Am I MTF Transgendered or a Gay Male

[Just Kate]

<= Extremely effeminate male, likes males.  Gay male?  Maybe.

<= Strong desire to be female because it more closely matches his patterns of behavior, interests, and sexual desires.  Gay male?  Maybe.

<= Believes he is actually male as much as he resents it, not female.  Gay male?  Maybe.

<= Still prefers to be female and feels distress when thought of as male.

Regardless of motivation, I still have felt very powerful GID and that is what I think makes me transgendered - even though in every other aspect I may seem more like a gay male.

[Rosa]

Are you trying to look like a woman on the outside? Do you feel the need to? I personally never visited a ts forum before I wanted to become female on the outside too.

Of course women think about sex too I wonder why you mention this? Are you affraid of not wanting to ever have sex again if you would transition?

Not trying to present as a woman, but I am allowing myself to be more feminine.  I am letting my hair grow out, I am wearing more floral shirts (I love floral prints), wearing woman's perfume and deodorant, using some make up like lip gloss and powder to cover blemishes, but nothing that obvious.  I would like to present as a woman sometime to see how I feel about it, but I would need to be passable to avoid any extreme self-consciousness.

Comment about sex was because some members think that I am obsessed with sex or at least discuss it quite a bit, which makes them think I might be more male than female.
Post Merge: July 27, 2010, 11:33:55 PM

  Anyway, I think that, at this point in your life, if you're questioning whether or not you're Transsexual, the fact that you're questioning is a good indicator that you may not be so. You could also be Transgendered but not necessarily a candidate for full transition or GRS. It could be argued that "true" transsexuality is pretty near a medical emergency.. Untreated, lots of us are deeply depressed, suicidal and deeply troubled  with our gender identity. Have you ever felt this way? If you were told that you had no choice but to keep on living the way you are, would you be OK with that?
  You talked about the way you felt with a straight guy....  Something I realized in the TS dating scene is that there's no shortage of guys who consider themselves straight who want to date a pre-op T-Girl. What they're really looking for is a way to fulfill their gay or bisexual needs without having to admit to themselves that they're not straight. The way you felt as the  more passive or submissive person in the relationship doesn't make you trans, it just means that you prefer the more passive role. That role is present in all types of relationships.  It's really the way you feel in the ABSENCE of a relationship that points toward your gender identity.

I think that because I am questioning my gender, I may very well be transgendered.  I never allowed myself to ask the question when I had a healthy view of women.  It has just taken me a long time to get to this place.  I have dealt with depression and suicidal thoughts much of my life, but never knew exactly why, other than I was sad and did not feel accepted.  I thought it was about being gay (didn't come out until my mid 30's) but perhaps it goes deeper.  Thinking that I may be a woman is giving me a sense of peace in one way.  I need to explore this. 

It was my boyfriend and how he treated me that started my current gender questioning. He is not gay, at least by his cultural standards, because he had nothing to do with my male parts and has never seen them.  Though I present as a man, he treated me as a girl sexually and other wise.  He was my boyfriend, but I was his girlfriend - not his boyfriend.  It may sound strange, but someone in my position is almost considered a third gender in his culture, but most present as woman, whether they have SRS or not (most don't because of cost).  This may be why, at this point, I see more of a connection between gender and sexuality (not necessarily sexual orientation). 

[JessicaR]

Are you familiar with the Harry Benjamin Gender Disorientation Scale? If you've never seen it it might be worth a look... I don't think it's all inclusive but it might help you start to figure things out 

  Also, try to find a Transgender support group... Web support is great but being in the same room with others like you is so validating! Even if you have to travel a bit to get to one I think it's worth it to meet other gender variant people and see what they're like.

  You could be what some call a "late onset" transsexual.. (help me out, folks cuz I'm not quite sure about the specifics)  apparently, some don't even realize they're trans until their 50's or 60's.

 

[lilacwoman]

[quote author=Robertina link=

I hope someday that I can afford a real gender therapist.  I thought my psychiatrist could help - first time to see her today, but I left feeling worse.  She prefers the phrase "alternate lifestyle"  to gender confused and also reminded me that many people think that being gay or transgendered is a choice!with sex, though I love it, the emotional connection and cuddling is more important to me.
[/quote]
yep you really need a 'proper' therapist.

[glendagladwitch]

I hope someday that I can afford a real gender therapist.  I thought my psychiatrist could help - first time to see her today, but I left feeling worse.  She prefers the phrase "alternate lifestyle"  to gender confused and also reminded me that many people think that being gay or transgendered is a choice!with sex, though I love it, the emotional connection and cuddling is more important to me.

