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ITT: Vent about the World Cup

Started by DaddySplicer, June 26, 2010, 04:47:47 PM

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V M

Quote from: tekla on June 28, 2010, 12:32:06 PM
The officials seem to be - across the board - totally incompetent.  If that kind of ref ever did an NFL Eagles/Giants game they'd never get out of the stadium (either one) alive.  They need an instant replay rule.
I agree, a team should be able to challenge a questionable call and have it reviewed

If the call is bad then it should be overturned and then the game resumed

In the NFL each team is alloted an amount of challenges... If the coach throws the challenge flag out on the field they'd better be sure of it because if the call stands as called that team will lose one time out

If after review, the call is overturned, that team retains they're time out to use later

It doesn't take very long to review a call and make a decision on it and it's not like they don't have the technology
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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DaddySplicer

HA. Poor Rooney.

Alright, so. Lining us up for the week:

Tomorrow, Tuesday, we have:

Paraguay vs. Japan @ 10 est

Spain vs. Portugal @ 2:30 est

No way Japan beats Paraguay, my final: 3-1, Paraguay.

Spain against Portugal, hoo. I'm already sweating just thinking about it. I'm just throwing it out there, being bold: 1-0, Portugal. Really.
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spacial

Speaking as someone with about as much interest in football as any other, similar activity, I found this annalysis of the current situation interesting:

QuoteNot only do the English never learn. They appear to thrive on the masochism of outlandish hope followed by tragic defeat, he argues.

"I think people enjoy the ritual. Every four years it happens and takes you back to previous tournaments. It's a communal moment, people sharing the pain with each other at the bus stop. It's that thing about big World Cup games that end in tragedy - usually on penalties, ideally to Germany."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8768122.stm

America, be warned. It's only a game.

The World Cup is a 4 year opportunity to see the finest players, together, playing some of the most entertaining football anywhere.

It really is about taking part.

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V M

America be warned. It's only a game

Of coarse it's only a game and most Americans view it as a children's game...

Hence the term "Soccer Mom" (A woman with a mini van that karts the children about to their games and such)

Yes, we do like to participate and love to compete in sports... But getting most American adults all too hyped up over the World Cup isn't likely to happen

Sure, we'd like our team to do well... But most are not likely to get all too worked up if it doesn't happen
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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no_id

Personally I think USA can be proud of the result they booked during this World Cup: group winner and 1/8th finals. That's really not a bad result. I have to admit hower that I was quite satisfied with Ghana's win; bit of an 'Africa's Hope' sentiment.

As for England... They had a tough tournament. Things just didn't work and they weren't the only big name that had those problems. The match against Germany will always be a 'what if' in the history books. Blatter (Fifa president) announced that the technology topic is back on the agenda and apologised to both England and Mexico for the epic fails.

Now what's left... Paraguay - Japan and Spain - Portugal upcoming thursday. Personally I'm not to keen on placing bets on these matches. Paraguay has a good offense but struggles with solid, rigid defenses (as shown in the match against NZ) which Japan can provide and they're also quite strong in their free kicks with Honda. As for Portugal and Spain... It all depends on whether or not Spain will get their game together. I suspect these teams will give each other space to play the ball around. Portugal seems to have the upper hand at this point, but like I said: it all depends on whether or not Spain will get their game together.

Ah, and my country... We're up to Brasil next. I'm curious to see where that'll wind up. :)
Tara: The one time in my life I thought I was happy, I was a f**kin zombie.

True Blood S3E2
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justmeinoz

We got hit by the same German steamroller as England. 4-1, 4-0, not much difference! 
2006 a diving Italian player, this time an Italian referee with a red card. About time FIFA got with it and introduced a video referee. It would end diving overnight.
Given the decisions against Australia in matches leading up to the WC, maybe FIFA are scared we'll punch above our weight as in rugby, cricket, swimming etc.
Can't have anyone upsetting the Europeans and South Americans. 
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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no_id

Quote from: justmeinoz on June 29, 2010, 08:31:57 AM
Can't have anyone upsetting the Europeans and South Americans.
Lame.

More countries suffered from the fact that FIFA has not allowed any technological elements to aid referees in making the best decisions possible. This year, four years ago, eight years ago and years and years before that back to the day where only a handful of countries entered. It all draws back to the conservative officials who vote ney, not because they dislike one country or the other, but simply because they don't want any change in the field ambiance.
Tara: The one time in my life I thought I was happy, I was a f**kin zombie.

