Yay!!! More surgery for me!

[FairyGirl]

Thank you Michelle I'm going with Dr. McGinn in Philadelphia whom I've never heard anything bad about. I'm satisfied she'll do a good job as well.

oooh Nero hugs 

[Kristyn]

Unless Anne got the dates wrong, that first image is 2006.  I'm not sure how many months post-op that result would be.  As mentioned before, that's a pretty close match to my result and I'm 3.5 years post op and nothing has changed.

Yep, that's from 2006 and is only 7 months post op.  The result I was referring to that I like was the one from Feb 2000.

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/brassard0200.html

As a matter of fact, I will refer to this image with Brassard when discussing my wants.  I like how the labia minora come all the way down.  If he requires a skin graft to achieve it he has my ok.

Valerie has commented that hers is similar in appearance to yours and the photo you provided and I'm wondering if this is just his current technique, circumstantial, or due to workable material.  I would like to hear from Sara who had her surgery a little while ago and who gave us all a fine account of her experience

SARA WE NEED YOU!  TELL US WHAT YOUR POONEY LOOKS LIKE!

After that incident I've been very careful not to let any man see that part of me. If I'm standing it's impossible to tell the difference between me and a natal female.

You shouldn't torture yourself like that.  I'm pretty sure you will find an understanding man who will take you as you are.  Although hard to come by, I'm sure there are one or two left. 

One poor lady was there because she had fallen asleep with the dialator inside her.  She caused some significant damage when she removed the dialator.  I felt so bad for her, because she had to save airfare money for a whole year before returning for the repair job.  In the end it all turned out good.

YIKES!  Poor girl.

Despite my own criticism of my results, I do believe Dr. Brassard did a fine job on me.

I'm glad you are happy.  It really doesn't look too bad, if it is close to that image shown.  You just have to weed out the insensitive ->-bleeped-<-s your sleeping with.

I certainly hope I didn't discourage anyone as that wasn't my intent.  Just wanted to supply some food for thought.

Haven't discouraged me, you actually prompted me to ask specific questions and point out some details concerning aeasthetics when I have my pre surgery consult with Dr Brassard.

Sara and Chloe, I wish you all the best.  I'm happy and excited for you.  If you're on your way to Montreal, say hi to Chantal for me.  She's a sweet heart!

Awwww, how sweet!  But where's my pat on the ass, I'm only a week after sarah.  Doesn't anyone want to wish the evil misfit  Kristyn a happy slappy nappy surgery
[/quote]

[Jessica.C]

I think I'd be totaly happy with a result like this one.

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/brassard0502.html

This one scares me a little cause of the excess skin. No offence if this is someone on this forum.

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/brassard0902.html

God i wish it was as simple as picking it out from a catalog.... Oh here I'll take that one! 

[Kristyn]

I think I'd be happy with a result like this one.

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/brassard0502.html

I really don't like the appearance of this when it is spread

This one scares me a little cause of the excess skin. No offence if this is someone on this forum.

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/brassard0902.html

Yeah, this one looks a little off as well.  Then again, I would like to see her currently to see how it has changed over time.  I've heard of a few who have had gone to Meltzer for revisions due to excess skin.  Another point I will bring up with Brassard--no excess skin, please.

[Jessica.C]

 
To me the comparison between the two photos is like night and day hard to believe that there all form the same surgeon

[Kristyn]

To me the comparison between the two photos is like night and day hard to believe that there all form the same surgeon

Yeah.  He's obviously not working from a template   I kind of wish that they all looked somewhat similar then we would have a good idea as what to expect.  I just don't want to end up with what looks like a crumpled up rubber glove super glued to my crotch

[Jessica.C]

Yeah.  He's obviously not working from a template   I kind of wish that they all looked somewhat similar then we would have a good idea as what to expect.  I just don't want to end up with what looks like a crumpled up rubber glove super glued to my crotch

Funny yet Terrifying! However it is a well know fact that Dr Brassard is one of the best SRS surgeons in the world. I don't know but after this thread I'm starting to think it wouldn't be a bad idea to make previsions for a revision just in case.

[Kristyn]

Funny yet Terrifying! However it is a well know fact that Dr Brassard is one of the best SRS surgeons in the world. I don't know but after this thread I'm starting to think it wouldn't be a bad idea to make previsions for a revision just in case.

