Why do people think that feminine guys are gay?

[Anima]

A coworker noticed my mascara+eyeliner today and asked if I used makeup, and I said I just used some permanent coloring since I already color my hair (starting to feel embarrassed) and then he plunged out with that he knew I was gay, and I could just admit it. I denied, and said I like girls, but he just refused to believe me and kept saying it was ok to come out of the closet etc. And it was a bit frustrating to not be believed, even if he would never understand it if I told the real truth.Anyone had similar experiences?

[cynthialee]

Yeah I ussed to wonder that all the time back when I was doing the man dance.

I had to start being very promiscuious (with females) to put the 'he is gay' thing to rest.

Now I am out of the closet but it is a diferant closet and it turns out I am a lesbian. lol guess I really was gay all along.

[Rock_chick]

I got teased so much for being feminine in character (though not in presentation) through school that I convinced my self i had to be gay...but I've never been attracted to men in the slightest. It was an immense relief to discover I was a lesbian.

[kyril]

Because there are lots of effeminate gay guys and very few effeminate straight guys. Femme lesbian trans women are in essentially the same bind as masculine gay trans men: or gender performance fits the mold for the exact opposite gender identity/sexual orientation combination from the one we identify with.

I'm not a butch lesbian, and you're not a gay man, but as long as we don't fully pass there will be people making those assumptions because they have a "gay" box in their mind and we appear to fit in it.

[Torn1990]

A coworker noticed my mascara+eyeliner today and asked if I used makeup, and I said I just used some permanent coloring since I already color my hair (starting to feel embarrassed) and then he plunged out with that he knew I was gay, and I could just admit it. I denied, and said I like girls, but he just refused to believe me and kept saying it was ok to come out of the closet etc. And it was a bit frustrating to not be believed, even if he would never understand it if I told the real truth.Anyone had similar experiences?

It's frustrating.. But it's only natural that if a guy acts feminin a straight man will assume he's gay. We're bound to bump into those ignorant fools every once in awhile.. just got to deal with them as passive-aggressively as possible.
It's not even people, but many things that are feminin are assosiated as "gay" if a man uses it or purchases. My roommates yesterday had suggested strawberry frapps from starbucks is a gay drink. Irritating.. I honestly just think these people lack intelligence.

[cynthialee]

Years ago in in my man days I would occasionaly wear eyeliner. Well my sister in law always pointed it out and made a loud show of it pointing out to everyone I was in eyeliner.
I stoped wearing it eventually. Which was a shame as it was one of my only coping mechanisms back then.

Some folks just find it nesesary to be the self apointed gender police.

[Osiris]

Because in our culture manliness is associated with sexuality. If a guy is attracted to other guys then many people believe his manliness is in question because they see wanting to be with another dude as feminine and womanly.

There are those "tough" straight guy's who if their sexuality is called into question their response tends to be something like "are you crazy? I'm a MAN! GRRR!!! *acts overly macho*" Of course no one questioned if their were a man in the first place but because of that idea that manliness is connected to who you're sleeping with they feel their masculinity has been challenged.

[spacial]

Some people seem obscessed with trying to sniff out gay men.

It's kinda obvious why.

If anyone says anything like that to me, I usually respond by asking them if they are looking at my bum. That generally put them off their guard enough for a second quip. But the second needs to be designed for the specific situation.

If the guy is an agressive type, I generally leave it there. If it's an over sensitive type, I usually direct a comment to them along the lines of don't take, don't give.

Might help you.

[Arch]

I guess most people's gaydar, when used on men, operates on signals that tend to be read as feminine or effeminate. So trans women who are still living as men will often be read as gay. And gayness is much more in the public eye than transness, so most people will think "gay" before they think "trans." Or, for that matter, "straight." Because, you know, straight men NEVER come across as gay.

I often wonder about the origin of those signals in gay men. There seems to be a higher percentage of effeminate gay men than effeminate straight men. But do they start out that way? How much is inherent? How much of this apparent effeminacy is openly fostered by gay communities and assiduously rooted out by straight communities? How many straight men come across as gay but aren't? How accurate is gaydar?

