The Beautiful People

[Constance]

And, no, I don't mean that song by Marilyn Manson. I mean folks whom I've seen where it was not possible at all for me to guess their sex and as a result, they were beautiful to me.

So far, there have been at least 2 that I can think of off-hand.

I used to see a person at a bus stop in San Francisco in the early '90's. They were slight of build, tall, had short hair, and a somewhat angular jaw. Their baggy clothes hid any curves or suggestion of such. Something about the shape of the face made me think bio-female but I couldn't be certain.

The second was someone I used to see jogging while I was on my way to work in Mountain View a few years ago. This person was bald, somewhat roly-poly, and their chest would bounce as they ran. This could have been loose pectoral muscles or breasts; I couldn't tell. The overall body shape made me think bio-male, but again I couldn't be certain.

Then in between, in the late '90's, I used to see a person at a CalTrain station here in San Mateo. This person always dressed in long flowing black clothes. Sometimes, it was an ankle-length dress, sometimes it would be a simple black shirt/blouse and clearly women's slacks, and always black flats. Their thick dark brown hair was a bit more than shoulder length, and the mustache and goatee were quite full. This suggested bio-male to me, and also suggested that this particular person was extremely brave.

Reflecting on these beautiful people, I wonder why I had been trying to guess their sex. Really, what does it matter? I think it must be partially instinctual to try to classify people, though I don't understand why. I'm still trying to unlearn this reflex.

[insideontheoutside]

I'm going to respond to this with some lovely visual examples! Does it matter what's under the clothes? Hell no.

[tekla]

Does it matter what's under the clothes?

Well yeah, it does, in a number of ways, and for a number of reasons - not all good, holy or pure.  But by the same token, if all it takes is clothes, then life is nothing more than a fashion show, and most of us are not exactly supermodels struttin' the catwalk.

[Constance]

Well yeah, it does, in a number of ways, and for a number of reasons - not all good, holy or pure.  But by the same token, if all it takes is clothes, then life is nothing more than a fashion show, and most of us are not exactly supermodels struttin' the catwalk.

For me, what's under the clothes doesn't matter. But, that's just me.

For me, it's what's in the heart (or between the ears) that matters.

[insideontheoutside]

Does it matter what's under the clothes?

Well yeah, it does, in a number of ways, and for a number of reasons - not all good, holy or pure.  But by the same token, if all it takes is clothes, then life is nothing more than a fashion show, and most of us are not exactly supermodels struttin' the catwalk.

Well, since the topic was more about APPEARANCES ... what's under your clothes should only matter to you and who you're being intimate with, not the whole freakin' world. Also, all the people posted are androgynous ... and THAT in itself is a beautiful thing, not what their wearing. Point missed. Sorry.

[Pica Pica]

I don't find them particularly attractive, they are too spiky.

[Constance]

Well, since the topic was more about APPEARANCES ... what's under your clothes should only matter to you and who you're being intimate with, not the whole freakin' world. Also, all the people posted are androgynous ... and THAT in itself is a beautiful thing, not what their wearing. Point missed. Sorry.

My point was that of androgynous eye candy. Or, what I found to be androgynous eye candy among the people who I've seen.

[Elijah3291]

yea for me it doesnt matter whats under the clothes, if I am attracted to them, then I am attracted to them

[LilDoberman]

 <--- Likes the eye candy.

Back to the original though, I think it's human nature to classify.  Our brains are just wired that way (either through biology or society, probably the former to a huge degree) and it's very hard to not think that way.

[Constance]

Being in a committed, long-term relationship, the level of attraction is not really important to me. These persons could be of the sweetest eye candy, and they would still have nothing to offer me.

That said, I appreciate what I consider to be beautiful, be it people, artwork, sunrises, sunsets, the list goes ever on.

[no_id]

Hmmm I've also wondered about that instinct thing where we always try to classify someone. First there's just the options male/female and I've noticed that over the years I've added the options transman/transwoman - oh yes I do even distinguish there...

Otherwise, I often have a hard time finding androgynous appearing folk attractive since there always seem to be this commercial (pop) element involved...

[Kinkly]

Some people find beauty in what they see, for others looks don't matter at all. I for 1 don't find the way someone looks as attractive in itself but If I see someone and have the thought "Wow they really know how to express themselves" I will consider that as attractive and be interested in geting to know them but it is more about how they express themselves then if they are physically "beautiful I experence beauty everywhere especially from people who the world (society) would class as ugly or disabled or a freak because The beauty I see is much deeper then skin deep and is almost totally dependent on personality rather then looks I didn't find any of the pics beautiful because the poses were just that, people trying to look good for a Camera.  not that there is anything wrong with that, it just doesn't do anything for me.
I don't think I automatically label someone as 1 gender or another somethimes I see something and think wow but I don't feel the need to label their gender

[Constance]

I know what you mean about visible versus invisible beauty. Some of the most visually impressive people I've met are truly ugly on the inside.

[Kinkly]

I know what you mean about visible versus invisible beauty. Some of the most visually impressive people I've met are truly ugly on the inside.

exactly I found I can see the inner beauty almost as easily as the outer (visible) beauty of people I much prefer the inner to the outer.

[Fenrir]

I know what you mean, people who defy the categories of male and female... truly beautiful. I envy them, they got lucky with their bone structure! 
I think this need to classify people into male and female (it's generally the first question on any survey or thing you sign up to) comes a lot from our language, actually. We refer to people as 'he' or 'she' and it can make people feel uncomfortable to not know how to refer to someone. Plus, if you get it wrong, you can cause offence. It's not usually like that with a lot of other, more apparent things (like mistaken ethnicity?) but nevertheless, it happens.
I'm not on my own computer, otherwise I would find pictures of less gothy androgynous people to post for you, Pica!

[ilanthefirst]

I think someone on Genderfork.com summed this up really well: "I think of myself as neither male nor female, but I still try to figure out if other androgynous people are biologically male or female. I annoy myself with my hypocrisy." (from http://genderfork.com/2010/i-annoy-myself/)

Though it doesn't make any difference to me, I do it, too, and I find it flattering when others reveal they were doing the same to me.  I think there's something very attractive about mystery, but people always try to figure out as much as they can even when they know it will spoil any surprises. 

[Pica Pica]

I'm not on my own computer, otherwise I would find pictures of less gothy androgynous people to post for you, Pica!

Just sort of roundy and soft'll do.

[ilanthefirst]

A little off-topic, but Pica Pica's reply reminds me to ask, why is it that so many people associate androgyny with being thin?  It's just another thing that I think is wrong that I catch myself doing anyway; I didn't notice I even fell into that trap until I read this (yes, another) quote from Genderfork: "I want to be more thin and lean partly because I want to appear more androgynous. But it's f**ked up that I associate thinness with androgyny." (http://genderfork.com/2010/partly-because/)  My only guess as to an answer is that sex hormones dictate where fat is deposited on the body, so those with more body fat might have more trouble appearing androgynous.  Ideas?

[Pica Pica]

Seems a pretty reasonable reason - a thin person does look sexless - but so does a skeleton.

[PixieBoy]

The 'thin = androgynous' idea is what gave me an eating disorder. I wanted to get rid of the feminine fat and, well, be beautiful. To me, seeing the ribs and other bones underneath the skin was beautiful. Now I've changed and just wanna lose some weight to be a bit less fat.