People you knew before T giving you a harder time than 'new' people? Stealth?

[Riannah]

So... I went to the dentist today. I've been his client for more than 15 years so he's probable seen me changing during the past years but we never spoke about it. He's an older man and a little conservative. I was in his chair this afternoon when he spoke about me with his assistent and referred to me as 'he'. His assistant was like 'WHO???'. He didn't really respond to that. I felt bad and good at the same time, hehe. I didn't make a deal out of it because I was nervous enough as it was about the treatment I was about to get. Just get it over with! I also kinda forgave him because I can see where he's coming from. He's kind of sweet, in his own conservative and stiff way, lol. I've been living ft for a year now, in my own way, and the only people that still refer to me as 'he' are people that have known me longer. I did have a chat with his assistant afterwards and she would make a note about it and she was very sweet. I don't like being referred to as he by him but I HATE to see many shocked faces in a crowded waiting room if he calls me as Sir.. It has happened last year.. Anyway, the assistant, she's a cool lady. I've always liked her. I can sense we have some kind of connection and I think we could become friends very easily. In fact, I think I will invite her over for dinner or something next time I see her.

I've had so many experiences the past 2 years that prove to me that the people that I've known for a longer time see me differently than the people I've not known that long or people I would meet now. People I already knew observe me, they see changes, but they don't see me as I am now, for some reason. Not like strangers do anyway. I am starting to understand the need of going stealth, I think. Dealing with all of this seems to be a battle that can't be won. At this point I can still deal with it all, but I can sooo imagine that there will be point that I am totally done with dealing with sh*t like this. Even with friends I notice that they somehow make it difficult for me to transition. Don't get me wrong, my friends are great, but for some reason I just feel that they have a hard time dealing with my changes. One friend in particular, who at first appeared to be the most understanding and accepting of all. I just think that people don't really understand what it means to transition, the impact that it has socially, etc. I mean, for me it is about much more than just looks. I know what I can and can't do because I feel the social pressure. I never expected all of this either, but I am experiencing it, and I am trying to fit in and I'll do whatever I need to do. I guess in the end transitioning is a very lonely thing. Difficult to understand for others, and I don't blame them for it. It seems almost impossible to explain how it all works to friends and family etc.

My question really is: if people you knew before transititiong are giving you a hard time one way or another, do you 'get rid of them' or do you put up with their sh*t?

Are the things I mentioned usually the reasons for people to go stealth? At this point it's not like I don't want anyone to know that I was born male, but I AM getting tired of how it all goes with people that knew me before. It all seems to be so more easy with 'new' people?

[stealth2010]

I moved to the West Coats shortly after I began transitioning, there are a handful of people I knew while I was still being read as trans that I run into. If I can, I avoid them as i don't feel comfortable being around anyone who might mis-gender me. If the dentist incident happened to me, I would have probably walked out.

[JessicaR]

I can sooo identify with you!

  I gave friends and family a long time period to try and adapt to my transition. At first, I would gently remind them that I expected feminine pronouns and for them to use my new name. I also explained myself repeatedly (this isn't a choice, I'm not gay, I've always felt this way, etc.) and tried to be as gentle as I could about it. What I noticed is that some went along for the ride with me but some relationships were so rooted in gender that they couldn't survive. There are also a few who are quite aware of what transsexuality is but use incorrect pronouns as their own little protest platform, refusing to change the way they refer to you. There are even folks who have no clue that you are hurt by the wrong words... Regardless, they should at least be given the opportunity to set things right. Don't let an incident like the one at your dentist's office go unchallenged!
  What I started doing is putting the question to them... "Is there a reason why you're not referring to me as, "she?"" That way isn't too aggressive and worked most of the time for me.  At work, things were a bit different.. once I changed my name I explained to HR that pronoun slips in front of customers could put me in real danger. I started reporting "slips" that I considered intentional to them and they were dealt with swiftly.

A real conversation with a coworker:
Coworker: I'm sorry, I just can't call you, "Jess."
Me: But that's my name, now..
Coworker: I'm sorry but you're still the same person to me...
Me: Ok.. that's fine... but now I see you in a different light so, from now on,  I'm going to refer to you as, "Buttercup." ..... and you know I will... repeatedly

....long pause...

Coworker: Never mind, Jess.