Wow, I can't believe a psychiatrist exists who would think it is a choice.  She's no neuroscientist, that's for sure.  95% of neuroscientists agree that all behavioral traits are programmed by physical brain structures that produce millions of different trace hormone levels.  One day, they say, we'll be able to give bank robbers a pill and put them in charge of the bank.  We just have several decades ahead of exploring and classifying all of those millions of hormones and their effects.

[Rosa]

I told her that I never met anyone that chose to be gay or transgendered, but she says there are many as well as many theories in support of choice - I just needed to Google them!  I should have told her that there are also people who still believe the Earth is flat.

She really put a burr on my backside.

[JessicaR]

Yep, those "professionals" are in the same group of religious conservatives that believe homosexuality and transsexuality can be "cured." Give her a call and ask if she does exorcisms, too.

[Rosa]

Yep, those "professionals" are in the same group of religious conservatives that believe homosexuality and transsexuality can be "cured." Give her a call and ask if she does exorcisms, too.

Unfortunately, I tried that once.  What can I say - it didn't work!

[Cruelladeville]

There's nothing to stop ultra-conservative bible-belt worshippers from becoming doctors and medics...

This is why you always have to shop around....

There was a TV doc here in the UK a year or so back following a powerful woman about (lawyer)...whom was very vocally pro life fundamental Christian type when on hidden-cam...(turned out a US church was financing her...

She was getting many doctors to seminars in large numbers....but the undercover cameras would have made you weep....they had a very peculiar view of Muslims too.....

But then again....dinosaur fossils are object placed by devil designed to test your faith...aren't they? Oh yes...and the earth is only 4000 years old cause God made it....in seven days.

What's chilling here in the UK is that in (faith) schools creationalism (intelligent design) is put forward as the defacto stance.... and any teacher that bucks this nonsense is fired or levered out.

I pity any child that's contaminated with this crap....these people are dangerous they claim they can 'cure' homosexuals that turn toward faith and accept God...

They totally believe that your personae is a lifestyle choice...sheeeesssh!!

(But back to the thread)....and my diagnostic process

Yep....my first specialist was a female psychosexual therapist....(Harley St).....whom on my sixth visit....( I couldn't at that stage verbalise my problemo you see I was so ashamed of it).... so post leaving her office...getting changed in the loo and re-entering as me....

She gasped... sympathised profusely and said with some certainty "I'm fairly sure your transgendered....but on that score I simply can't help you further"....she did tell me though it would be a very tough journey....she was absolutely right. And did push me back to my GP (whom back in the 90's was also clueless)...I was the very first person she'd come into contact with.... and ironically actually contacted me some years later for help with her second case encountered...but I digress.

I was then shipped onto an NHS Freudian specialist....this entailed a dark room....I couldn't see him well sitting 20ft away.... after 6 weeks I realised this was utterly useless too... "did I ever have sexual feelings for my mother" (what b#ll#cks)...

I finally found an Adler based chappie which was finally, and much to my relief the only successful way into my inner-self's release...and acceptance...

And then finally I moved onto Dr Russell Reid, whom for me was highly pragmatic man, whom showed me personally immense kindness when dealing with what's still for many other medics a highly controversial field....

(This is because its fraught with complexity/misunderstandings still).... and much as with everything else no two trans peeps are ever exactly the same.... and there are many forms of inbetweenies too...whom are very happy and settled in that form....

I applaud inter-sex folk whom choose to be fully accepting of themselves as they are and in fact abhor and resist any form of intervention...

Good for them....

There is no black & white only multiple shades of grey....

[Izumi]

Wow, I can't believe a psychiatrist exists who would think it is a choice.  She's no neuroscientist, that's for sure.  95% of neuroscientists agree that all behavioral traits are programmed by physical brain structures that produce millions of different trace hormone levels.  One day, they say, we'll be able to give bank robbers a pill and put them in charge of the bank.  We just have several decades ahead of exploring and classifying all of those millions of hormones and their effects.

Heh, if i could take a pill to be a guy like everyone else, i would have taken it.  Anyone that CHOOSES to transition when they dont have to is nuts.
Post Merge: July 29, 2010, 07:22:20 AM

I told her that I never met anyone that chose to be gay or transgendered, but she says there are many as well as many theories in support of choice - I just needed to Google them!  I should have told her that there are also people who still believe the Earth is flat.

She really put a burr on my backside.

Well there are even more theories that say otherwise and a lot are not theories but have medical backing behind them showing connections with TS and genetics, soon they will be able to swab your skin and say yup, your TS,  but not until the future.  Being a choice means psychological studies mainly and interviews, not as reliable as medical science, you cant find the choice gene after all, but you can find the gene sequence in the Y chromosome that makes for more difficult binding of antigens to cells. 

