Would you date a theist?

[shiinee]

I'm dating a theist, and we discuss religion fairly often; in fact, we got to know each other via intense debate in a science/religion seminar.  I find it fascinating to hear about his beliefs and he enjoys putting them through the "wringer" of my criticism.  By my understanding, it's mostly a matter of different feelings - we don't really differ on scientific principles, he just "feels the presence of god."  Also yes, he is cute. 

I'm kind of surprised by all the stereotyping of theists in here.  Yeah, there are plenty of wackjobs who sleep with a bible under their pillow, but that behavior isn't a requirement for membership in all religious groups.  I'd call someone a theist if zie has a religion, or believes there is something called god.  Under that definition, it doesn't have to include going to church, praying, evangelizing, or even disagreeing with you on the truth value of any particular statement.  "I am religious/spiritual" =/= "I believe in god" =/= "god exists, and you're wrong if you say zie doesn't."

For those who categorically refuse to date a theist, do you define theist differently?

[Nathan.]

For those who categorically refuse to date a theist, do you define theist differently?

I define a theist as someone who believe in god or gods.

I probably couldn't date a theist because i'm a fan of rational thinking and believing in god(s), unicorns, lepricons etc isn't rational at all. I say probably because I wouldn't rule it out anymore but it's not likely.

[Robert F.]

I probably wouldn't, just because almost every theist I know has at some time argued with me over it. I know exactly one other atheist, who I happen to be interested in ^_^ I don't know, maybe that could happen some time. But I probably would not ever date a theist, unless religion was something that we never discussed.

[Aegir]

For those who categorically refuse to date a theist, do you define theist differently?

I define the same way as you, someone who believes in god/gods. I've had bad experiences with theist friends and at one point a theist lover (legit theists, not peer-pressure religion-havers who would be atheist if they weren't afraid of the ramifications on their social lives) suddenly deciding god/a god/ess was talking to them or telling them to do something silly. I couldn't handle a romantic partner coming up to me and telling me they met Freyja under a willow in a thunderstorm or that Christ commanded them to go on a 2-month missionary expedition to some bumfrack backwoods part of China.

It's something I've personally had issues with in my life and that's why I'm... theist shy, I suppose.

[VeryGnawty]

I probably couldn't date a theist because i'm a fan of rational thinking

Theism is just the belief that somebody created the universe out of nothing.  Materialism is the belief that nobody created the universe out of nothing.

The rationality of both of these mindsets is questionable.  As an atheist, how do you solve the problem of the formation of the universe?  Theism and atheism both require a first cause to explain the universe.  They just differ on the nature of that cause.  Both are irrational.  The first cause, having come out of nothing, didn't have any impetus to form the universe in the way that it did.  Whatever explanation for the first cause must necessarily be irrational, because one must assume characteristics on a phenomenon which has no reason to have characteristics.  If one assumes that the first cause has no characteristics at all, then the universe cannot exist, so we know that assumption is false.  Theists assume that the first cause has a personality.  Atheists assume that the first cause just happened to be a certain way to form the universe as it exists.  All of these assumptions are completely irrational.

For that matter, explaining how something could have come out of nothing is extremely difficult to do without being irrational.

[Nathan.]

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god(s). No assumption or belief just the lack of one. The only thing all atheists have in common is the lack of belief in god(s).

Theism is the assumption that a god exists. Totaly irrational.

[VeryGnawty]

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god(s)

That's all well and dandy.  But I'm still waiting for an explanation of the formation of the universe (with or without a god) which is rational.

[xAndrewx]

Wow, interesting topic. I guess I'm a theist who dated an atheist. Thing is, I never talk about my believes and never really think about them unless someone outright asks me. I don't believe in the bible but I do believe there is some higher power, doesn't mean it's something I wanna talk about specially if my partner believes different and doesn't like to hear about it. Besides I'm all for people coming up with different answers and opinions, makes life interesting and not all robots who share the same single belief So does that make me date-able by those of you who are atheists? Just curious.

[Berserk]

Yes I'm aware of my epic gravedigging...but I wanted to reply

Theism is just the belief that somebody created the universe out of nothing.  Materialism is the belief that nobody created the universe out of nothing.

The rationality of both of these mindsets is questionable.  As an atheist, how do you solve the problem of the formation of the universe?  Theism and atheism both require a first cause to explain the universe.  They just differ on the nature of that cause.  Both are irrational.  The first cause, having come out of nothing, didn't have any impetus to form the universe in the way that it did.  Whatever explanation for the first cause must necessarily be irrational, because one must assume characteristics on a phenomenon which has no reason to have characteristics.  If one assumes that the first cause has no characteristics at all, then the universe cannot exist, so we know that assumption is false.  Theists assume that the first cause has a personality.  Atheists assume that the first cause just happened to be a certain way to form the universe as it exists.  All of these assumptions are completely irrational.