  I've learned that most people, even those closest to us, do not and most likely will never understand what we are. Lots don't care... To some, acknowledging that we're our true gender somehow threatens their sense of security... "If "he" wasn't really a man all this time, what does that mean for anything else I see as concrete?"  I feel that even those that are closest to me lack the ability to completely understand. I lost my best friend of 30+ years at the beginning of transition and I still miss him. I've lost a large portion of my extended family. The reality is that I'm not the person they knew... He's dead and they miss him. If they can't accept me then I'll move on without them. I can't be expected to be one person for them and another person for me and the rest of the world... it just doesn't work that way. I, personally, don't put up with their bull****  anymore... If they won't acknowledge me, I don't acknowledge them..... their loss ....

[Nicky]

I already have that. Publicly I seem to pass just fine as a woman. But to the people I know, a lot of them don't seem to see it.

Like my uncle introduced me to someone as his nephew and calls me boy, and this guy was looking at me and I could see him thinking wtf!??

Not that I see this sort of thing as ->-bleeped-<-. If my uncle started to correct people to get them to call me he that would be a different story. As it is it just makes him look weird.

It seems to be more the people that see you every week. I have bumped into friends from a couple years ago and all of them took some time to recognise who I was.

Mmm, I think don't put up with it but don't run away either, just let people know your preference. They can think what they like, but does it really matter if they treat you appropriately? Anyway, that works for me, it may not work for you.

[Cruelladeville]

*I'm sorry but you're still the same person to me*

This one makes me larf.....sadly most folk are just soooo dumb & narrow minded....that they just don't get that we are all 'changed' people....as time moves slowly/quickly on......

Bodies when looked up close and microscopic are like fountains......they dance....

So every 8 years or so (technically) you are in fact someone very (physically) different....

This is why female hormones always have some sort of affect.....I've been on them for over a decade and I'm still changing......and even if I was off them I still would change...

But I can sympathise with you on this one, as early on when fully living as an attractive woman my old aunts and uncles, (I come from an immensely catholic focused Irish gene based family)....one in particular would always refer to me as 'he'....it is hurtful....and a killer if there are people present not aware of your past.

My hunch? They were unsettled, troubled by the presence of me.... as you become a living embodiment of the transience and lie of what many think is a god fixed two sex ordered world = male + female.

Catholics like uber-order....and by hanging onto an old prefix it gives them a handle to imagine there is stability in this world....approved by the Lord Almighty of course...(a cosy paternal male one at that) *s->-bleeped-<-s*

(There isn't...it's a joyous cauldron of twitching atoms)

Dump people that haven't got the intelligence and kindness of heart to treat you with respect....

And if you can't due to work or family non-avoidable pressures...pity them....smile sincerely and use the wrong prefix back on them...

They'll soon get the picture....

[rejennyrated]

... And if you can't due to work or family non-avoidable pressures...pity them....smile sincerely and use the wrong prefix back on them...

They'll soon get the picture....

Done that many a time in the distant past... you know what? Like Cruella say's if you do it right and with a faintly ironic smile and a wink - it usually works after a couple of goes.

Better than that though I find now that after well over two decades postop I no longer really care or indeed even bother to notice what people are calling me. It's so long since someone willfully got it wrong that it has kind of dropped off the radar I guess. When I'm introduced i always say "I'm Jenny, but I'll answer to most things as long as they aren't rude" and I mean it.

Indeed as I have, on occasion been honored by being invited out with a bunch of navy lads for a "bad boys evening" under those circumstances I felt it an honor when I was accidentally "he'd" (and by someone who didn't know my past) cos it meant that I had made the grade and been admitted to their normally female free club! I am completely secure in my female identity so I can enjoy playing along, kind of having a night off from good behaviour . The guy who did it first was all set to apologise, but I just winked at him and smiled and since then it has kind of become a standing joke in that group. For some men ironically it's the biggest compliment they can bestow on a woman.

Happily I also get to go out on plenty of girly nights out and to WI coffee mornings and there I am of course resolutely she. So as long as it isn't malicious I just roll with it - and use it to my social advantage.