"Australia's Prince Henry's Institute this month released the results of the largest ever study of transsexual genetics, which compared the length of the androgen receptor (AR) gene in 112 male-to-female transsexuals and a control group of 250 "normal" men. The gene—which is known to make circulating testosterone less effective at signaling, circulating, and just generally doing its thing—turned out to be longer in transsexuals. Less-potent testosterone could, in turn, affect the development of the brain in the womb, "under-masculinizing" it and making it more structurally similar to a female brain."

(taken from http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-11/discovery-transsexual-gene-raises-more-questions-answers)




Post Merge: July 29, 2010, 08:25:24 AM

Yep, those "professionals" are in the same group of religious conservatives that believe homosexuality and transsexuality can be "cured." Give her a call and ask if she does exorcisms, too.

heh, i am religious, conservative, and TS.  I believe i can be cured, with Transition, as its the only treatment available that seems to work, cant complain so far, doing good, GID almost gone, but if they did have a pill to make me be able to think like a guy, i would have taken it before transition, too late know.   I am also a professional, oh no!

I tried to exorcise myself but that didnt work out, i lost my voice saying "Demons out" but on the bright side my attic isnt making noise anymore.  The only demon i know of is my X-Boss.
Post Merge: July 29, 2010, 10:40:55 AM

There's nothing to stop ultra-conservative bible-belt worshippers from becoming doctors and medics...

This is why you always have to shop around....

There was a TV doc here in the UK a year or so back following a powerful woman about (lawyer)...whom was very vocally pro life fundamental Christian type when on hidden-cam...(turned out a US church was financing her...

She was getting many doctors to seminars in large numbers....but the undercover cameras would have made you weep....they had a very peculiar view of Muslims too.....

But then again....dinosaur fossils are object placed by devil designed to test your faith...aren't they? Oh yes...and the earth is only 4000 years old cause God made it....in seven days.

What's chilling here in the UK is that in (faith) schools creationalism (intelligent design) is put forward as the defacto stance.... and any teacher that bucks this nonsense is fired or levered out.

I pity any child that's contaminated with this crap....these people are dangerous they claim they can 'cure' homosexuals that turn toward faith and accept God...

They totally believe that your personae is a lifestyle choice...sheeeesssh!!

(But back to the thread)....and my diagnostic process

Yep....my first specialist was a female psychosexual therapist....(Harley St).....whom on my sixth visit....( I couldn't at that stage verbalise my problemo you see I was so ashamed of it).... so post leaving her office...getting changed in the loo and re-entering as me....

She gasped... sympathised profusely and said with some certainty "I'm fairly sure your transgendered....but on that score I simply can't help you further"....she did tell me though it would be a very tough journey....she was absolutely right. And did push me back to my GP (whom back in the 90's was also clueless)...I was the very first person she'd come into contact with.... and ironically actually contacted me some years later for help with her second case encountered...but I digress.

I was then shipped onto an NHS Freudian specialist....this entailed a dark room....I couldn't see him well sitting 20ft away.... after 6 weeks I realised this was utterly useless too... "did I ever have sexual feelings for my mother" (what b#ll#cks)...

I finally found an Adler based chappie which was finally, and much to my relief the only successful way into my inner-self's release...and acceptance...

And then finally I moved onto Dr Russell Reid, whom for me was highly pragmatic man, whom showed me personally immense kindness when dealing with what's still for many other medics a highly controversial field....

(This is because its fraught with complexity/misunderstandings still).... and much as with everything else no two trans peeps are ever exactly the same.... and there are many forms of inbetweenies too...whom are very happy and settled in that form....

I applaud inter-sex folk whom choose to be fully accepting of themselves as they are and in fact abhor and resist any form of intervention...

Good for them....

There is no black & white only multiple shades of grey....

Well just because some people are zealots doesnt mean religion as a whole is wrong, many good and bad things come from it after all.  Even the US was founded on principles that are religious in nature.  Its not really religion that is the issue as much as human interpretation of it.  The bible is said to be the word of god, yet it was written by men, men with agendas who pick and chose what they believed to be right over the years, and just like a rumor circulating around a room of people it changes with each person.  If you look hard, all the principles are basically the same, be a good person.