I agree, he is one of the best, but he is also human too.  I'm pretty confident that I/we will have a successful outcome and that not only depends on the expertise of the surgeon, but on how we take care of ourselves afterward.  Many things can affect the outcome of the surgery after the fact, like infection and how we heal.  I think having 3,000-5,000 for a revision is good to have handy  The one thing that this thread has taught me is how to look at the finer details, like the inner labia.  Up until now I never really thought about it.  All good points to bring up with the doctor pre surgery and perhaps avoiding the need for a revision later on

[Jessica.C]

I agree, he is one of the best, but he is also human too.  I'm pretty confident that I/we will have a successful outcome and that not only depends on the expertise of the surgeon, but on how we take care of ourselves afterward.  Many things can affect the outcome of the surgery after the fact, like infection and how we heal.  I think having 3,000-5,000 for a revision is good to have handy  The one thing that this thread has taught me is how to look at the finer details, like the inner labia.  Up until now I never really thought about it.  All good points to bring up with the doctor pre surgery and perhaps avoiding the need for a revision later on

I agree totally. So are you sure it runs around 3 to 5  thousand for a revision. Has Brassard quoted that price?

[Kristyn]

I agree totally. So are you sure it runs around 3 to 5  thousand for a revision. Has Brassard quoted that price?

I'm just going by what I've heard from others who have had minor stuff done and these patients went to Meltzer.  Brassard might be the same maybe cheaper

[Kristyn]

It is surprising that there was no option offered for a fuller labia at any time. I would have paid an extra $7-10k for a graft if it would achieve a better look. I definitely would have even paid that and the money for my breasts ($7k) to achieve a complete labia minora, for $15k more than the srs. This leads me to think it just isnt possible with a graft.

I think, once again, that it all boils down to what you have to work with.  When I mentioned having a graft, I meant a graft not so much for the construction of the labia, but for the vagina, leaving most of the donor material to construct the vulva

Why leave it up to the patient to discover the options when they could make more money on say 50% of customers willing to pay extra?

This should not be an extra cost but rather an option that the patient can choose.  I think we're already paying enough.

Also, I havent seen marketing or discussion on surgeons sites for fuller labia as an option during the srs. Only labiaplasty as an option at a later date.

I'm not too sure how the second stage of a two stage op works but I'm pretty sure it is to construct the outer labia and not the inner

Now I've spent the money that could have been used for that on breasts and other things, plus leaving funds for an emergency complication if that comes up. It upsets me because I'm left not understanding my options.

You're right, options should be made much clearer and perhaps in the future they very well may.  But I think it is up to the patient to know going in what they want and discuss the possibility of any desired outcomes/options with the doctor.  The doctor could then keep that in mind while performing the surgery and if sufficient material is there he may comply.  For example, during my consult I asked Dr Brassard whether he follows a standard in terms of clitoral size and apparently he does not.  He can size the clitoris to the patients desire making it larger if that's what the patient wants.  I've never heard of anyone discuss this anywhere.  This is why I'm taking a photo of one of his previous results I like and ask him to try for this.  Why not, if he did it once he could do it again.  I'm also going to take photos showing him what I don't want.  I think many people are afraid to speak up to the surgeon and we shouldn't be.  I don't think asking to try for a possible outcome will upset the surgeon, but demanding a possible outcome just might.

[Flan]

I'm not too sure how the second stage of a two stage op works but I'm pretty sure it is to construct the outer labia and not the inner

usually during labiaplasty clitoral hooding and forchette are made, sometimes clitoral location and urethral issues are handled at the same time. (the wiki says minora are made in it but most surgeons make it during first step and refine during second)

[Kristyn]

Yes, I agree it's the patients responsibility. I do think it is very hard for the patient to know if they will be getting labia minora that surrounds the vagina, as it does for a genetic woman. All we have to go on are a few pics of results that are not well presented, taken candidly by the patient themselves. I wish in hindsight I had asked that question, but then I didnt have my own vagina to look at, as I do now.

I agree about the pictures--more should definitely be available.  I asked at my consult and he told me he did not have any recent photos, but showed me some which he had on his hard drive.  I think regardless of my results I will post, anonymously of course.  I mean, more people should be doing this as it gives those seeking surgery a good idea of what to expect in terms of results.  I think all doctors should have a one year follow up policy in which at that time photos can be taken and collected

I asked few questions. I didnt really know what to ask and he was the expert. I have to presume that he will do the best he can for me at the time of the surgery. I have a hard time believing that because of a few extra questions answered a patient will get a different result. I'm pretty sure he has a surgical technique, all patients get the same surgery according to his nurses I spoke to.

