just had a meeting with my boss (that I requested) about this thing. I'd come out to him in March (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,74249.0.html) as androgyne/genderqueer, but I just told him that I'm seeing a gender therapist and am quite possibly beginning the MTF transition process. Things are still early yet, so we aren't telling the team as a whole ... yet.

[Megan]

No offense...

But that look is  a strong, laughable, and mocking look *not the clothes itself, but the message of genders*  that is begging for someone to comment on. It does not deserve cruelty, but come on, what do you really expect? His comment is a gentle way of saying, "What a ->-bleeped-<-...", and that is what it comes across to mainstream America, even though this has nothing to do with homosexuality but more of crossdressing.

It was no way a compliment, unless he was your good friend and really wish you luck on your transition and was treating you like a woman.

I like your hair though.

[tekla]

speculate that they got dressed while half asleep

Pretty much sums up fashion in the Bay Area

[Constance]

Interesting comments here. Unlike with R____, I cannot observe the facial expressions, body language, and tone of voice so it's difficult to tell if these comments are meant to be contemptuous or not.

Was I begging for comments? No. As to the question, "what do you really expect," there are various ways I can answer that. If the question was asked out of genuine curiosity, then my answer is that I expected comments like this to have started several months ago. If the question was rhetorical, then I have no answer. My experience has been that rhetorical questions are usually more contemptuous than R____'s actual spoken comment. Megan, could you please clarify?

I was fully awake when I dressed and fully awake when I assembled the outfit the night before. Yes, it is an odd combination. But, I'm an odd person.

Some of us have lost the genetic lottery. There are mirrors in my house; I know what I look like. At 6 foot 1 and 190 pounds, I know that I'm a tall, pot-bellied, ugly, middle-aged man. I know what I'll be should I go through with transition (which seems likely to me at this point in time): a tall, pot-bellied, ugly, middle-aged WOman.

I can go from clean-shaven to a full beard in 6 weeks. Without a very close shave and layers of carefully applied makeup, an attempt at a genderqueer presentaion is the best I can try at this point in time. I'm hoping to start laser or electro soon, but that takes money. I might be able to start that this fall.

Vexing, I am familiar with your condscention and contempt from your previous posts. Tekla, too, can pour on the scorn. But, I have had the fortunate experience to have alse encounter positive comments from Tekla, too. Could you please clarify you position? Emoticons can seem trite, to me.

Does that mean to say that positive is always complimentary? No. One can express uncomplimentary comments in a positive manner. Constructive criticism is one such method. So far, I don't see much of that in the replies to my post here.

But, that is positive in a way, too. If these replies to my post are genuinely contemptuous, then it serves as a reminder that I will encounter negativity during this process from within the community as well as without.

Any clarification will be appreciated.

[tekla]

Me, I blame the fog, I think the viability is just too low when most of us get up and have to make those fashion choices.

Fashion is very much part of a public performance.  It's a statement to the world - whether you want it to be or not.  Be it, "I have arrived" or, "I really, really need to get some laundry done."  And like any public statement I think people have a right to comment on it.  After all when you wear it - whatever "it" is - you're inflicting it on all the rest of us too.

And the comments didn't start right away, but come with a familiarity over time.  And its super hard for anyone to know how familiar the people you work with are with each other, which has a lot to do with who says what to whom and how they say it.

[Constance]

It is interesting how many people seem to read statements into something like "fashion" choices. When I was dying my hair odd colors, I had been asked if I was "making a statement." Uh, yeah, I like purple hair.

I'd been asked if I bike to work as a political thing. Uh, no, I just like riding my bike. It's fun.

Likewise with how I dress. There are certain combinations that look good to me, and I wear those. It's interesting which ones result in comments and which don't.

[Arch]

If I encountered someone dressed similarly, I would probably speculate that they got dressed while half asleep. It's a very odd combination of clothing.
Still, so long as you're happy, it doesn't matter what others think. 