True Blood S3E2
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Metamorph

Video refs are a good idea but that wouldnt have changed a thing in the England game. Yes, I know theres arguements about the mentality of the game have been different if it had been allowed, but the fact is blatent that we sucked! 
I would have liked to see us go farther in the tournament but I was never optimistic because unlike most peoples blind hopes I knew from the start we had no chance.
And what was the deal with Crouch?! He should have been on from the start instead of the Shrek impersonator!Rooney shouldnt have been playing period. ( although very few of the players performances validated their being on the team)

I was Glad to see USA go through to the last 16 and sad to see them go out. Ill probably back Japan now. Ive not seen many games in total but i found them entertaining to watch and thats what counts :)
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no_id

Quote from: Metamorph on June 29, 2010, 09:07:40 AM
Video refs are a good idea but that wouldnt have changed a thing in the England game. Yes, I know theres arguements about the mentality of the game have been different if it had been allowed, but the fact is blatent that we sucked!

Heh I'm replying way too much to this thread... But, I disagree :P
Mentality and morale should always be subject to discipline/professional behaviour. The scoreboard however always influences tactics, strategy/gameplay. Tactics were changed for the 2nd half because England was behind one goal, that meant offense in the second half with the consequence that a lot of space was left open in the back. Had it been 2-2 halftime then tactics would've been different possibly with another outcome... That doesn't mean England played well, it simply means that they were forced (by mistake) to apply different tactics that didn't work in their benefit...  8)
Tara: The one time in my life I thought I was happy, I was a f**kin zombie.

True Blood S3E2
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spacial

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 28, 2010, 05:53:07 PM
America be warned. It's only a game

Of coarse it's only a game and most Americans view it as a children's game...

Hence the term "Soccer Mom" (A woman with a mini van that karts the children about to their games and such)

Yes, we do like to participate and love to compete in sports... But getting most American adults all too hyped up over the World Cup isn't likely to happen

Sure, we'd like our team to do well... But most are not likely to get all too worked up if it doesn't happen

You don't really understand advertising do you Virginia?
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tekla

America be warned. It's only a game

Which is why its a far, far, far - really far off - possibility that it would ever threaten the Holy Trinity of American Sports.  Of which baseball and football (the exciting, high scoring and perfectly set up for television broadcast, American Brand of football) are not just sports, but ways of life almost.  If you're not from - or grew up around - the college football deal in Columbus Ohio, or Ann Arbor Michigan, or in Nebraska, or Iowa, or Texas, or Florida (etc.) its hard to understand that these teams have far more loyalty and fans than any national team we put together.

It might replace hockey in some areas.  Where it really gets watched is by kids (as well illustrated above) and by girls (its the real big girls sport after softball and basketball) and by the growing number of people here of Hispanic decent who really love the game. 
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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V M

The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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spacial

tekla

If you believe that the various sports are popular because of individua choice then you may have a point.

The reality is that sports are promoted by governments as opiates, (in the Marx / religion context), to maintian control.

The significance of soccer is that it promotes tribalism among its supporters. Much more so than with other sports.

The two top sports in the US, American football and baseball promote hero worship. Individuals are more significant than the team.

The benefits of soccer to all governments, including the US, as a means of social management, are obvious. The problem in America is that the commercial benefits from the two main sports are already cemented. Shifting to a different commercial base will be difficult, not just for sponsors, but for the various side economic generators, College schollarships for example.

The real reason soccer hasn't caught on in the US as it has in every other part of the world, is economic. It remains to be seen if there will be a shift toward soccer in the US as governments begin to realise the social benefits of it over hero sports.
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DaddySplicer

Well, I was way the hell off. Jesus. Alright, so, here were today's finals:

After a shoot out (5-3), Paraguay won over the 0-0 draw to Japan and advances to their first quarterfinals.

If you didn't get a chance to view it, this match was crazy. It was very raw and purely defencive, leaving you sort of in your seat, bobbing your head around to try to see if someone might actually try to do something clever. Alas, it was played like an early-year high school scrimmage.

Spain, not surprisingly, go into the quarterfinals after a 1-0 over Portugal. I had hoped for the same outcome, but for Portugal, because I'm a nice guy.