Sorry, now you've got me going.

[spacial]

I'm not so sure Arch.

In my experience, many men are obscessed with not being gay.

[Osiris]

They once had a show on a guy who had been "gay bashed" who was actually straight. He was a pretty effeminate man had a more feminine speech pattern. Him and his wife since they were married would constantly be hassled by people like "is this a marriage of convenience?" his wife getting questions on if she realized that her husband is gay and why did she marry a gay man.

Thing was, he grew up in a house with 4 sisters, his father had died and he was raised by his mom and his sisters. He had simply picked up on some of their traits. He'd never had any question of his sexuality or of his gender. He'd just learned to express himself in more feminine ways by being around girls most of his life.

[Arch]

Thing was, he grew up in a house with 4 sisters, his father had died and he was raised by his mom and his sisters. He had simply picked up on some of their traits. He'd never had any question of his sexuality or of his gender. He'd just learned to express himself in more feminine ways by being around girls most of his life.

I often feel that this sort of thing explains why so many trans men I know who came out of lesbian communities take longer to be read as men or (once they are "passing") as straight men. I wonder if this is a statistical anomaly. Or am I seeing a genuine trend? It makes sense to me...
Post Merge: June 02, 2010, 06:23:30 PM

I'm not so sure Arch.

In my experience, many men are obscessed with not being gay.

Not so sure that...help! I'm not sure what you are referring to.

[cynthialee]

I'm not so sure Arch.

In my experience, many men are obscessed with not being gay.

OMG tell me about it.
The ones that freak out about gayness the most are the easiest to seduce into a homosexual evening when caught all alone.

[Hikari]

I suppose I am in the same situation as Helena, which is sort of difficult to describe to people who aren't familiar with gender issues, who tend to equate gender identity and sexual orientation as the same thing.

It is amazing how insecure most men must be with their sexual orientation, as they constantly seek to prove that other people are gay and they are not. It is frustrating to me though, as some of my coworkers had thought that my marriage to my wife was my "cover", and no one likes to have their commitments doubted. 

Ironically my makeup has never made people question if I am gay, only my feminine mannerisms, what a strange world we live in.

[spacial]

Not so sure that...help! I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Sorry if I misread you Arch.

[Little Darkling]

I'll admit that when I was still presenting as male through highschool, I loved being considered 'gay', because it was a few steps towards being what I wanted to be.

And with how utterly obsessed most males are with being perceived as straight...the easiest way to defuse a situation in public is to hit on the guy that calls you a '->-bleeped-<-got' in front of his friends. It's amazing how quickly someone loses all will to function when they think they've suddenly somehow propositioned someone.

In any case...I was one of two or three openly "gay" people at school. I pranced/flounced (only way to describe it), and was just generally manic/depressive. It's funny though, my closer male friends thought I was straight and narrow all the way through.

Maybe it's just down to how secure someone is with their own sexuality on how willing they are to try to define others'.

[justmeinoz]

Since I have coloured my hair one of the women at work noticed I was wearing mascara, and I just said I had been doing it off and on since Ziggy Stardust, as I have always been a Bowie fan!  Big non-issue after that. 

[LordKAT]

Because that is what they hear of most and if meeting a guy with fem ways, they are more likely to be gay than trans or straight. It is just a matter of the odds.

[hkgurl1480]

I got teased so much for being feminine in character (though not in presentation) through school that I convinced my self i had to be gay...but I've never been attracted to men in the slightest. It was an immense relief to discover I was a lesbian.

I can so relate to this.  I hated being called gay, since i have never been attracted to guys.  But the softer fem personality just drew that sort of attention.  If only they knew the truth.

[cynthialee]

I can so relate to this.  I hated being called gay, since i have never been attracted to guys.  But the softer fem personality just drew that sort of attention. If only they knew the truth.

They would have beat you up instead of just calling you ->-bleeped-<-.