In my social group there are some people who know my past and others who very evidently don't. It doesn't bother me, but one of the nicest compliments I ever had from someone who did know was when I was lamenting the fact that the nearest I came to being a mother was fostering for a friend, and she asked me about why hadn't I ever chosen to get pregnant, then remembered and laughed saying "funnily enough because you are always so relaxed about it all I tend to forget that you weren't born this way."

[lilacwoman]

get rid of them and move on.
you have a right to be seen and treated in your new self.
however I am assuming that you have written to this dentist and the doctor, taxman, utilities, bank etc telling them you have transitioned and have a new name?
If you haven't taken this step then people will think you are just a guy who is a little queer.

[Sarah B]

Hi Riannah

Nobody knows about me, where I work and live, so I do not have any problems with people addressing me incorrectly, because I'm a very private person and that is the way I prefer things.

After leaving my friends and family, over 21 years ago.  I never had the problem with the wrong pronouns with friends, because I never caught up with them again. 

Approximately 2 years after having surgery,  I started to catch up with family members one at a time (They found out about me from an uncle of mine).  When I did, I said to them I will only answer to my correct name and totally ignore anything else.  In a sense because of this the pronouns took care of themselves.  I never really had any problems with my family addressing me correctly.

What you need to do is inform your dentist politely to address you correctly.  If not then you need to find another dentist and the reason why you should do this is because you said it yourself you HATE the look on peoples faces when it happens.  Which also means they see you as a female.

However, Lilacwoman has also basically summed up what you should do.  Get rid of those who do not address you correctly after giving them an ultimatum to do so, you have the right to be addressed how you wish to be.  Also ensure that you paper work in regards to your name change has been taken care of, else people will address you incorrectly and from what you have said in your post, you don't like being addressed incorrectly in fact you are beginning to hate it more and more.

Kind regards
Sarah B

[Riannah]

get rid of them and move on.
you have a right to be seen and treated in your new self.
however I am assuming that you have written to this dentist and the doctor, taxman, utilities, bank etc telling them you have transitioned and have a new name?
If you haven't taken this step then people will think you are just a guy who is a little queer.

No, I haven't written anyone to tell I am transitioning (I haven't transitioned yet, I'm ft for about a year but pre-hormones for another week..). I started changing my presentation about two years ago, but so gradually that I never even thought about letting people know that I am transitioning. I never really had any kind of plan, it all just sort of happened and I grew into things. I the beginning I didn't really care how people would call me or what they would think. I was being mam'ed a lot sooner than I'd expected. It started right away actually, two years ago. I wasn't even wearing female clothing at the time. Looking back I think I deliberately chose to change gradually. Partly out of fear and insecurity and partly because I wanted to find out how people would respond to the subtle changes. I never would have thought that the social impact would be so overwhelming and would happen so quickly. I've rarely been called sir or he by a stranger the past year. This must all sound like I pass well, but really I don't as far as I'm concerned. I do think that there's something I must be doing right, I just don't know what it is hehe. It took me more than a year to not be surprised every time I was mam'ed. It's what I wanted, of course, I just never expected it to happen so easily. I have almost gone nuts over trying to find out if people mam'ed me because they assumed that's what I wanted or if they really thought I was female. Well, I never found out. Too many people, with too many different views.

I think I subconsciously did things the way I did because I wanted to find out 'how far I could make it' without hormones etc. I never really questioned my true gender, but I wasn't very sure about living my life as transwoman. I now know that there is no way that I could go back to who/how I was, but realising that I've come this far without hormones etc. has given me enough strenght to be ready for the medical part of transitioning.

Oh yeah, that's also something I wanted to mention. Another reason why I never informed anyone about my transition was because I thought it would be so much nicer if people would start using the correct pronouns by themselves, without me asking them do so (to me telling people that they should call me female is a bit like telling people to call me handsome, they might call me handsome, but I don't think it would make me feel handsome, hehe). Well, no problems at all with strangers, just with some of the people I've known longer. Such as my dentist.

I guess the time is right now to inform those who still need to be informed so that they will also addres me correctly. And, as Sarah B said, giving ultimatums to those who then still not address me correctly. Or just kill them, lol.