This was a beautiful game. Poor reffing, as per usual, especially I think what with Ricardo Coasta being given a red card. He used his arms to launch himself into a good leap, and it was seen as a possible hand ball, I guess. Bullsh*t. Anyway, Cristiano Ronaldo, you remember that guy? Most expensive player, all this yack about him? Right, well his last goal was the last against N. Korea, which doesn't say anything in a match like that was. This guy was a ghost in today's match, when Portugal needed it most against Spain. Maybe someone is buying him out, I don't know.
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tekla

I'm not sure about the hero worship part, just ask Brett Farve about the mail he got when he signed with the Vikings.  But it tends to be regional and civic far more than it's individual.  And, like lots of nationalistic sports in Europe, there are the teams representing far deeper and more historical dislikes and grips.  Be it New York/Boston or France/UK/Germany games.  Sometimes they end up one sided, or all against one.  People in SF HATE the Dodgers, people in LA tend not be be all that anti-Giant, largely because the Dodgers win most of the time and the Giants don't.  Or the way everyone else in the Pac10 hates USC football, or the people in the Midwest hate the Nebraska football program because those teams win consistently.

But, it's never been a government/national deal.  Even the Olympics are not nearly as big a deal as the 3 pro seasons are and the college football/basketball playoffs. And those have always been controlled (either by the pro owners, or by the major colleges and universities) on a private level, not as a government deal, and your right, the money in it is HUGE.  So, because of that the best little boy jocks get funneled and trained in one of those three sports from very young, and not as some government program, but through lower level school sports and stuff like Little League and Pop Warner football, and CYO/police leagues in basketball.  The very best American athletes tend to end up playing football, basketball or baseball - cause that's where the money, the fame and the history rest.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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V M

The two most important aspects of sports in the USA are TEAMWORK and FAIR PLAY... This is taught at an early age

Everything is all about TEAMWORK and FAIR PLAY

Sure there are athletes who stand out and become famous and are seen as sports heroes... This is based upon their talent and merit and they will be the first to tell you that it would not be possible without teamwork... They will be the first to praise the other members of the team

Yes they do make allot of money... Many US athletes also do allot of charity work all over the world

Anyhow, to get back on subject, It will be interesting to see who will actually walk away with the 2010 World Cup
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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confused

ok this is probably a late response , but about the england-germany game , a friend of mine who's a football (soccer) addict told me that if that goal was counted it would have been possible that england wins , because they had to push everyone to attack and no one at defense , and this kinda makes since to me

and i'm starting to follow that WC thing , it's getting interesting , i was happy for Spain today , and to be honest i'm looking forward to see what ghana will do because they were surprisingly good even though they're not as 'big' as the other teams like Brazil ,Argentina...etc (i always cheer for the weeker team , it's in my blood)
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no_id

So Japan and Portugal go home, seems like I wasn't too off with my predictions. ;)
Time for the quarter finals, I wonder what everyone's expecting from these.

Tomorrow we have Netherlands - Brasil. Brasil seems to have their game together more than the Dutch so right now I'm leaning towards Brasil, but like with Spain it all depends on whether or not The Netherlands will put their quality to use. I'm expecting either a beat down or an oldskool tie with a Dutch player missing a penalty (as history demands). ;)

Also tomorrow: Uruguay - Ghana. Defense doesn't seem to be Ghana's strongest point when it comes to players like Suarez. Uruguay has more scoring ability and Ghana's goalie Kingston, well... We'll just have to see whether his dance steps are off or on this game. Surely reaching the quarter finals has given Ghana some wings, but I'm afraid that won't be enough.
Tara: The one time in my life I thought I was happy, I was a f**kin zombie.

True Blood S3E2
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spacial

#38
Quote from: tekla on June 29, 2010, 08:18:09 PM


But, it's never been a government/national deal.  Even the Olympics are not nearly as big a deal as the 3 pro seasons are and the college football/basketball playoffs. And those have always been controlled (either by the pro owners, or by the major colleges and universities) on a private level, not as a government deal, and your right, the money in it is HUGE.  So, because of that the best little boy jocks get funneled and trained in one of those three sports from very young, and not as some government program, but through lower level school sports and stuff like Little League and Pop Warner football, and CYO/police leagues in basketball.  The very best American athletes tend to end up playing football, basketball or baseball - cause that's where the money, the fame and the history rest.