I guess in theory all patients do get the same surgery--a single stage penile inversion.  I'm just floored at the variety of results I've seen.  Some look perfect(to me)yet others don't look so perfect.

I really didn't know what to ask either until this thread.  It opened up a lot of possibilities

P.S. Best wishes for a happy slappy nappy surgery 

THANK YOU!  You are such a sweet lady!
Post Merge: June 01, 2010, 10:49:07 PM

usually during labiaplasty clitoral hooding and forchette are made, sometimes clitoral location and urethral issues are handled at the same time. (the wiki says minora are made in it but most surgeons make it during first step and refine during second)

Sounds like a two stage would be a better choice

[michelle_h]

Hi all,

Great discussion going on here!  Wish I found discussion's like this when I was picking a surgeon..... lot's to think about, isn't there?

Kristyn, very sorry I missed you in the well wishes...  of course I'm excited / happy for you and wish you all the best.

Yep, that's from 2006 and is only 7 months post op.  The result I was referring to that I like was the one from Feb 2000.

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/brassard0200.html

Yes, this one looks pretty good.  If that's what you're hoping for, take the image with you and ask about it.  One thing to keep in mind, unlike ffs where virtual ffs can be created based on an existing photo.  SRS outcomes can be affected by variables that a surgeon can't see from a consult, ie amount of spongy tissue within the donor
material.  Even ffs can't be totally nailed down, or at least that's what I learned from my experience.

The days leading up to srs are crazy... did I pick the correct surgeon, what if this or that happens, what will I do?  Should I take my money back and go with someone else.. but I'll have to wait longer....  What am I talking about.. this is one of the best, On and on it goes.  It's a tough choice.

It is surprising that there was no option offered for a fuller labia at any time. I would have paid an extra $7-10k for a graft if it would achieve a better look. I definitely would have even paid that and the money for my breasts ($7k) to achieve a complete labia minora, for $15k more than the srs. This leads me to think it just isnt possible with a graft.

I agree, definitely would have paid more for that option.  I think the surgeons are driven by the client's demands (us).  If we all say we're thrilled with the result then the surgeon will continue to create those types of results.  As more clients ask for better definition in the labia minor or creation of the commissure (term from Dr. Suporns site) for example the surgeons will attempt to improve their results.  I'm sure Dr. Brassard's current results differ from his first ones.  What prompted Dr. Suporn and other Thai surgeons to change techniques from penile inversion to the technique they use today, can't just be strictly their own motivation.

Quote from: Kristyn on Today at 10:43:41 pm
I think many people are afraid to speak up to the surgeon and we shouldn't be.  I don't think asking to try for a possible outcome will upset the surgeon, but demanding a possible outcome just might.
I asked few questions. I didnt really know what to ask and he was the expert. I have to presume that he will do the best he can for me at the time of the surgery. I have a hard time believing that because of a few extra questions answered a patient will get a different result. I'm pretty sure he has a surgical technique, all patients get the same surgery according to his nurses I spoke to.

I too was like that, asking few questions and presuming the surgeon will do the best for me.  Clarify "best for me".  The surgeon may exceed or fall short of what you consider "best for you", but that's based on your preference and means nothing unless vocalized.   Knowing what questions to ask I think come from discussions like this.

But I think it is up to the patient to know going in what they want and discuss the possibility of any desired outcomes/options with the doctor.  The doctor could then keep that in mind while performing the surgery and if sufficient material is there he may comply.  For example, during my consult I asked Dr Brassard whether he follows a standard in terms of clitoral size and apparently he does not.  He can size the clitoris to the patients desire making it larger if that's what the patient wants.  I've never heard of anyone discuss this anywhere.  This is why I'm taking a photo of one of his previous results I like and ask him to try for this.  Why not, if he did it once he could do it again.  I'm also going to take photos showing him what I don't want.  I think many people are afraid to speak up to the surgeon and we shouldn't be.  I don't think asking to try for a possible outcome will upset the surgeon, but demanding a possible outcome just might.

Excellent response!

I see as I'm typing this there's some major responses going on!  I'm not revising this... too tired, I did an hour of "boot camp" exercises tonight.