You also have to take into account that if god is superior to us, god has vast knowledge way more then we could understand, especially 2000 years ago.  Try explaining how the internet works to someone 2000 years ago, they would think its magic.  Think about it this way, how do you tell someone how you made them if your god:  Well you see, first i created the laws of physics which consist of this and that, then i caused the big bang which turned all these fields of energy to form simple molicules of matter which came together and made suns which produce elements which when the sun dies and explodes is spread out into the universe, some of these elements formed amino acids which came together to form simple organisms which adapted to environments and made for more and more complex organisms till well you showed up.  The would look at you like HUH~~~~~?  I am a goat herder dude...  Since we are made from the dust of stars, its easier to say.... yeah i made you from dirt ok..., as a goat herder you know what dirt is.  Plus 4000 of our years and 4000 of gods years might be different, after all a year on neptune is 164.8 Earth years. 

Woah all this science and religion .... making my head hurt.

I know a lot of TS are atheist in nature probably because religion now is pretty hijacked by people who ignore really what is in the book in the first place, but we bash them here like they bash us, is that the right path, you want them to understand you but you would not give the same courtesy to them calling them religious freaks, bible thumpers, etc... just like they call us ->-bleeped-<-s and freaks?  Sometimes if we both put down the hate for a second you might be able to see more then what is in front of you and find common bonds to build off of.

[Rosa]

What I thought was laughable was my psych's suggestion to Google it, plus, she said many of these theories are from religious groups.  Well, yeah, the same groups that used scripture to condone slavery and misogyny.  I'm usually very tolerant of religion and have been a pretty religious person myself until more recently, but I draw the line when someone else tries to push their views on me, demean my views, or take away my rights (or the rights of others). 

This doctor appeared to be of Indian (the country) descent, and for some reason I thought she might be more opened minded, but of course, she could be a fundamentalist nut for all I know.  Maybe she doesn't belong to the APA, but honestly, I expected a little more from her especially since she is the only psychiatrist at this clinic - the only non-religious clinic in town.

I wish I could get my money back!  I could have used that money for 2 1/2 visits to my counselor, who I think is going to work out. 

I'm feeling more and more like I am transgendered, but, I think that I do need to present myself as a woman sometime to see how I feel.  As many of you have said, no one can tell me the answer and you often have to just try and see what happens. 

Sometimes I get discouraged, like lately, especially when women have hurt me.  Then I think maybe I am no gender - some aberration stuck in the middle.  I've just never felt accepted by any group - like I never fit in.  I felt some acceptance when I came out as a gay male, but it just always felt that though I was more comfortable with my sexual orientation, I was still trying to be something that I wasn't - but I didn't know anything else or how to be anything different.  Probably goes back to what some of you have said in another thread about being a woman is being yourself without trying to be something for someone else.

[lilacwoman]

/quote]

Indian as in Asian? Or just sort of coffee skinned?  You have to remember that in many Asian and Eastern countries the only TS are dead ones...or are relegated to sex trade.

[Colleen Ireland]

Are you familiar with the Harry Benjamin Gender Disorientation Scale? If you've never seen it it might be worth a look... I don't think it's all inclusive but it might help you start to figure things out 

I just had a look at it (googled it), and it looks like it should probably be updated a bit.  For one thing, pay close attention to the disclaimer at the top - it references Kinsey's scale of sexual preference, and attempts to draw conclusions about TS based on sexual preference.  I'm no expert, but I've always thought that's a load of hooey.  As an M2F, who says I can't be primarily attracted to women?

You could be what some call a "late onset" transsexual.. (help me out, folks cuz I'm not quite sure about the specifics)  apparently, some don't even realize they're trans until their 50's or 60's.

Me <--- case in point.  I'm 54, married 31 years, 3 "children" (18, 24, 26), and have been in deep denial for most of the past 30 years.  Thought the issue was ancient history - dead and buried.  Uh-oh... nope.  Struggled with it in my youth, and now it comes back to bite me in the azz...  Go figure.  Robertina, I truly hope you get it figured out.  When I first started re-questioning myself about 2 months ago, I went through emotional hell - I was constantly on the verge of tears or panic attacks.  No WAY this could still be real!  No WAY!!  Uh, yup, way.  Crap!

[Rosa]

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one questioning gender later in life.  Decades ago I briefly allowed myself to question whether I might be a woman, but I said "no way, I can't be."  In hind sight, I had a poor view of women and I think that greatly influenced me. 

Yeah - I think the doctor is from the country of India - at least she looks like it and her name sounds like it. 

I was also a bit puzzled about that scale since it seemed to be equating sexual orientation and gender.

[Lacey Lynne]

I wondered that too and I thought about it the big difference however is that camp men are happy as men, I am not happy with my body and am stifled by it.

IMHO, Pebbles has touched upon the heart of the matter. 

[JessicaR]

ooooooo, Izumi, you got my dander up.... 