I do understand your scepticism about government and sport. But what I referring to is not the players, as such, but the encouragement of spectators.

The players are the tools of the deal. Any money they earn for themselves is relitively insignificant. Some earn huge sums, most don't.

But while the players make up the spectacle. The spectators are the focus. It is they who create the vast bulk of the money generated. Mostly in merchandicing and association.

If you look at the way the spectators of different sports behave. Here in the UK, there are three principal sports. Cricket, which is a hero sport, similar to your baseball or American football. Rugby, a full contact sport and football, (soccer), the spectators behave very differently.

It isn't that individuals are any more different or similar than anyone else. But when we join a group, as humans, we naturally, if unconsciously, tend to act according to the manner of the group.

The latter two sports mentioned, are both group sports in that the spectators tend to look at the team rather than the individuals.

With baseball, for example, the focus tends to be on single players, because at any one time, only two players will be essentially active. The batter and the pitcher. The batter and the basekeeper. And so on.

With American football, the game is designed to highlight and individual, the quarterback, with the rest of the team acting as backup.

With basketball, by contrast, the focus in on the team. Individual players stand out. Frequently, they may achieve star status in their own right, but they function as part of a team, standing out because of their contribution to the team, rather than because the support the team has made to their achievement.

How this transcribes into crowd behaviour of course, is another matter. Since I am not in the states I haven't had an opportunity to observe it.

In the case of football, (soccer), the focus is on the team. Again, individual players may stand out and be stars in their own right, but the team is the cohesion that binds the supporters and creates the tribal nature of the supporters culture.

The players are a side issue here. The important issue is the supporters. How, being a suppoter affects the nature of society as a whole and how this affects the position of the individual within the context of society.

There is no actual skill in supporting, other than having the mental vacancy to collectively work themselves into a frenzy. But the group, supporters of a particualr team, form a co-operative, based upon an equality.

The rivalry between different groups of supporters creates a social structure where supporters of winners assume personal credit and achievement. The observation of the utter futility of people supporting the England football team is a significant case in point. Failure to support the team, before they have been knocked out of the competition is seen as virtual treason.

I suggest that there are essentially several reasons the US probably won't promote soccer too highly in the near future.

Firstly. It is unlikely they will win. The US undoubtedly has the potential to win. It's culture is competitive. It certainly has the local expertese to train suitable athletes. But it, so far, lacks the background experience. That it can reach the finals, repeatedly, in the last 20 or so years, is a testament to its enormous potential. I suspect that, with suitable incentive, the US could quite easily, reach the final game. But once it has done that, the position of Soccer in the US will have irrevolkably changed and there would never be a going back. The social consequences with the US would be significant, dismantling the existing basis of social tribalism, namely persecutory group. But the internationl consequences would be much more so. The working classes in the us would begin comparing themselves with the working classes of other societies, through the vicarious achievement of individual players. That will lead to the tendency of Americans to see themselves as an exclusive group, secretly superior to all others, needing to be continually vigilent of outsiders, attempting to usurp their apparent differences, to disappear.

Secondly, the commercial profits, which in any major sport are almost entirely derived from merchandicising and sponsorships, are already well established in American football and baseball. Probably basketball as well. Shifting a large part of this to an unknown is unlikely to appeal to investors without significant justification.

Thirdly, the current positioning in the US, where soccer is portrayed as a woman's or children's activity serves the purpose of allowing those in the US, who are socially and personally of the type who would collectively support sport, rather than play it, and maintain sufficient self respect not to be utterly embarrassed by this preposterus contradiction, to maintain their own self image of effective winners, without actually having to participate. (The supporters, not the team. The team being irrelevant.)

I've just realised I have once again, produced a long response which you might find tedious to read. I apologise.
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justmeinoz

In the NRL  here (Rugby League, not Union) the referee can call for a video judges decision on a try if he hasn't had a clear view. They do it several times most games.
Sometimes it doesn't help and they go with the benefit of the doubt.   Video is also examined after the game and players can front the tribunal for dangerous tackles, incidents off the ball etc.
It seems to work ok.
( From what I have seen of American football it couldn't slow the game down any more than it is already! >:-) )
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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