For that matter, explaining how something could have come out of nothing is extremely difficult to do without being irrational.

I disagree that atheism is irrational as far as its disbelief in any deity or any one sentient cause/designer. First of all, atheism does not imply anything as far as a person's views on the universe's development and some atheists may be completely uninterested in the subject. Atheism merely implies disbelief in a deity.

As far as the "irrationality" in believing that "something came from nothing," the big bang theory does not technically imply that the universe developed from nothing, but rather is in itself a series of causes and effects. Especially as we continue to learn more and more about other galaxies, I think it would be ludicrous at this point to really state that any of it had an absolute "beginning" and when you think about it the very term "beginning" is a human assumption. A series of causes and effects like the big bang do not necessarily require an absolute first cause. Even what we know of human evolution from a single celled organism into what we are today supports that it is not irrational to consider that a larger entity would eventually come from a microscopic one.

Oh and to answer the question: I'm not sure I could ever date a theist. I like debating and in my experience debates with theists are pointless because they typically explain everything that they cannot explain logically through theism and seem to put scientific theory on par with faith. I would become far too annoyed lol

[Pica Pica]

I think a theist is rational - in that they are using reason, but it's reason that starts at a different place.

[Maddie Secutura]

I would date a theist.  There are enough people who would have a problem dating me as it is.  I don't need to add an ideological filter.

[Gabby]

Nope. I actually prefer old-fashioned "I'm religious because I was raised that way" to people who came to theistic beliefs via some sort of thought process. And I find it insulting when people insert their God into my science.

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals Himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.
—Albert Einstein

Remember this is Kyril's science, Einstein.

[kyril]

That's all well and dandy.  But I'm still waiting for an explanation of the formation of the universe (with or without a god) which is rational.

We're not under any obligation to be able to explain everything, or to answer questions that don't make any sense. Cause-and-effect wouldn't operate in the way that we understand it in the absence of the current space-time dimensions anyway. It doesn't make sense to talk about 'what caused the Big Bang' or 'what existed before the Big Bang', because there was no 'before' and there was no 'cause' in the way that we mean them, because there was no time.

Because of that, your assertion that materialism is 'the belief that nobody created the universe out of nothing' doesn't make sense. There was no creation. And there was no 'nothing' - all of the mass/energy in the universe has existed for as long as time has existed.

Science is restricted to studying what's inside the universe (for now). If if fact there is space 'outside the universe' - if the universe is a subspace of some higher-order vector space - then if you defined your time axis along some vector normal to all our dimensions, it might be possible to talk meaningfully about what happened before the Big Bang, but 'before' wouldn't mean the same thing as what we conventionally mean by 'before'. Nevertheless, if there is such a higher-order space, and if we can study it, then it might at some point be possible to discuss 'causes' for the existence of the universe. Right now, though, we just don't have any answers, and worse, we can't even phrase the question in a way that's meaningful and consistent with what we already know. So it's simply not a point of discussion. Except among string theorists, but they take the existence of some 23 undetectable dimensions a priori.

[AmaLynn]

Post Merge: July 18, 2010, 05:10:52 PM
My mother is pretty religious, devout Roman Catholic (ew). When I told her I didn't believe, she goes "well god believes in you". Pretty disrespectful. She wants me to listen to her point of view, but refuses to listen to mine and she thinks that's okay.
[/quote]

When I told my dad that I'm Wiccan, he said the same thing. I just wanted so hard to deck him right in the face. That would have felt so good. But I didn't, cuz I have self control like that

[justmeinoz]

Depends what sort  of Theist.  A Quaker for example, yes.  A Salafist Muslim? no way.

[Jenna_Nicole105]

I would date a theist.  There are enough people who would have a problem dating me as it is.  I don't need to add an ideological filter.

This!

[PaRaDeaD]

I would be willing to try. But I'm fairly sure it would not work. I personally cannot comperehend how anyone would believe there is a god(s). The lack of evidence is just so obvious and the whole idea is completely illogical and irrational. Also, I feel the subject is unavoidable.

[VeryGnawty]

The lack of evidence is just so obvious and the whole idea is completely illogical and irrational.

Of course, "God" as defined by mainstream Christianity is completely illogical.  "God" is illogical because of things like the Problem of Evil, the omnipotence problem, etc.

Frankly, I'd date just about anyone who held to logic, regardless of what conclusions they have come to using it.  I don't really care what someone believes in, I just care that it is actually reasonable.  An omnipotent being who allows suffering to exist is only logical to the point that such a being is malicious.  However, I have never met a Christian who will admit that their god is malicious.

[Maddie Secutura]

Christians will also tell you "The wisdom of God is foolishness to man."  Faith doesn't give you the answers, it keeps you from asking the questions.  It keeps people from thinking critically.  I won't go so far as to say those with faith are incapable of critical thinking, they're just out of practice. 

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

[~RoadToTrista~]

I wouldn't mind as long as they didn't try to convert me or something.