Michelle

Post Merge: June 01, 2010, 10:15:22 PM

Melan, sorry that the thread took a turn into a broader discussion on revisions. You stimulated alot of talk.

Yes, sorry Melan.  Hopefully a revision and not a major one at that will fix everything up for you and you can get on with life.

Thank you for this post. 

Michelle

[FairyGirl]

this has definitely given me some things to ask my doctor before surgery. I'm leaving open the option for a second stage operation later, but only if I really think it necessary. Dr. McGinn discusses this on her website:

Before 2000, some surgeons strongly recommended having an initial vaginoplasty followed by a labiaplasty a few months later.  Often times, patients would save money for both vaginoplasty and labiaplasty right from the start. The purpose of labiaplasty is to further define the clitoral hood as well as the labia minora. These flap adjustments were planned for a later date because a period of healing was necessary following the vaginoplasty in order to safely perform the delicate flap surgery.  Staged surgery is a tool often employed by those trained in plastic surgery.  When the popularity of the internet increased, the "recommended" labiaplasty was misinterpreted as "mandatory" by chat room discussions.

After the year 2000, the "one stage" movement began.  This change in demand was marketed by some surgeons who pointed out the obvious financial benefit of one less surgery... and the controversy began.  As this decade unfolded, vaginoplasty techniques became more standardized among surgeons. However, the idea of "one stage or two" erroneously remained a primary emphasis for patients when choosing a surgeon.

So I think the best thing for me to do is just wait and see. Like with HRT, the waiting for the results is the most difficult aspect of this to me, but I do think that having patience will turn out to be my friend in the end lol

[lilacwoman]

one English girl had had 15 revisions by a UK surgeon and still it wasn't right so things do go wrong.

Just had a thought:  UK and US surgeons are all male (I have to include Marcie here - with no malice intended) and have big male hands - are the Thai surgeons generally smaller and have small hands better able to do intricate work 'inside'?

I've had to see various surgeons in the Uk and the white ones including the first one I went to see about doing my SRS had hands like shovels while the little Asian guy who did my orchie had lovely little girlie hands...

[Wendy1974]

Seriously Lilacwoman? What a lot of transphobic and racist crap!
-Dr. Marcie Bowers is a man? What on earth are you doing here if you believe that?!
-Hand size has no more to do with how good a surgeon you are then it has to do with how good a brick layer you are!
Seriously: I am absolutely disgusted by your post.

Wendy

[Renate]

I have it on good authority that most surgeons actually use scalpels and not their bare hands.

[lpfix2009]

Seriously Lilacwoman? What a lot of transphobic and racist crap!
-Dr. Marcie Bowers is a man? What on earth are you doing here if you believe that?!
-Hand size has no more to do with how good a surgeon you are then it has to do with how good a brick layer you are!
Seriously: I am absolutely disgusted by your post.

Wendy

I second that comment :S

[mmelny]

Post Merge: June 01, 2010, 10:15:22 PM
Yes, sorry Melan.  Hopefully a revision and not a major one at that will fix everything up for you and you can get on with life.

Thank you for this post. 

Michelle

This has been such a good discussion, and I feel fairly embarrassed to come back with this, but I think a few good points to append.

Late this last week, I had a consultation with a doc here in Toronto that has seen, in her words, 100's of vulvas from post op SRS patients.  When she was looking at mine, and *cough*, probing the affected areas, she gasped out words that equated to something to the effect that I had really good results.   Really good results.  I moaned, "but what about the big bulbous matter in the middle", and she said it didn't look much different then any of the 1000's of vulvas of natal females that she looked at.  There are indeed huge variations,   that it was a bit raw, but that it would heal.  And worse case, she said, I could have it revised, at the same time, that I had the HOLLOW AREA ABOVE MY CLITORIS taken care of.   Apparently, I have no idea how to look at a vulva, and know what is right, wrong, or really needs fixing.. I must have flunked that course in junior high school .

Lol... oh well, life does move forward, and I'm supremely happy to take my lot.  It could be so much worse.   I hate that I posted this moaney thread.   It could be sooooo much worse, and I am so ever thankful that I am healthy, alive and able to get a second chance at life, and SRS is part of the puzzle helping to provide that second chance.   There are huge complications that can arise from SRS, and I am so ever thankful that I don't appear to be facing those.  I may have to have a revision, but that's chump change in the bigger picture.

*huggs*,
Melan