  Now why would you mess with a nice T-Girl like yourself by filling her head with religious conservatism?  That's just not right!!! Well... it's too far on the Right... Oh, you know what I mean...

   I'm a Transsexual, Bisexual Pagan, so my bitterness towards Judeo-Christianity has more of a bite.....  I'm evil on three fronts! I am apparently a unique abomination to "religious radicals" (I'm being nice.)  It's easy to rationalize Transsexuality as a purely medical condition that's treated with transition.... I've done it, too. As my transition is coming to an end I'm really beginning to see the advantages of living in stealth and forgetting I was ever Trans. I don't think we can forget, however, the spectrum of gender that exists outside of "true" Transsexuals; many who will never come out on the other side of transition will suffer from the constant assault by religious extremism. As we've explored in this forum string, we share many of the same battles as the GLB community and it's the religious right that we're all most frequently fighting...
  I mean, really.... a Transsexual conservative..... What would Rush say? 

[Rosa]

I don't think we can forget, however, the spectrum of gender that exists outside of "true" Transsexuals; many who will never come out on the other side of transition will suffer from the constant assault by religious extremism.

Looking at the situation realistically, this is probably where I will end up since my age, health, and finances make SRS highly unlikely.  I'll be looked at as somewhere in between male and female. 

[Genevieve Swann]

Most of us are aware that gender preference or maybe the true gender you feel and sexual orentation are different.

[Izumi]

ooooooo, Izumi, you got my dander up.... 

  Now why would you mess with a nice T-Girl like yourself by filling her head with religious conservatism?  That's just not right!!! Well... it's too far on the Right... Oh, you know what I mean...

   I'm a Transsexual, Bisexual Pagan, so my bitterness towards Judeo-Christianity has more of a bite.....  I'm evil on three fronts! I am apparently a unique abomination to "religious radicals" (I'm being nice.)  It's easy to rationalize Transsexuality as a purely medical condition that's treated with transition.... I've done it, too. As my transition is coming to an end I'm really beginning to see the advantages of living in stealth and forgetting I was ever Trans. I don't think we can forget, however, the spectrum of gender that exists outside of "true" Transsexuals; many who will never come out on the other side of transition will suffer from the constant assault by religious extremism. As we've explored in this forum string, we share many of the same battles as the GLB community and it's the religious right that we're all most frequently fighting...
  I mean, really.... a Transsexual conservative..... What would Rush say? 

Heh, my liberal friends look at me and go, you know "theoretically you shouldnt exist but you do.  Wont this make the universe explode?" 

The problem with religious right isnt that they are bad people, they are just misguided.  The just recycle what their preacher tells them but dont take the time to actually read the book for themselves.  There are a lot of things in the bible we just dont do anymore, because it stupid mainly, for example, their is a part on roofing in the bible, yeah roofing.... if you dont build your roof correctly and someone falls off and hurts themselves, apparently your going to hell.  Take note all you contractors that want to cut corners!

Anyway, if you really take time to understand what the book is really saying, you dont really have problems with transexuals.  Especially when you consider the fact that you are made up of the spirit, soul, and body (all three make you, you).  However when you die the body stays behind.  My preacher said do you sleep with men, I said yes, I am attracted to men, then that means your gay, and are sinning, he replied.  I said, "I am not gay, if its true that the body is a vessel for the spirit and soul, and all 3 are gods image, taking note that the body can change at anytime being maimed or even getting an earing, then that is to say the soul and spirit makeup the bulk of gods image, especially when we leave our body behind when we die... so, let me ask you this... what sex is my soul?".  He said I dont know, souls are beyond that.  So I asked him, so can you really say you know god's will well enough that this is not how he made me, soul, spirit, and body?, that maybe this is my test of faith? to be true to what i have always been?.  He didnt know how to answer, but i wasnt kicked out of church ^_^.

By the way i dont hate you for being your religion, you can worship what you want, believe what you want.  Just because i am one religion and your another doesnt mean we cannot get along, religion is and should always be a personal matter imo, whenever you make it public and force beliefs on another, then that is when problems start.

So to sum it up, the religious right is ignorant and would rather have someone else read their book for them, and give their opinions rather then seeing the text for what it really is.  If you look really close, basically the bible says, be a good person and you will go to heaven. 

Yes i am also conservative (fiscally), i dont believe in large government because i used to live in the USSR, and trust me, it looks good on paper but doesnt work in real life.  See thats why russian's drink lots of vodka, they drank before till communism looked good, now they drink because they have to live in it.  heh.    Anyway... its Russia now, not the USSR.  Its kinda like Diet USSR.  Tastes just as bad, just less calories.