I have one neighbour, a 75 yo woman, who I talk to a lot. Eventhough she knows I HATE it, she keeps menioning my old name and he to others. She did it today to new neighbours (who are muslims) and who live right next to me! There goes my chance of EVER being seen as woman by them.. I swear I could have strangled her.. I've corrected her many many times, but it just doesn't help. It's always 'a mistake' and 'yeah sorry'. She just never gets it right or presents it as a joke, which is possibly even more annoying. She is very cool with me transitioning though and I'm able to speak to her about it quite well. I just don't know what to say to her anymore to make her understand how important it is to use the correct pronouns, and that it can even be dangerous if she gives me away, and that it can hunt me for years and years. Besides moving, any advise?

I think I will go stealth at some point in my transition by the way.

[lilacwoman]

you haven't transitioned but you're fulltime for a year?
you are as mixed up about yourself as the people who mix up your pronouns.
do everyone a favour and get those letters written...it really will make things easier - if only be letting you know which people to cut out of your life.

[Riannah]

you haven't transitioned but you're fulltime for a year?
you are as mixed up about yourself as the people who mix up your pronouns.
do everyone a favour and get those letters written...it really will make things easier - if only be letting you know which people to cut out of your life.

The way we speak about transition here, transitioned would mean after srs. What do you consider transitioned?

[Cruelladeville]

Nope... I lived for two years plus as a woman, with legal name change, work, social life et al it was a prerequisite for getting through to the SRS stage...

So that the gender team monitoring me...knew I had a good chance at my new life...

Though was warned it would hit my income levels.... women typically earn less than men....yous sees...

So transition is when you dump the male personae for good.... no surgery needed as such... in my case...

(Though i did have chicken-silicone fillets in ma bra of course pre my BA)

[JessicaR]

I think the one thing that bothered me most about your story is your 75 year old neighbor... Lots of people take it easy on elderly ignorance but to me, being a nitwit is being a nitwit, regardless of age. What's worse is that she knows what you're going through; she just doesn't take you seriously. "Oh, that's right sweetie, your trans-something... I'll remember next time" (smiles and pats you on the head)

  I say dump a hive of angry bees in her yard the next time she calls you, "he."

[Riannah]

Does anybody have a sample letter they can and want to show me? I think I know what to write, but it would be good to compare with other letters to see if I didn't forget anything or give away too much and to see if I explain myself right. I don't think I should go into details too much about transitioning, because I think the more I tell, the less they will understand. I think it's very difficult to explain transition to people who hasn't been through it anyway.

I think the one thing that bothered me most about your story is your 75 year old neighbor... Lots of people take it easy on elderly ignorance but to me, being a nitwit is being a nitwit, regardless of age. What's worse is that she knows what you're going through; she just doesn't take you seriously. "Oh, that's right sweetie, your trans-something... I'll remember next time" (smiles and pats you on the head)

  I say dump a hive of angry bees in her yard the next time she calls you, "he."

LOL.

I'm bothered by it a lot too. Especially when she does it when there's other people around. The initial reason why I asked friends etc. to start using my female name etc. last year was because I noticed it would get so akward if they wouldn't when there were other people around. She knows that. Calling me he in front of new neighbours is unforgivable. It can't be fixed. It just makes me want to move. I plan on moving anyway, but want to be as far in the process as possible before I do. That takes time.

Besides writing dentist, bank, etc. I'm now thinking of writing a letter to some family members and some others (including my neighbour) too. Do you think that's a good idea? I'm thinking that this may help in making them realise that this is serious. I don't see how they can't already realise that this is serious because they know that I have to go the hospital for my transition quite often, but anyway.. Maybe a letter will make it look more official and serious somehow. I will stop talking to those who still don't get it after they read the letter. My neighbour but also some others sometimes give me the feeling that this is all a big game or something that I'm playing. I'm sick of that, so I want to be pro-active to get things right, do what is neccessary, and move on.

Another nice anecdote about my neighbour.. Two months ago a package was delivered at my house. I opened the door, signed for the package, everything fine, no strange looks or whatsoever. The guy walks back to his car, runs into my neighbour and she asks him 'was HE at home?'. She sometimes signs for my packages when I'm not at home, so she wanted to make sure that I had the package.. The guy then asks her: 'He? Was that a woman or a man?'.................. Did the guy have doubts about me before my neighbour mentioned HE? Maybe. For me that is not so important. I was having normal social interaction with him and there wasn't a single sign that he was questioning my gender, but even if he was questioning me without showing it, that would have been fine with me.