You should see what some of my students wear. Mainly the gals, but a few guys, too.

They have their own personal style. I just go about my business.

Shades, you already know what you're getting into. You're okay.

FWIW, the men in my gay group are always making fun of my shirts from Brooks Brothers and Jos. Bank. I wear what I like. But I might make the move from patterns to solids in the near future.

[Dana Lane]

"No Offense" is always followed by something offensive.

[Megan]

"No Offense" is always followed by something offensive.

Yes Dana, because if we just blurt it out like saying "Blah blah blah", then it's like you're not considering the other person's sensitive side. I have no idea about anyone toleration to possible negative thoughts, and if the person might cry behind the computer screen.

But I could not just say, "Screw that guy! He's in the wrong" since the world is a cruel and harsh place where people do not accept others differences. That guy doesn't mean any harm, he was just raise to view this crossdressing as a weird "fetish" or something equally weird. He would not understand unless he took the time to get the knowledge to understand, and really he would not do that and so would most of the world.

And you see Dana, sometimes I do keep things to myself and just respond with "I see softer skin" since I know the truth wouldn't go far especially with permanent masculine physical attributes.

[BunnyBee]

This reminds me of when I was first trying to get the nerve to go out into the wide world as a woman and I was completely terrified of not being accepted and becoming an outcast, etc.  I finally started overcoming those fears when I began feeling it just wasn't fair to make people unknowingly hurt my feelings when they treated me as the wrong gender.  I felt it would be better to be an unaccepted woman than an accepted man, because at least people would know how I preferred to be treated.  Whether they afforded me that courtesy would be up to them course, but if they decided to hurt my feelings it would at least be on purpose.

Here you may have friends mockingly treating you as a woman, but they at least know that being treated as a woman is your preference.  Whether the mocking part is upsetting depends on your personality and your relationship with those people I guess.  I wouldn't have taken it well, regardless, but perhaps it's better than them slapping you on the back and calling you "dude?"

[Constance]

On a somewhat related topic, I have another coworker who's really outgoing and just loves to talk. On his way past my cube one day, he said, "You the man, Dave."

I replied, "For now."

[Nero]

Regardless of your coworkers' or anyone else's reactions, you're taking steps, you're getting out there, testing the waters. Transition is a process as is personal fashion sense. It takes young girls a while to find their own personal style too. You're doing well hon. 

[Dana Lane]

On a somewhat related topic, I have another coworker who's really outgoing and just loves to talk. On his way past my cube one day, he said, "You the man, Dave."

I replied, "For now."

Good one!

[Constance]

Regardless of your coworkers' or anyone else's reactions, you're taking steps, you're getting out there, testing the waters. Transition is a process as is personal fashion sense. It takes young girls a while to find their own personal style too. You're doing well hon.

Thanks, Nero.

[FairyGirl]

Good for you! Like Nero said, it's a process of finding your personal style but at least you are strong enough to get out there and be yourself in the first place. That is a great achievement in itself.

[BunnyBee]

On a somewhat related topic, I have another coworker who's really outgoing and just loves to talk. On his way past my cube one day, he said, "You the man, Dave."

I replied, "For now."

I like your attitude, lots.

[Constance]

Thanks, FairyGirl & Jen.

[Constance]

Thank you for clarifiying.

As to what I meant by condescention and contempt, yes, I've seen a great deal of posts from you that seem to be condescending and contemptuous. For instance, in your posts regarding religion, you could have said you simply don't believe rather than to add details in your posts that seem to mock those of us who do.

The way your post was worded implied nothing positive. This apparent negativity, along with the posts I've read of yours that frequently seemed like attacks, and it seemed that you were being insulting.

So, I had misjudged your reply to my post here and it seems I've offended you. For that, I do apologize. Perhaps we can coexist peacefully in the future. I'll ask for clarification before replying to a post I don't fully understand.

Can we agree to that?