@Cruelladeville: thanks for explaining that. I guess I have transitioned

Also want to add that english isn't my first language so I sometimes have a bit of a hard time to express myself and find the right words. It's taking me ages to write a post, lol.
Post Merge: July 29, 2010, 07:53:40 AM
LOL just thought of something while walking around in my house. She lives right below me and I have a laminate floor.. From now on it will be HIGH HEELS ONLY :d

[lilacwoman]

the letter I got from DR Russell Reid was on his letterhead and said:

This is to confirm that 'lilacwoman' is undergoing transition from male to female and wearing female dress and taking hormones is part of this process.


simple and to the point.

but of course in Uk and most of Europe we are protected from sex discrimination and also we have strong Hate Crime laws too.
Post Merge: July 29, 2010, 02:02:16 PM
well the thing about writing to everyone and telling them you're transitioning is a bit iffy as you don't know if you are and it coudl get awafully confusinga nd embarrassing if you decide you are ONLY a CD or TV...
you need help form an expert
Post Merge: July 29, 2010, 03:04:28 PM
I take transition to mean when we throw out all the old clothes and image and go fulltime as the opposite.

[Riannah]

the letter I got from DR Russell Reid was on his letterhead and said:

This is to confirm that 'lilacwoman' is undergoing transition from male to female and wearing female dress and taking hormones is part of this process.


simple and to the point.

but of course in Uk and most of Europe we are protected from sex discrimination and also we have strong Hate Crime laws too.
Post Merge: July 29, 2010, 02:02:16 PM
well the thing about writing to everyone and telling them you're transitioning is a bit iffy as you don't know if you are and it coudl get awafully confusinga nd embarrassing if you decide you are ONLY a CD or TV...
you need help form an expert
Post Merge: July 29, 2010, 03:04:28 PM
I take transition to mean when we throw out all the old clothes and image and go fulltime as the opposite.

Hmmm thanks. I will ask my gender clinic for advise and letters, before I start writing my own.

I don't know if I'm transitioning? I thought we had just agreed that I already transitioned a year ago Now you are confusing me hehehe

And yeah that could be confusing and embarassing I suppose. I threw out my old clothes more than a year ago and will get my first hormone shot next tuesday. I feel confident enough to send out those letter now but there is always a chance that the hormones don't feel right, I guess. I doubt it, but it's not entirely impossible I think. Perhaps wait a month or two?

[Inamorata]

It's an obvious situation. People who knew you before will call you 'him' and do it because they know your past. Any new friends or people you meet see you as you are now and will call you 'she'.

NB

[Dinky_Di]

It's an obvious situation. People who knew you before will call you 'him' and do it because they know your past. Any new friends or people you meet see you as you are now and will call you 'she'.

That's how I found it though these days all from the past now call me she.  I gave people from the past a period of grace and then started correcting them.  Now there is only two people I allow to refer to me in a male pronoun, my daughters who still call me dad, although only in private.

[JessicaR]

Lots of bees..... and camel spiders.....  Shake them up in a bag before you release them in her car.

  I have to give you credit because you have much more patience than I do... I would have seriously thrown a kiniption on that woman by now.

[Riannah]

It's an obvious situation. People who knew you before will call you 'him' and do it because they know your past. Any new friends or people you meet see you as you are now and will call you 'she'.

NB

I guess. Don't know how long I can take it anymore to be called he/him anymore though by people I knew before. It feels like they draw me back to who I was, instead of allowing me to be who I am now and to become who I need to become.
Post Merge: July 30, 2010, 04:20:46 AM

That's how I found it though these days all from the past now call me she.  I gave people from the past a period of grace and then started correcting them.  Now there is only two people I allow to refer to me in a male pronoun, my daughters who still call me dad, although only in private.

Isn't that confusing for you to be called dad, even if it is only in private? Or was it your own wish to be called dad by your daughters? I don't have kids, but I think I can sort of understand it if that was your wish, perhaps especially for your daughters sake.
Post Merge: July 30, 2010, 05:24:44 AM

Lots of bees..... and camel spiders.....  Shake them up in a bag before you release them in her car.

  I have to give you credit because you have much more patience than I do... I would have seriously thrown a kiniption on that woman by now.

Yeahhh well, running out of patience here hehe